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  1. #1

    Everyone Is Wrong

    Battle for Azeroth already looks close to done already, and only it's features that require beta testing like class balance and Heart of Azeroth traits are missing.

    The expansion launches with more features than Legion, delusional people seem to think this means BfA is "filler" (keep in mind they said MoP, WoD, and Legion were all filler, and maybe only WoD could qualify as 'filler').

    Legion Launch:
    • Mythic+ (9 dungeons)
    • World Quests (4 WQ zones at launch, 1 later on based on rep (Suramar))
    • Order Halls
    • Artifact Weapons
    • Raids
    • Legendaries (a bad system)

    Battle for Azeroth Launch:
    • Mythic+ (10 dungeons)
    • World Quests (6 WQ zones at cap)
    • Artifact Necklace
    • Scenarios (with scaling difficulty up to Mythic level)
    • PVP Scenarios
    • Global World PVP server flagging and World PVP sharding.
    • War Fronts
    • Raids
    • Removal of Legendaries (The best announcement to date)
    • Allied Race quests
    • Zone scaling revamp.

    Let's also talk about how Battle for Azeroth takes all the best features of Legion, ditches the terrible features, and improves on it with all new content like War Fronts and Scenarios.
    Last edited by Myta; 2017-11-05 at 07:17 AM.
    Mistweaver Tax noun 1. The effect of both high mana costs, and lack of utility, coupled with requiring specific talent combinations to compete with other healers, while still not being able to compete with toolkits said healers have baseline in any competitive area.

  2. #2
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I mean the stuff it's borrowing from Legion is great.

    But the stuff it's doing new for itself is pretty limited, and none of it seemed far along.

    I get people will jump on me for "but the zones look done." Art isn't what's been holding this game back. Just go watch the art panel if you don't believe me. It's the programmers that'll hold up the BFA launch.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I mean the stuff it's borrowing from Legion is great.

    But the stuff it's doing new for itself is pretty limited, and none of it seemed far along.

    I get people will jump on me for "but the zones look done." Art isn't what's been holding this game back. Just go watch the art panel if you don't believe me. It's the programmers that'll hold up the BFA launch.
    All the things it does in Legion it does more of than Legion did, and/or improves upon it, not counting the new features.

    And just because they didn't show it, doesn't mean it's not done. They are deliberately preventing people at Blizzcon from spoiling things too quickly.
    Mistweaver Tax noun 1. The effect of both high mana costs, and lack of utility, coupled with requiring specific talent combinations to compete with other healers, while still not being able to compete with toolkits said healers have baseline in any competitive area.

  4. #4
    Look, if you count "removal of legendaries" as a feature just to boost your list, then something is wrong.

    Legion also launched with a completely new Honor system, a new class and a new profession system.

    If you count "Allied Race quests" then I consider Artifact quests and class quests to be things.

    Zone scaling was introduced in Legion.

    Yeah, of course, it's stupid to be needlessly pessimistic, but it's also really idiotic to assume that the expansion is more than it is right now. What has been revealed IS disappointing compared to Legion.

  5. #5
    if it looks close to done already to you then its the definition of a filler expansion.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Look, if you count "removal of legendaries" as a feature just to boost your list, then something is wrong.
    It's a cheeky addition, but the only one. But no, I consider the removal of legendaries not just a game choice, but a testament that Blizzard listened to the feedback on the horrendous RNG of Legion.

    Hence the title, if you don't want Legion with MORE content, more varied zones from swamp to desert (let's face it, in Legion every zone was mountainous), less bullshit systems, more content, dungeons, etc than Legion had overall. You are just stone cold wrong.

    BfA had a terrible day1 at Blizzcon outside of the cinematic, but day 2 with the art and Q&A panels saved it massively and showed there's a LOT we don't know still.
    Mistweaver Tax noun 1. The effect of both high mana costs, and lack of utility, coupled with requiring specific talent combinations to compete with other healers, while still not being able to compete with toolkits said healers have baseline in any competitive area.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Myta View Post
    It's a cheeky addition, but the only one. But no, I consider the removal of legendaries not just a game choice, but a testament that Blizzard listened to the feedback on the horrendous RNG of Legion.

    Hence the title, if you don't want Legion with MORE content, more varied zones from swamp to desert (let's face it, in Legion every zone was mountainous), less bullshit systems, more content, dungeons, etc than Legion had overall. You are just stone cold wrong.

    BfA had a terrible day1 at Blizzcon outside of the cinematic, but day 2 with the art and Q&A panels saved it massively and showed there's a LOT we don't know still.
    Thing is, it's an expansion, not a DLC.

    I don't want Legion with new settings. Hell, we apparently will barely get any new spells.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Thing is, it's an expansion, not a DLC.

    I don't want Legion with new settings. Hell, we apparently will barely get any new spells.
    So every good system Legion had but MORE than Legion had, plus new entire systems is DLC to you.

    More dungeons, more zones than Legion, on top of everything else, ontop of Warfronts and Scenarios. An expansion that is everything Legion did but even more of it than Legion had, AND on top that completely new systems entirely, to you that's DLC not an expansion.

    I think we have to accept at some point that certain people on these forums do not live on Earth, you're off having tea with Xenu on Neptulon 5 right now.
    Mistweaver Tax noun 1. The effect of both high mana costs, and lack of utility, coupled with requiring specific talent combinations to compete with other healers, while still not being able to compete with toolkits said healers have baseline in any competitive area.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I don't want Legion with new settings. Hell, we apparently will barely get any new spells.
    Classes need to play well and feel OK, you don't need a huge class revamp for every expansions "just because".
    If anything, if they find a point where classes are in a place where such a revamp isn't necessary, its probably better for the game as a whole.

    That said, the Azerite armor effects (basically up to 12 effects, 4 on 3 pieces of armor each) will still influence your character quite a bit.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2017-11-05 at 07:58 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Classes need to play well and feel OK, you don't need a huge class revamp for every expansions "just because".
    If anything, if they find a point where classes are in a place where such a revamp isn't necessary, its probably better for the game as a whole.

    That said, the Azerite armor effects (basically up to 12 effects, 4 on 3 pieces of armor each) will still influence your character quite a bit.
    Also class balance stuff not announced =/= doesn't exist.

    People think because Blizzard isn't talking class changes now, means classes will not change. They do class updates every expansion.
    Mistweaver Tax noun 1. The effect of both high mana costs, and lack of utility, coupled with requiring specific talent combinations to compete with other healers, while still not being able to compete with toolkits said healers have baseline in any competitive area.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Myta View Post
    Battle for Azeroth already looks close to done already, and only it's features that require beta testing like class balance and Heart of Azeroth traits are missing.

    The expansion launches with more features than Legion, delusional people seem to think this means BfA is "filler" (keep in mind they said MoP, WoD, and Legion were all filler, and maybe only WoD could qualify as 'filler').
    LOL

    The entire Blizzcon was "uhm, maybe", "yeah we are thinking about that", "we haven't decided that yet", "possibly we are going to do this", "it looks like it will be like this" etc.

    BfA is more a concept than an expansion at the moment. It looks close to done? Hahahaha. No way. Most of the expansion hasn't even been fleshed out yet. It's in its early stages, at best.

    And no, BfA doesn't launch with more features. Heart of Azeroth is a shallow version of artifact traits, Island Expeditions are scenarios from MoP with a little rng attached to it, Warfronts are just uninspired.

    Legion had in depth and very well thought out features. The artifacts for example. BfA has nothing like that.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  12. #12
    High Overlord PrinceOfThaWest's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this, mate. Finally a reasonable topic and normal discussion regarding it to be seen. Kind of cleans my eyes as well. On top of that, I agree with OP with what he said. This expansion is about to be amazing. I personally read between the lines and cinematic itself was misleading. This'll start as AvH but turn into something much bigger and pave a way for future expansions to arrive with great content and overhauls.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The entire Blizzcon was "uhm, maybe", "yeah we are thinking about that", "we haven't decided that yet", "possibly we are going to do this", "it looks like it will be like this" etc.
    Thats likely because if they say anything else, people will consider it a "promise" and there will be uprisings if they change anything in the course of the development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Legion had in depth and very well thought out features. The artifacts for example. BfA has nothing like that.
    And yet people still didn't like how the Artifact ultimately played out. If anything, they learned what worked and what didn't work with the Artifact and distilled it down for the Heart of Azeroth.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    LOL

    The entire Blizzcon was "uhm, maybe", "yeah we are thinking about that", "we haven't decided that yet", "possibly we are going to do this", "it looks like it will be like this" etc.

    BfA is more a concept than an expansion at the moment. It looks close to done? Hahahaha. No way. Most of the expansion hasn't even been fleshed out yet. It's in its early stages, at best.

    And no, BfA doesn't launch with more features. Heart of Azeroth is a shallow version of artifact traits, Island Expeditions are scenarios from MoP with a little rng attached to it, Warfronts are just uninspired.

    Legion had in depth and very well thought out features. The artifacts for example. BfA has nothing like that.
    They have to say that because in beta things change as feedback is delivered, and Blizzard now has to frame every word they say with 200+ layers of maybe because whenever Blizzard has said "We would like to" or "We plan to" the audience takes that as stone cold going to happen immediately.

    Also like with the Worgen/Goblin not in 8.0 but after stuff, not everyone in Blizzard knows exactly what every department is doing.

    So the more people do this, the more they mince Blizzard's words, the more layers of maybe they have to add, because MMO-Champion posters never react to WoW news with any degree of sanity and start saying shit like an expansion with way more launch content than the previous one, is 'filler'.
    Mistweaver Tax noun 1. The effect of both high mana costs, and lack of utility, coupled with requiring specific talent combinations to compete with other healers, while still not being able to compete with toolkits said healers have baseline in any competitive area.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The entire Blizzcon was "uhm, maybe", "yeah we are thinking about that", "we haven't decided that yet", "possibly we are going to do this", "it looks like it will be like this" etc.
    You said it perfectly, no clear direction where they want to go. Is and expansion like a patch, "let's put something into game". Bam.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Thats likely because if they say anything else, people will consider it a "promise" and there will be uprisings if they change anything in the course of the development.
    There's a difference between promising stuff or just not telling anything because you don't know. It's been the latter and not the former during Blizzcon.

    There has been ZERO information about what we can really expect except the setting (that's set in stone). Everything else is absolutely vague stuff that hasn't been fleshed out or even worked on in detail yet.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2017-11-05 at 08:15 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #17
    Thing is, there is nothing that carries this expansion.

    There's no new class, no real race, no "Artifact Weapons" (big new system that's exciting), no raid overhaul, no new specs, nothing.

    Their biggest "features" are Invasion Points 2.0, Warfronts which seem cool but REALLY NOT fleshed out at all and Allied Races which is a stupid concept if they implement it how it is.

    Art-wise, it's amazing, sure, but feature-wise? It's not really anything to write home about.

    And the "not telling us because they dont want to promise stuff" argument is stupid, because that didn't stop them with Legion.

  18. #18
    Randomly listing "features" withouth accounting for quality/size of the feature does not provide a sufficied ground for comparison. You literally elongated your list with "removal of legendaries", while a good descision, is not actually gaining anything, you are a joke, mate. The book is also slated for a march release, which would make an aprl/may launch possible given previous behaviour. If anything that is scary, because that looks more like they intend to push this one out of the door no matter what - just like WoD.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Warfronts which seem cool but REALLY NOT fleshed out at all
    eeeuuuw... please take some logic classes.

  20. #20
    Procedurally generated content IS filler, OP. And right now the biggest selling point of the expansion are the island scenarios.

    Maybe it's just me, but currently I'm not inclined to pay a sub fee to endlessly grind AP through procedurally generated instances. Blizzard calls it "replayability"; I call it unethical, cheap and lazy Skinner-box design.

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