[8.0] Battle of Azeroth Protection discussion thread

[Charble]

Not sure where to post this, but I should mention that I'm someone that is considering returning to the game since WoD because an old guild of mine has gotten back together.

I've been a top 50 US raider in multiple expansions (BC, Wrath, MoP and WoD), all playing Prot Warrior. I quit in WoD because I felt I had no agency as a tank to prevent damage with the nerf to Shield Barrier. I come back and look at the rotation now, and it looks like we have Shield Slam and 4 different Devastates. Also, Shield Block uptime appears to be completely reliant on RNG, and Ignore Pain looks like absolute trash (especially after the Alpha changes). Is there any reason to play this spec anymore?

I have a Guardian Druid alt that I made in WoD, and I've been told they were very powerful in this last Mythic tier. It looks like they get near 100% uptime on Ironfur, but my concern has been that the 35% armor increase seems to be now based on Agility rather than actual armor value. The Druid tank rotation was... passable in WoD, but it looks quite boring as it stands now. Is there a single class left I can play without wanting to gouge my eyes out?

Monk looks like it still has depth to it, but they don't look particularly good right now.

I'm very concerned because I was a very early participant in the WoD Beta, where I saw the game go to absolute shit, and I'm worried it's headed down the same path. What is the best way to help my guild but still glean some enjoyment out of it as a tank?

Thanks, and sorry for the long and somewhat off-topic post. Unfortunately, I suspect discussing re-rolls might be a relevant trend in this thread.

[Lightup]

agreed, they nailed prot and arms in mop and then just fucking killed it.

I'm sorry but how did they nail prot and arms
Prot was not that bad ill admit but if someone remember elitist jerks(rip) it was worth using barrier over block in all scenerios
As for arms well I should say slam spam and mop players will ptsd to cs slam spam
Unless you talked about the start beforw patch 5.2 which I cant comment on

[Charble]

I'm sorry but how did they nail prot and arms
Prot was not that bad ill admit but if someone remember elitist jerks(rip) it was worth using barrier over block in all scenerios

You were supposed to use both. The concept was called "Barrier Weaving." Yes, at high Vengeance, Barrier vastly outperformed Block, but you wanted to keep block up near 100% uptime when a boss was hitting you and use that rage (and later, rage gained through Riposte and crits in 5.4) to "weave" Barriers to block every melee swing. 5.4 Prot was the most fun (mechanically speaking, as a class) I've ever had tanking on my warrior.

[Saiyoran]

Not sure where to post this, but I should mention that I'm someone that is considering returning to the game since WoD because an old guild of mine has gotten back together.

I've been a top 50 US raider in multiple expansions (BC, Wrath, MoP and WoD), all playing Prot Warrior. I quit in WoD because I felt I had no agency as a tank to prevent damage with the nerf to Shield Barrier. I come back and look at the rotation now, and it looks like we have Shield Slam and 4 different Devastates. Also, Shield Block uptime appears to be completely reliant on RNG, and Ignore Pain looks like absolute trash (especially after the Alpha changes). Is there any reason to play this spec anymore?

I have a Guardian Druid alt that I made in WoD, and I've been told they were very powerful in this last Mythic tier. It looks like they get near 100% uptime on Ironfur, but my concern has been that the 35% armor increase seems to be now based on Agility rather than actual armor value. The Druid tank rotation was... passable in WoD, but it looks quite boring as it stands now. Is there a single class left I can play without wanting to gouge my eyes out?

Monk looks like it still has depth to it, but they don't look particularly good right now.

I'm very concerned because I was a very early participant in the WoD Beta, where I saw the game go to absolute shit, and I'm worried it's headed down the same path. What is the best way to help my guild but still glean some enjoyment out of it as a tank?

Thanks, and sorry for the long and somewhat off-topic post. Unfortunately, I suspect discussing re-rolls might be a relevant trend in this thread.

If you're talking about live prot warrior, Block Uptime is only dependent on Haste to reduce the cd. It's about a static 60ish%, and Ignore Pain is not worthless, its extremely powerful (though the alpha version looks horrifically bad). Your dps buttons are basically shield slam, thunderclap, and revenge to rage dump.

[Charble]

Thanks for the reply.

If you're talking about live prot warrior, Block Uptime is only dependent on Haste to reduce the cd. It's about a static 60ish%,

Oh, I wasn't aware Haste reduced CDs now (again). But I assume that it takes a big gear commitment to make it good, then? Won't that mean warriors will be poor in the opening tier and get better later on? That was the case with BM in MoP if memory serves.

I want to play my warrior, but it doesn't look like any of the tank classes are particularly engaging at the moment (compared to MoP and earlier tank classes), so I might just opt for whatever looks to be the strongest class. Ignore Pain looks really, really bad on Alpha, so I'm concerned it might not be my warrior I play.

[IKT]

I'm sorry but how did they nail prot and arms
Prot was not that bad ill admit but if someone remember elitist jerks(rip) it was worth using barrier over block in all scenerios

It's hard to describe, I felt like I had control, I had buttons to push, I had a job to do even when I was just off tanking I was still using rally cry if the raid got low or skull barrier to increase dps, I felt like even on boring bosses like there was something for me to do. Since WoD tanking can be fun sometimes, usually in high intensity situations but I quickly run out of buttons and start to hate my life. It's methodical now, there was definitely a method in 5.4 as mentioned above (barrier weaving) but I felt overall like I was at my most "battle ship" having loads to do and buttons to press.

5.4 mop was the most fun I've ever had tanking, admittedly Siege of Org was the most fun raid I've ever participated in, I think I ran it 50x on both LFR and Flex and was moving into Norm when WoD came out.

As for arms well I should say slam spam and mop players will ptsd to cs slam spam
Unless you talked about the start beforw patch 5.2 which I cant comment on

I only used arms sparingly in 5.4 but I do remember it being fun which is rare for me to say because I don't DPS ever, and it appears to be fondly remembered:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2144008#post-1

Admittedly I am finding legion fury to be quite good.

[Waniou]

Sounds like a lot of these changes are moving Prot warriors down the same path they have been for the last year or so and I've hated it the whole time. I feel like I just need to play some more Reinhardt to get that classic prot warrior feeling again.

[Jastall]

Not sure where to post this, but I should mention that I'm someone that is considering returning to the game since WoD because an old guild of mine has gotten back together.

I've been a top 50 US raider in multiple expansions (BC, Wrath, MoP and WoD), all playing Prot Warrior. I quit in WoD because I felt I had no agency as a tank to prevent damage with the nerf to Shield Barrier. I come back and look at the rotation now, and it looks like we have Shield Slam and 4 different Devastates. Also, Shield Block uptime appears to be completely reliant on RNG, and Ignore Pain looks like absolute trash (especially after the Alpha changes). Is there any reason to play this spec anymore?

I have a Guardian Druid alt that I made in WoD, and I've been told they were very powerful in this last Mythic tier. It looks like they get near 100% uptime on Ironfur, but my concern has been that the 35% armor increase seems to be now based on Agility rather than actual armor value. The Druid tank rotation was... passable in WoD, but it looks quite boring as it stands now. Is there a single class left I can play without wanting to gouge my eyes out?

Monk looks like it still has depth to it, but they don't look particularly good right now.

I'm very concerned because I was a very early participant in the WoD Beta, where I saw the game go to absolute shit, and I'm worried it's headed down the same path. What is the best way to help my guild but still glean some enjoyment out of it as a tank?

Thanks, and sorry for the long and somewhat off-topic post. Unfortunately, I suspect discussing re-rolls might be a relevant trend in this thread.

Let's be fair, any tank will feel boring after Mists because Vengeance made them stupidly overpowered and unkillable.

Myself I find Legion Prot fun to play with high Haste (which you should stack). Yeah IP is kind of ass but the Booming Voice build lets you spam Demo Shout and the tier bonuses of T21 grants nice DPS for a tank with shield slams aplenty. And since this isn't Nighthold and bosses actually do physical damage now, Prot is plenty powerful even if not quite as overpowered as Guardian.

If BfA makes IP relevant and ups our baseline rage generation a bit so we're less reliant on Haste I'll be happy.

[Charble]

Let's be fair, any tank will feel boring after Mists because Vengeance made them stupidly overpowered and unkillable.

Even so, I'd be happy with something akin to BC or Wrath Prot Warrior. Even though they didn't have active mitigation (aside from Shield Block for uncrushable in parts of BC), the rotations were still fun and fluid. Also, even in retrospect, although threat was a bizarre tank mechanic that effectively throttled your raid's DPS, it was still something to do, rather than WoD Warrior's AM that seemed as though you had some hand in your character's survival, when your survival was actually much more reliant on healers than you.

[Jastall]

Even so, I'd be happy with something akin to BC or Wrath Prot Warrior. Even though they didn't have active mitigation (aside from Shield Block for uncrushable in parts of BC), the rotations were still fun and fluid. Also, even in retrospect, although threat was a bizarre tank mechanic that effectively throttled your raid's DPS, it was still something to do, rather than WoD Warrior's AM that seemed as though you had some hand in your character's survival, when your survival was actually much more reliant on healers than you.

Yeah we're going to have to disagree on threat. It was the single worst mechanic in this game's history and I am so glad to see it gone.

And if you rely on your healers for survival, you're a poor tank in Legion. They all have powerful toolsets that allows them to survive loads of damage if well used. The one time you were super reliant on healers was in Nighthold because we had piss poor magic damage reduction and almost every boss did magic damage. In Antorus or most M+ keys damage is physical and warriors are super good at mitigating it with shield block, demo shout and Nelth's Fury in some cases. The only reason Guardian is considered superior now is that they can heal themselves, are easier to play and have Stampeding Roar.

[Charble]

And if you rely on your healers for survival, you're a poor tank in Legion. They all have powerful toolsets that allows them to survive loads of damage if well used.

That was my problem with WoD; that toolset (unless you were a monk) was gone. Pretty much all tanks were glorified meatshields in WoD, and there was little agency provided to your character.

I'm glad to hear that some of those tools have been restored in Legion, even if class design by and large looks pretty awful (if I'm being frank). In BfA, I look forward to Ignore Pain as it is now on the beta. I hope they are retooling rage to work more like in MoP, as a generate and spend model, rather than the old "take face damage for rage" model. The reworking of Devastator makes me wonder if that's what they're going for (as a non-talented Devastate is now the old Devastate).

[Jastall]

That was my problem with WoD; that toolset (unless you were a monk) was gone. Pretty much all tanks were glorified meatshields in WoD, and there was little agency provided to your character.

I'm glad to hear that some of those tools have been restored in Legion, even if class design by and large looks pretty awful (if I'm being frank). In BfA, I look forward to Ignore Pain as it is now on the beta. I hope they are retooling rage to work more like in MoP, as a generate and spend model, rather than the old "take face damage for rage" model. The reworking of Devastator makes me wonder if that's what they're going for (as a non-talented Devastate is now the old Devastate).

You only played very early in WoD then. By HFC tanks were gods, especially Brewmasters who could take a big hit, use Guard then go make a sandwich as they would be shielded for 1.5M+ which the boss wouldn't break through for a while, not counting dodges and such of course. There were many ways to game the system even then.

[Charble]

You only played very early in WoD then. By HFC tanks were gods, especially Brewmasters

Oh, believe me; I remember Brewmasters being able to cheese Mythic Blackhand after they nerfed the fight and ruined Phase 2 entirely. I sat for a brewmaster because guard was nonsensical and it allowed them to beat the fight more easily. Warriors were absolute trash in mythic content. The experience of tanking in WoD felt entirely superficial; you had no purpose or reason to be there. Tank mechanics for most classes boiled down to "push CD button to live, don't push CD button to die." That experience wasn't fun.

I'm hoping that's gone in BfA.

EDIT: Noticed you said HFC and not Blackrock Foundry.

Sorry, I thought you said T17 for some reason. I quit in the first week of HFC, for reference. So most of my spiel there pertains to Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry.

[Sevyvia]

agreed, they nailed prot and arms in mop and then just fucking killed it.

Kind of funny you'd write that, MoP Prot was what finally made me change to another class.

[Jastall]

Oh, believe me; I remember Brewmasters being able to cheese Mythic Blackhand after they nerfed the fight and ruined Phase 2 entirely. I sat for a brewmaster because guard was nonsensical and it allowed them to beat the fight more easily. Warriors were absolute trash in mythic content. The experience of tanking in WoD felt entirely superficial; you had no purpose or reason to be there. Tank mechanics for most classes boiled down to "push CD button to live, don't push CD button to die." That experience wasn't fun.

I'm hoping that's gone in BfA.

EDIT: Noticed you said HFC and not Blackrock Foundry.

Sorry, I thought you said T17 for some reason. I quit in the first week of HFC, for reference. So most of my spiel there pertains to Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry.

Well Brews became even more overpowered in HFC, I had a Monk alt that had Normal gear and tanked Heroic very easily (seriously, Guard scaled ridiculously well) while my Warrior's higher ilvl Prot offspec struggled a bit more. Still, tanks were stupidly powerful again once past a certain gear level even if they never reached Mists level of being top damage because lolvengeance, enough that Blizzard stated their intention of nerfing them in Legion. That didn't even last until EN where Ignore Pain was stupidly powerful until it got the nerfbat, and since then tanks have been mostly self-sufficient again with some exceptions, with the final boss of Nighthold being freaking solo tanked because Guardian was that incredibly OP.

All that said, Prot has historically been one of the least self sufficient tanking specs in the game. And Blizzard has tried in Antorus to vary tank swaps a bit and/or add more tank mechanics to them. Garothi, Felhounds, Portal Keeper, Eonar, Kin'garoth, Varimathas, Aggramar and Argus all have more thank mechanics than just taunt swapping at 2 stacks on Mythic. So it still remains interesting enough to me even as a mainly DPS player.

[sosleapy]

Ignore pain has disappeared on alpha. Did I miss something?

[thebdc]

Ignore pain has disappeared on alpha. Did I miss something?

Well, they removed it. If you mean if there was an eplanation - then no, there wasn't. No info what it will be replaced with, either.

[RenDefiance]

WIth IP gone... seems our rage flowis too high to use it all realisically, and with high haste levels that would become worse... However without IP... the spec misses something extra to press, so I think something will replace it as it feels... empty atm

[minibell]

With IP the spec does feel weirdly missing something and I've had to change how I pull big packs, but I hasn't significantly changed the outcome. That said my few attempts into dungeons weren't fruitful for testing, lag spikes and disconnects galore. Incoming damage isn't overly spikey unless there are several casters. It feels a lot like my bear with shockwave.

[Tyze]

Please let IP go away!