[8.0] Battle of Azeroth Fury discussion thread

[Silvereyes1372]

I know you probably don't understand it, but having it on a 3 mins cooldown means they can shift power in the rest of our abilities again. As long as we have a CD as powerful than BC on a 1 min cooldown, we will always deal shit damage outside of it.

Still dont like it , fury's strengh is short cd especially for pack , having only one big cd would be a mess for M+

[Deleted]

As long as we have a CD as powerful than BC on a 1 min cooldown, we will always deal shit damage outside of it.

Unrivaled Strength is gone, odyn's fury is gone, odyn's champion is gone, helya's wrath is gone, convergence is gone. That's a 60% nerf to BC from live to BFA alpha.

In the current alpha, BC is not the strongest cooldown, not even close.

[Zombie422]

Having played on Alpha last couple days, I got used to the change with GCDs during combat as annoying as it is.
It makes combat feel a bit clunky when wanting to use CDs.
My main pain point, however, are utility CDs like Heroic Leap and Commanding Shout. These two are about "Sheeet!!" CDs and are meant to help us in last second situations. As it currently stands you need to stop your rotation in order to leap, you need to wait to charge back (no longer possible to save yourself from being thrown away).

If they let Charge, Heroic Leap and Commanding Shout off of GCD that will be enough of a change for me to be satisfied..

[Montegomery]

I'm still waiting for any communication from Blizzard as to their intent and plan for Fury. Right now we're losing the following:

• Every Artifact Trait, in particular:
  
  • Odyn's Fury
  • Bonus Crit Damage during Recklessness
  • Extra Rage from Raging Blow crits
  • Odyn's Champion
  • Juggernaut
• Substantial Rage Generation or Mechanics from Legendaries
• Quality of Life from GCD changes
• 50% Auto-Attack Speed while Enraged
• Auto-Attack Critical Strike Chance from Recklessness
• Convergence of Fates
• Set Bonuses

So most of what makes Fury play the way it does is going out the window. There's arguably nothing inherently wrong with that, the problem is we don't have any word from Blizzard as to their intended direction for the spec. Do they think Fury doesn't need any of the tools and mechanics which made it what it was in Legion? Do they feel that +1 second on Recklessness, +2 seconds on Enrage, and +5% stacking Bloodthirst Crit chance on Furious Slash are sufficient changes to offset everything lost from Legion? Are they planning to take another stab at the Fantasy they failed to realize in Legion?

It's very difficult to give useful feedback right now because there's essentially no framework upon which to build.

[potis]

I'm still waiting for any communication from Blizzard as to their intent and plan for Fury. Right now we're losing the following:

• Every Artifact Trait, in particular:
  
  • Odyn's Fury
  • Bonus Crit Damage during Recklessness
  • Extra Rage from Raging Blow crits
  • Odyn's Champion
  • Juggernaut
• Substantial Rage Generation or Mechanics from Legendaries
• Quality of Life from GCD changes
• 50% Auto-Attack Speed while Enraged
• Auto-Attack Critical Strike Chance from Recklessness
• Convergence of Fates
• Set Bonuses

So most of what makes Fury play the way it does is going out the window. There's arguably nothing inherently wrong with that, the problem is we don't have any word from Blizzard as to their intended direction for the spec. Do they think Fury doesn't need any of the tools and mechanics which made it what it was in Legion? Do they feel that +1 second on Recklessness, +2 seconds on Enrage, and +5% stacking Bloodthirst Crit chance on Furious Slash are sufficient changes to offset everything lost from Legion? Are they planning to take another stab at the Fantasy they failed to realize in Legion?

It's very difficult to give useful feedback right now because there's essentially no framework upon which to build.

All Fury needs is a proper way to cleave without requiring 5 things to do what other classes do with 1 or 2.

Odyn's Fury was the way for burst, but since its probably not gonna be there, we just need the way Fury Cleave works to change.

This whole pre-Enraged, Whirlwind first for other abilities to barely do any noticeable damage, which after awhile it becomes worthless in 99% of the content cause the other classes cleave shit down before you do anything. (Not talking about Warcraftlogs, or M+25 here, just general fun of the spec).

The 6 second Enrage needs to stay, as long as that stays the spec can be enjoyable, they just need to really introduce better ways of cleaving since i dont see the GCD changes going anywhere, they will probably remain.

With 220ms (US servers for Alpha T_T), and the pathetic 16% haste from predetermined gear with Carnage i can still maintain something like 80%+ Enrage uptime on the target dummy with the changes, which means the Enrage change is literally, at least for myself, 50% of what needed to change, the other 50% is the pathetic cleaving that shouldnt be focused around:

Battle Cry and Odyn's Fury every - depending on content- 2 or 10 packs, its simply not fun when half the other classes are literally "YOLO MY SPEC IS MORE FLUID, FUCK YOU FURY WARRIOR"

Again, this isnt about Warcraftlogs or raid spots cause first on DPS or anything competitive, its simply how the spec plays, when i log onto pretty much anything else that cleaves passively or cleaves always every second pack, is much more enjoyable to play than my Fury Warrior.

[Jngizu]

I proposed a change to Avatar a few posts ago, but I really feel like that plus giving us Bladestorm as baseline again would solve a ton of issues with Fury. We lost BS because it was too strong coupled with OF. Now that we lost OF, give it back to us.

That way, we solve the issue of Fury being completely revolving around BC (Reck), and we keep a good AoE burst, which was always a huge strength of TG Fury.

[Jastall]

Bladestorm could be workable again now that Enrage lasts 6 seconds. It would still be slightly awkward because you'd need to trigger Enrage first. Also you'd still want to chain it with Battle C- dammit, Recklessness anyway.

[Jngizu]

So with the change to Bloodbath it looks like we''ll go BB+BS in M+? That might be even more AoE burst than on live.

[Seramore]

So with the change to Bloodbath it looks like we''ll go BB+BS in M+? That might be even more AoE burst than on live.

There's literally no way to tell yet, Fury changes are still super early.

[Deleted]

BB change purpose is to replace odyn fury obviously. But the 40 sec cd make it awkward. (old was 30 sec with a 1 min BC CD as a reminder)
Blizzard doesn't want to give anything to fury war without taking something it seems.

[Montegomery]

All Fury needs is a proper way to cleave without requiring 5 things to do what other classes do with 1 or 2.

Odyn's Fury was the way for burst, but since its probably not gonna be there, we just need the way Fury Cleave works to change.

This whole pre-Enraged, Whirlwind first for other abilities to barely do any noticeable damage, which after awhile it becomes worthless in 99% of the content cause the other classes cleave shit down before you do anything. (Not talking about Warcraftlogs, or M+25 here, just general fun of the spec).

The 6 second Enrage needs to stay, as long as that stays the spec can be enjoyable, they just need to really introduce better ways of cleaving since i dont see the GCD changes going anywhere, they will probably remain.

With 220ms (US servers for Alpha T_T), and the pathetic 16% haste from predetermined gear with Carnage i can still maintain something like 80%+ Enrage uptime on the target dummy with the changes, which means the Enrage change is literally, at least for myself, 50% of what needed to change, the other 50% is the pathetic cleaving that shouldnt be focused around:

Battle Cry and Odyn's Fury every - depending on content- 2 or 10 packs, its simply not fun when half the other classes are literally "YOLO MY SPEC IS MORE FLUID, FUCK YOU FURY WARRIOR"

Again, this isnt about Warcraftlogs or raid spots cause first on DPS or anything competitive, its simply how the spec plays, when i log onto pretty much anything else that cleaves passively or cleaves always every second pack, is much more enjoyable to play than my Fury Warrior.

I hear you on the cleave stuff, but I don't think that's the only thing that's wrong with Fury.

I'd actually posit the longer Enrage timer is a problem. Once we're one raid tier into the expansion Enrage will be an afterthought, and so our only meaningful gameplay is going to be the Inner Rage rotation, briefly broken up every minute or so by Recklessness. With everything we've lost from artifacts, legendaries, and the like, the beta currently feels like playing Fury in slow motion.

A big part of what made Fury in Legion fun, in raids at least, was how frequently Battle Cry shook things up. Its cooldown has effectively doubled in BfA, and that's a part (though not the whole) of why Beta Fury feels practically slothful compared to Live.

[f3llyn]

The rage generation part of Reckless Abandon is being baked into Recklessness it looks like.

[Seramore]

The rage generation part of Reckless Abandon is being baked into Recklessness it looks like.

Doubt it, it's probably just the way the tooltip will read once you have RA talented. It said this when the first Alpha build came out, too. I'll check once the servers are up to date with the new build (it was pulled because of a huge memory issue), but again I doubt it's baseline.

[f3llyn]

Doubt it, it's probably just the way the tooltip will read once you have RA talented. It said this when the first Alpha build came out, too. I'll check once the servers are up to date with the new build (it was pulled because of a huge memory issue), but again I doubt it's baseline.

Maybe, but they made a kind of similar change to Avatar for prot (at least according to the notes), where it has a rage generation component to it now, too.

I'm hopeful but blizzard doesn't seem to like warriors so you're probably right.

So if this is an actual real change I wonder what they're gonna replace the talent with.

[Seramore]

Maybe, but they made a kind of similar change to Avatar for prot (at least according to the notes), where it has a rage generation component to it now, too.

I'm hopeful but blizzard doesn't seem to like warriors so you're probably right.

So if this is an actual real change I wonder what they're gonna replace the talent with.

Avatar will (or should) have a rage generation aspect to Fury as well, it's part of some of the changes to the ability like was mentioned in the Q&A last week. Whether it's a final change or not is unknown, they could be potentially be messing around with a handful of other potential changes to the ability in future builds.

- - - Updated - - -

As an update, I was right. RA is still the same as a talent. Avatar also generates 20 rage, I'd expect more (or alternative) changes in the future, though.

[Montegomery]

I wouldn't expect more changes unless Fury Warriors in Beta make noise. I would love for Fury to get some changes which aren't directly related to the GCD change, but last we heard from Blizzard they:

• Were "close to finished" with changes to the rotations and look and feel for most specs.
  
  • Specs not included in "most specs": Unholy/Frost DKs and Protection Warriors.
• During Beta, they're going to be focused on how specs interact with the new itemization systems.
• Blizzard may address some feedback on rotations/talents, but not at a level you would call an "overhaul".

Bottom line, nothing is going to change if we just wait around.

[Zephre]

I played fury briefly on the beta and I have some concerns.

With Odyn's fury being gone, what AoE does fury have outside of WW meat cleaver spam? Their AoE seems extremely underwhelming, ST wise it doesn't seem like much has changed at all. Will fury now start using bladestorm so they can at least do something?

[Montegomery]

Archimtiros on Twitter:

Bloodbath dealing damage was brought up as a fix for the GCD change, but it actually makes the problem worse.

Dealing damage breaks the rotational flow. Now Bloodbath needs to be used during Reck, while Enraged, which wastes much of its/Recks duration.

- Before, you would Bloodbath - Reck - Rampage (for Enrage), with Bloodbath overlapping Reck nicely.
- Now, you need to Rampage (Enrage) and use Reck before Bloodbath to buff the damage component, which wastes half the buffs on GCD time, and causes most of BB to fall out of Reck.

Even worse is trying to use Bloodbath together with the already problematic Dragon Roar or Bladestorm, which would be the natural inclination since they're the obvious AoE talents on each tier. Dragon Roar and Bladestorm are still a mess, but we don't need to double down on it.

TLDR: These changes aren't doing anything to address players stacking CDs, it's just making it more awkward, because the spec still has multiple CDs which encourage overlap, but do so poorly. It's quite simply not fun, and the same problem we had in EN before the 7.1 changes.

It's easy: if you don't want us stacking CDs, don't give us so many CDs to stack!

I'm fine either way, but the goal should be a smooth rotation, not an amalgamation of mismatched timers that we hope is tuned well enough to perform in spite of awkward design.

I should clarify, since I've gotten questions:

Completely removing CD stacking isn't the only option. Nothing wrong with reducing the prevalence of CD stacking in general, but also still let some specs stack CDs.

They just need to be able to do so smoothly, and Fury does not.

And RE: Massacre:

"And while I'm on the subject of Fury, do something about Massacre. Requiring a talent to enable mastery and keep the rotation flowing for 20% of the encounter is downright, objectively, poor design - end of story.

Make it baseline, make Execute stack Taste for Blood (Furious Slash buff), make Bloodthirst crit more <20%, I don't really care. The legendary talent ring salvaged Massacre, but without it, the spec takes three steps backwards - which sadly seems to be the theme of Fury in BfA.

[Jastall]

Not much more to add to what Arch said. Fury got a lot of love from items and assorted effects in Legion, from the rage generating legendaries to Convergence and the Soul of the Battlelord which plugged its design gaps. All of it is gone in BfA, and it's going to feel the pain more than most specs come pre-patch/BfA release.

We're back to my demands early in Legion: make Inner Rage baseline, make Massacre baseline (nerf it if necessary) and generally tone down the spec's reliance on burst windows. Also make Furious Slash not hurt my soul to press.

And I fully agree with what he said regarding Bloodbath. It is a very poor replacement for OF, even moreso with the atrocious GCD change. Having to build up rage to Rampage before you can even use your burst AoE over 3 different GCDs will feel bad, especially if Rampage keeps its fixed 1.5s GCD.

But hey, at least Juggernaut is gone so maybe our Execute will hit really hard for more than the last 8% of a fight. And if all else fails, at least Arms look good.

[HolgerDK]

I wouldn't expect more changes unless Fury Warriors in Beta make noise. I would love for Fury to get some changes which aren't directly related to the GCD change, but last we heard from Blizzard they:

• Were "close to finished" with changes to the rotations and look and feel for most specs.
  
  • Specs not included in "most specs": Unholy/Frost DKs and Protection Warriors.
• During Beta, they're going to be focused on how specs interact with the new itemization systems.
• Blizzard may address some feedback on rotations/talents, but not at a level you would call an "overhaul".

Bottom line, nothing is going to change if we just wait around.

Blizzard dont give a shit about our feedback - they dont even listen to Archimtiros when he provides constructive, well written feedback.

Why would they listen to the rest of us?