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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Flying was cool and fun in outlands, but that's were it should have stopped.

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    I don't think classic is meant for the current crop of WoW players. IMO its a scheme by Blizzard to bring back old time veteran players they lost due to the past several years of watering down. I couldn't imagine the current group of fast action, instant gratification, players enjoying it much.
    Sure, old ppl with less reflex that like slowmo no mechanic fight would enjoy it more.

  2. #642
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Sure, old ppl with less reflex that like slowmo no mechanic fight would enjoy it more.
    Implying that you need twitch reflexes to do Mythic raids today

    You need a lot of things to be able to successfully raid Mythic, but fast reflexes are certainly not one of them. WoW isn't CS:GO.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  3. #643
    Not twitch, but just normal would be enough, but looks like that is already too much to ask from Vanilla crowd!

  4. #644
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    I play a warlock. The way soulstones used to be is well more than enough to deter me from playing classic. Having to spent an hour before every raid up until cataclysm farming soul shards so I can actually use my spells is fucking bullshit and I can't believe it ever passed as a mechanic when every single other class had reagents bought from a vendor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Not twitch, but just normal would be enough, but looks like that is already too much to ask from Vanilla crowd!
    You have plenty of time (multiple seconds) to respond to anything and everything that happens in a Mythic encounter, and you have timers for most things so nothing should be a surprise.

    Raiding is a lot more about investing time in learning your class, learning the encounters, gearing up, and actually making attempts than it is about having any kind of physical ability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azarak View Post
    I play a warlock. The way soulstones used to be is well more than enough to deter me from playing classic. Having to spent an hour before every raid up until cataclysm farming soul shards so I can actually use my spells is fucking bullshit and I can't believe it ever passed as a mechanic when every single other class had reagents bought from a vendor.
    I play a lock right now on a Vanilla server and it's not bad at all. I rarely have less than half a bag of shards on me at any time, they don't disappear when you log out, and you can tag them off anything including raid trash.

    You didn't need shards to cast any offensive spell you'd actually be using in raids other than Shadowburn and it refunded a shard within 5s if the target died. Soulfire was useful in BWL and AQ if the mobs were weak to fire, but it had a long CD so it was a one and done kind of deal. Other than that they were only for summoning, health/soulstones, and summoning your Succubus to sac it if you ran DS/Ruin.

    Give me the Vanilla soul stone mechanic any day over having to buy and carry hundreds of expensive buffing reagents like priests and paladins.

    Side note: Lots of people seem to be very confused about soul shards disappearing upon logout. They don't, and they never did. The only things that disappear upon logout are conjured items, which is the same as on Live.
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2018-01-16 at 06:50 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You have plenty of time (multiple seconds) to respond to anything and everything that happens in a Mythic encounter, and you have timers for most things so nothing should be a surprise.

    Raiding is a lot more about investing time in learning your class, learning the encounters, gearing up, and actually making attempts than it is about having any kind of physical ability.
    Unfortunately much of the current crowd cant understand this. They have so many conveniences they don't know what it is like to learn as you go, and certainly don't understand about the journey.

  7. #647
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You have plenty of time (multiple seconds) to respond to anything and everything that happens in a Mythic encounter, and you have timers for most things so nothing should be a surprise.

    Raiding is a lot more about investing time in learning your class, learning the encounters, gearing up, and actually making attempts than it is about having any kind of physical ability.

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    I play a lock right now on a Vanilla server and it's not bad at all. I rarely have less than half a bag of shards on me at any time, they don't disappear when you log out, and you can tag them off anything including raid trash.

    You didn't need shards to cast any offensive spell you'd actually be using in raids other than Shadowburn and it refunded a shard within 5s if the target died. Soulfire was useful in BWL and AQ if the mobs were weak to fire, but it had a long CD so it was a one and done kind of deal. Other than that they were only for summoning, health/soulstones, and summoning your Succubus to sac it if you ran DS/Ruin.

    Give me the Vanilla soul stone mechanic any day over having to buy and carry hundreds of expensive buffing reagents like priests and paladins.
    I didn't play a lock, but my dad did in Vanilla. I swear (based on memory) you needed them for soulstones, healthstones, summoning all your demons, firestones and spellstones (If I am right - they were things right??), amongst some offensive abilities. You could burn through them pretty fast. Of course, that is my memory of another person playing, but I think you needed them for a lot.

    Not bashing, but I recall many a time my dad storming from his PC to have a cigarette when he ran out of them
    Last edited by mmocf5062b794a; 2018-01-16 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Lots of poor spelling

  8. #648
    Stood in the Fire Azarak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    I play a lock right now on a Vanilla server and it's not bad at all. I rarely have less than half a bag of shards on me at any time, they don't disappear when you log out, and you can tag them off anything including raid trash.

    You didn't need shards to cast any offensive spell you'd actually be using in raids other than Shadowburn and it refunded a shard within 5s if the target died. Soulfire was useful in BWL and AQ if the mobs were weak to fire, but it had a long CD so it was a one and done kind of deal. Other than that they were only for summoning, health/soulstones, and summoning your Succubus to sac it if you ran DS/Ruin.

    Give me the Vanilla soul stone mechanic any day over having to buy and carry hundreds of expensive buffing reagents like priests and paladins.

    Side note: Lots of people seem to be very confused about soul shards disappearing upon logout. They don't, and they never did. The only things that disappear upon logout are conjured items, which is the same as on Live.
    I guess you don't progression raid, because I distinctly remember having to use several shards every single pull to resummon your demon, resoulstone, and make another healthcare if needed and at that point there is no more trash to get them off of so you had to have a lot stockpiled and ready. Having a few spaces of storage taken by easily obtainable reagents is league's better than losing an entire bag slot to a shard bag also IMO.

    Not to mention the idea of having to do this is so boring and tedious, it's no wonder they removed it. Like all reagents for that matter.
    Last edited by Azarak; 2018-01-16 at 07:01 PM.

  9. #649
    lol at OP.

    We got it, you don't like vanilla. Why the need to share your feeling? don't like it, don't play it.

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironcast View Post
    I didn't play a lock, but my dad did in Vanilla. I swear (based on memory) you needed them for soulstones, healthstones, summoning all your demons, firestones and spellstones (If I am right - they were things right??), amongst some offensive abilities. You could burn through them pretty fast. Of course, that is my memory of another person playing, but I think you needed them for a lot.

    Not bashing, but I recall many a time my dad storming from his PC to have a cigarette when he ran out of them
    You needed them for those things, yes. However the only thing you actually used them for on any kind of regular basis were pets, soulstones, healthstones, and Shadowburn. In a raid setting you only used them for pets if you used a Succubus because you ran DS/Ruin. The vast majority of warlocks ran SM/Ruin, which used a phase shifted Imp that didn't require shards to summon.Sometimes you would fire off some Soulfires on Chromaggus but that was essentially one boss in the whole expansion and the ability had a long cooldown.

    Firestones and spellstones were largely useless (spellstones had some utility in PvP). You truly cannot burn through shards quickly unless you're chain summoning an entire raid, and there should be multiple warlocks doing that if people are expecting summons. You can also tag souls off any mob, and it's easy to get a full bag of shards (28 slots after MC) off of a few trash packs in any of the raids.

    You certainly never had any points in time where you couldn't play your character because you were out of shards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azarak View Post
    I guess you don't progression raid, because I distinctly remember having to use several shards every single pull to resummon your demon, resoulstone, and make another healthcare if needed and at that point there is no more trash to get them off of so you had to have a lot stockpiled and ready. Having a few spaces of storage taken by easily obtainable reagents is league's better than losing an entire bag slot to a shard bag also IMO.

    Not to mention the idea of having to do this is so boring and tedious, it's no wonder they removed it. Like all reagents for that matter.
    I did progression raid in Vanilla through AQ, and do raid in Vanilla right now in Naxx.

    You don't need to resummon your demon on every pull because you're A: using a phase shifted Imp (SM/Ruin) that is invincible and doesn't require a shard to summon or B: using a sacced Succy (DS/Ruin.) Neither of them have a pet that can die, and you're using a single shard to resummon your Succy on wipes if you're running DS/Ruin, which is a spec choice and is worse than SM/Ruin if you're allowed a debuff slot for Corruption. If you ever had a pet out that could actually die on a pull you were doing it completely wrong.

    Soulstone is on a 30m CD, so you were absolutely not using a shard to make once every pull. That's patently false.

    Making a single Healthstone is one shard per pull, maybe you're making another mid-fight on a boss like Nefarian, but you should be tagging shards off the mobs in P1 anyways. Speaking of tagging shards, respawn timers were so short in Vanilla that you often didn't get many attempts on a boss before you needed to re-clear, giving you another opportunity to stock up on shards.

    Sure, losing a bag to a shard bag is a pain, but other classes had to give up a bag slot or the equivalent. Warriors had two bags of gear at any point in time on them. Hunters had a quiver. Paladins gave up a whole bag to buff reagents.

    Is it a somewhat clunky system? Sure. But the entirety of Vanilla is somewhat clunky. The fact remains that as a Warlock running out of shards was something that really didn't happen if you paid attention, and the only detriment was the inability to summon or make healthstones aside from people who ran one particular, and inferior post-ZG, spec (DS/Ruin).
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2018-01-16 at 07:18 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You needed them for those things, yes. However the only thing you actually used them for on any kind of regular basis were pets, soulstones, healthstones, and Shadowburn. In a raid setting you only used them for pets if you used a Succubus because you ran DS/Ruin. The vast majority of warlocks ran SM/Ruin, which used a phase shifted Imp that didn't require shards to summon.Sometimes you would fire off some Soulfires on Chromaggus but that was essentially one boss in the whole expansion and the ability had a long cooldown.

    Firestones and spellstones were largely useless (spellstones had some utility in PvP). You truly cannot burn through shards quickly unless you're chain summoning an entire raid, and there should be multiple warlocks doing that if people are expecting summons. You can also tag souls off any mob, and it's easy to get a full bag of shards (28 slots after MC) off of a few trash packs in any of the raids.

    You certainly never had any points in time where you couldn't play your character because you were out of shards.

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    I did progression raid in Vanilla through AQ, and do raid in Vanilla right now in Naxx.

    You don't need to resummon your demon on every pull because you're A: using a phase shifted Imp (SM/Ruin) that is invincible and doesn't require a shard to summon or B: using a sacced Succy (DS/Ruin.) Neither of them have a pet that can die, and you're using a single shard to resummon your Succy on wipes if you're running DS/Ruin, which is a spec choice and is worse than SM/Ruin if you're allowed a debuff slot for Corruption. If you ever had a pet out that could actually die on a pull you were doing it completely wrong.

    Soulstone is on a 30m CD, so you were absolutely not using a shard to make once every pull. That's patently false.

    Making a single Healthstone is one shard per pull, maybe you're making another mid-fight on a boss like Nefarian, but you should be tagging shards off the mobs in P1 anyways. Speaking of tagging shards, respawn timers were so short in Vanilla that you often didn't get many attempts on a boss before you needed to re-clear, giving you another opportunity to stock up on shards.

    Sure, losing a bag to a shard bag is a pain, but other classes had to give up a bag slot or the equivalent. Warriors had two bags of gear at any point in time on them. Hunters had a quiver. Paladins gave up a whole bag to buff reagents.

    Is it a somewhat clunky system? Sure. But the entirety of Vanilla is somewhat clunky. The fact remains that as a Warlock running out of shards was something that really didn't happen if you paid attention, and the only detriment was the inability to summon or make healthstones aside from people who ran one particular, and inferior post-ZG, spec (DS/Ruin).
    I don't recall phase shifted imps still being summoned after dying, if that was ever a mechanic it must've been removed. And I didn't say sometimes were every pull, but it is something to consider as it's still frequent. Not to mention you're summoning someone every time they go back to town to repair or buy more reagents or w/e. Maybe it doesn't bother you because you're so used to it, but it's an awful mechanic when you actually go from having it to live wow. So tedious and boring for no reason because it's surely not engaging.

  12. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by azarak View Post
    I don't recall phase shifted imps still being summoned after dying, if that was ever a mechanic it must've been removed. And I didn't say sometimes were every pull, but it is something to consider as it's still frequent. Not to mention you're summoning someone every time they go back to town to repair or buy more reagents or w/e. Maybe it doesn't bother you because you're so used to it, but it's an awful mechanic when you actually go from having it to live wow. So tedious and boring for no reason because it's surely not engaging.
    Imps don't require a shard to be summoned in Vanilla, and you still need to re-summon pets when they die on Live. They also changed it so that pets don't despawn on flight paths/hearthstones.

    Also, you're not usually summoning people when they go back to repair or buy reagents in my experience because you still use repair bots in progression raiding in Vanilla.

    because I distinctly remember having to use several shards every single pull to resummon your demon, resoulstone, and make another healthcare if needed
    You did say.
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2018-01-16 at 07:33 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  13. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by azarak View Post
    I don't recall phase shifted imps still being summoned after dying, if that was ever a mechanic it must've been removed. And I didn't say sometimes were every pull, but it is something to consider as it's still frequent. Not to mention you're summoning someone every time they go back to town to repair or buy more reagents or w/e. Maybe it doesn't bother you because you're so used to it, but it's an awful mechanic when you actually go from having it to live wow. So tedious and boring for no reason because it's surely not engaging.
    The trash resetting for more shards is true though I guess, that issue was made worse later on when trash respawned slower. Although then you have to clear trash all the time and that was fucking awful too haha. But that's another topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Imps don't require a shard to be summoned in Vanilla, and you still need to re-summon pets when they die on Live.



    You did say.
    I do recall imps being free now that I think about it, I never used them though with sacrifice available. But I guess you could use them instead, I don't remember what was more viable as I'm sure one is.
    And see, I said you have to use several shards every pull, not use a soulshard every pull. Reading comprehension.

  14. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by azarak View Post
    The trash resetting for more shards is true though I guess, that issue was made worse later on when trash respawned slower. Although then you have to clear trash all the time and that was fucking awful too haha. But that's another topic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I do recall imps being free now that I think about it, I never used them though with sacrifice available. But I guess you could use them instead, I don't remember what was more viable as I'm sure one is.
    And see, I said you have to use several shards every pull, not use a soulshard every pull. Reading comprehension.
    Using several shards every pull is worse than using a single shard every pull, so I'm not really sure what your point is there. The fact is that you didn't actually have to do either of those things unless you were running DS/Ruin and you died.

    DS/Ruin was better if you weren't given a debuff slot to use Corruption, but if you were then SM/Ruin was better. If you ran SM/Ruin you would use the imp for the stamina buff. No summoned pets would live through a boss encounter because they had no sustain and took full damage from AoE and boss cleaves.

    Trash respawns in Vanilla are indeed awful, particularly Ossirian trash, AQ40 gauntlet, and suppression room trash.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Using several shards every pull is worse than using a single shard every pull, so I'm not really sure what your point is there. The fact is that you didn't actually have to do either of those things unless you were running DS/Ruin and you died.

    DS/Ruin was better if you weren't given a debuff slot to use Corruption, but if you were then SM/Ruin was better. If you ran SM/Ruin you would use the imp for the stamina buff. No summoned pets would live through a boss encounter because they had no sustain and took full damage from AoE and boss cleaves.

    Trash respawns in Vanilla are indeed awful, particularly Ossirian trash, AQ40 gauntlet, and suppression room trash.
    Well mainly my point was directed more at the soul shard thing in general and not specifically vanilla. I do see now that in vanilla you don't have to use several every pull. You certainly did in bc and wrath, but I guess that doesn't matter for classic, I just forgot in my soul shard nerd rage that this is based on classic wow lol.

    Either way I didn't want to voice my opinion about the old soul shard mechanic to basically get told "no it actually wasn't bad, your opinion is wrong." You can enjoy it if you do, but that is one of my biggest reasons not to ever go back to the way things were.

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You have plenty of time (multiple seconds) to respond to anything and everything that happens in a Mythic encounter, and you have timers for most things so nothing should be a surprise.

    Raiding is a lot more about investing time in learning your class, learning the encounters, gearing up, and actually making attempts than it is about having any kind of physical ability.

    [COLOR="#417394"]- - - Updated - - -[/C

    I play a lock right now on a Vanilla server and it's not bad at all. I rarely have less than half a bag of shards on me at any time, they don't disappear when you log out, and you can tag them off anything including raid trash.

    You didn't need shards to cast any offensive spell you'd actually be using in raids other than Shadowburn and it refunded a shard within 5s if the target died. Soulfire was useful in BWL and AQ if the mobs were weak to fire, but it had a long CD so it was a one and done kind of deal. Other than that they were only for summoning, health/soulstones, and summoning your Succubus to sac it if you ran DS/Ruin.

    Give me the Vanilla soul stone mechanic any day over having to buy and carry hundreds of expensive buffing reagents like priests and paladins.

    Side note: Lots of people seem to be very confused about soul shards disappearing upon logout. They don't, and they never did. The only things that disappear upon logout are conjured items, which is the same as on Live.

    They did disappear upon logout like all conjured/summoned items. Always. And you could only get them off mobs that gave xp. Not like every mob in every zone could be farmed and you get one per mob. When nearly everything was tied to shards, the norm was to fill your bags with them and then at break time you’d step outside or wherever your fav place was and farm there then fly back and hope you can keep enough to last the rest of the night. It wasn’t uncommon for raids to be halted just for the locks to go out and get more shards either. Shadowburn...in a raid setting. Yeah, nope. You also seem to be confusing how things are on your private server vs how it actually was in Vanilla. There’s some similarities but it’s far from the same game.

    I think this highlights what will be an issue for lots of folks who never played original wow but do play on private servers. There’s going to be a lot of similarities but also more glaring differences. Especially when they incorrectly use how classes/balance/mechanics as a “I know all” type of mentality everybody sees all over this forum.

  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    They did disappear upon logout like all conjured/summoned items. Always. And you could only get them off mobs that gave xp. Not like every mob in every zone could be farmed and you get one per mob. When nearly everything was tied to shards, the norm was to fill your bags with them and then at break time you’d step outside or wherever your fav place was and farm there then fly back and hope you can keep enough to last the rest of the night. It wasn’t uncommon for raids to be halted just for the locks to go out and get more shards either. Shadowburn...in a raid setting. Yeah, nope. You also seem to be confusing how things are on your private server vs how it actually was in Vanilla. There’s some similarities but it’s far from the same game.

    I think this highlights what will be an issue for lots of folks who never played original wow but do play on private servers. There’s going to be a lot of similarities but also more glaring differences. Especially when they incorrectly use how classes/balance/mechanics as a “I know all” type of mentality everybody sees all over this forum.
    They absolutely, positively, completely, 100% did not. You are wrong, but don't feel bad, because there are other people who remember it vehemently but incorrectly as well. Soulshards were not conjured items - Soulstones and Healthstones were, along with Spellstones and Firestones. You had a 28 slot shard bag after MC that rarely ever emptied if you paid attention outside of dumping shards on summons to start a raid.

    Yes, you could only get them off XP mobs, which is every mob in raids and outside of raids other than Onyxia.

    Shadowburn in a raid setting - absolutely. You dump it if you can afford to when you get Imp. Shadowbolt procs, and on trash/executes.

    Raids never stopped for locks to go get shards when I played in actual Vanilla, and they certainly don't stop for that now. Locks would be expected to keep a modicum of shards on-hand by tapping trash mobs, but that was it.

    Nearly everything isn't tied to shards at all. As I've said before many times it was only healthstones, summons, and soulstones unless you were running DS/Ruin and you frankly shouldn't have been post-ZG. Shards were easily replenished in raids with minimal effort other than Onyxia because of the limited trash.

    I think this highlights what will be an issue for lots of folks who haven't touched Vanilla since it was current but think they remember things accurately.

    You're flat out wrong on some points but you're talking as if your opinion is objectively correct while I guarantee you I have a much better working knowledge of Vanilla than you do due to my experience of playing it at the time in a competitive raiding guild combined with my experience of having played through the entire game's raid progression again on a Blizzlike private server.
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2018-01-16 at 11:16 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Raiding wasn't the game's big draw back then--leveling, dungeons, and PvP were much more prominent.
    Sounds good to me

  19. #659
    One of my clearest memories from vanilla is waiting outside Blackwing lair, and then suddenly getting 1-shot by an aimed shot from a hunter at the same level as myself.
    I also remember that you could create incredibly OP twinks. I had a 39 affliction warlock who would kill any enemy character I met in a BG with the combo immolation + life drain + corruption unless healed (I had a ton of +spellpower). Not sure if I remember the spell names correctly. I also had some nifty engineering gadgets to use if opposition became tough. When I teamed up with my brother (39 warrior) and my friend (39 holy paladin) we made an unstoppable group in any BG. AB was particular fun, because we could take any flag no matter how well defended.

  20. #660
    The main thing i remember about vanilla was that it was fun and compelling to play, even though sometimes it could be a grind. Dungeon crawling was amazing. Unlike today.

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