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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Oh right like your copycat in Munich last year?

    "The Munich gunman reportedly read up on US school shootings."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...l-surveillance

    Seems like you have a copycat problem also.

    - - - Updated - - -

    With different regional attitudes it's not so easy. Every developed country has suicide by gun problem. Even your's does if you'd be honest about this.
    Not sure what you're trying to say here. I've never said the EU is a place full of saints where nothing bad ever happens. What I've said is that it's a safe place and every record and statistic in the book agrees with me.

    Suicide by gun is really an American thing, to be honest. Mostly, because our cops don't pull the gun and shoot at the slightest provocation. See, since our cops can expect most people to not have guns, they're really relaxed about shit and are super cool at deescalating situations. And since most people don't have access to guns on a regular basis, anything gun related really isn't the first thing that jumps to mind when people think about doing bullshit here.

    When you think "gun", we think "big ass kitchen knife". A gun crime in Europe with only 1-2 casualties is big enough to actually make the news. That's how few of those we get. In the US? News doesn't even report on gun deaths anymore. Because that's normal routine.

    Here, random headline today:

    http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justi...a-1176619.html

    This is one of our weekly magazines reporting about a hostage situation on their homepage. He's armed with "at least" a knife. That's how crime typically looks like in Europe. We still have bad dudes, just like you do. But unlike you, we know already that this dude won't be able to get more than 2, maybe 3 before he's overpowered and in custody.
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  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yes, but how likely are you to take that first cigarette (or the first dozen) when everyone around you thinks they are lame? Or when they think they make you look more adult?

    Banning ads didn't get smoking into the bad spot it is now. It's just one aspect of it. The idea that guns are "cool" is what you need to fight. And you need to do it on all fronts, not just ads. You need to drill it into these people that guns aren't problem solvers for the average person. They're problems themselves.
    how many people in the US do you think own guns??
    because i can tell you it is nowhere near as many as you think

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    And what were the major tools in that? Raising the price to obnoxious levels through taxation, reduce the availability, prohibit the advertisement, hide the products from view, ban smoking in various places etc.

    Everyone knew it was unhealthy for decades, that didn't help. You need to do practical actions to achieve killing an idea.

    This is what eg. muslims did to zoroastrians back in the day. With concrete and practical political actions they killed a religious idea.
    And this, my American friends, is why we keep bashing you to melt guns. Go on, melt them, melt them now. As many as you can. If only to raise the price on the black market.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    how many people in the US do you think own guns??
    because i can tell you it is nowhere near as many as you think
    Well, it has to be nearly half, because otherwise I really have no fucking idea why the president isn't just teaming up with the supreme court and installing a federal gun control scheme that removes guns from your public and cultural life for good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    you are a sick puppy dude that last part proves it

    since we are ripping on countries

    how is it the EU is so superior yet even your tv starts have fucked up teeth??
    i didnt know it was acceptable to look at murder as entertainment but from the countrys that gave us bedazzled vaginas im not surprised
    America has shooting the EU has mass bombings and freaks wielding machetes and shootings
    you are superior in one aspect and that is your science fiction is amazing
    i would say your healthcare but maybe put that into some dental plans
    maybe if your leaders were more focused on important issues instead of outlawing porn or non-existent sexual discrimination you wouldnt be in such poor health
    though maybe they are its just difficult to tell because you only have 1 accent for every 30 miles and half the damn time i swear life needs subtitles to understand you
    So much like when the US kicked you limey bastards out of here how about you bend the knee and get to the fucking point
    (i mean we are going for stereotype insults here right??)
    I'm not actually ripping on countries. And I'm really rather indifferent to what you think about us and our TV. Nobody I know even watches TV these days. But hey, go on ranting.

    I suggest, however, that you calm down, because this really doesn't help your case. You need a lot thicker skin if you want to discuss gun controls on here.
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  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    so with current population US has about 10.3 firearm deaths per 100,000 ppl
    australia has .6 per 100,000 ppl
    australia has less than 30m ppl
    US has 323m
    "pretty close" as in "17 times as high"? You looked at the numbers per 100.000 people, dude.

    This thread went as expected.

    See you all in two weeks, to the "worst shooting in [...] ever" thread.
    Last edited by XDurionX; 2017-11-06 at 09:59 AM.

  5. #1005
    Deleted
    Only way to stop mass shooting is to carry even bigger and more guns. If the shooter carries automatic riffles then people need to be armed with bazookas.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Irlking View Post
    Only way to stop mass shooting is to carry even bigger and more guns. If the shooter carries automatic riffles then people need to be armed with bazookas.
    How would that even help? You'd be shot dead before you can react if someone got a gun.

  7. #1007
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Under Your Spell View Post
    How would that even help? You'd be shot dead before you can react if someone got a gun.
    Sigh it was sarcasm. Takes all the fun away when I have to explain it.

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irlking View Post
    Sigh it was sarcasm. Takes all the fun away when I have to explain it.
    It was pretty obvious too

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Not sure what you're trying to say here. I've never said the EU is a place full of saints where nothing bad ever happens. What I've said is that it's a safe place and every record and statistic in the book agrees with me.

    Suicide by gun is really an American thing, to be honest. Mostly, because our cops don't pull the gun and shoot at the slightest provocation. See, since our cops can expect most people to not have guns, they're really relaxed about shit and are super cool at deescalating situations. And since most people don't have access to guns on a regular basis, anything gun related really isn't the first thing that jumps to mind when people think about doing bullshit here.

    When you think "gun", we think "big ass kitchen knife". A gun crime in Europe with only 1-2 casualties is big enough to actually make the news. That's how few of those we get. In the US? News doesn't even report on gun deaths anymore. Because that's normal routine.

    Here, random headline today:

    http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justi...a-1176619.html

    This is one of our weekly magazines reporting about a hostage situation on their homepage. He's armed with "at least" a knife. That's how crime typically looks like in Europe. We still have bad dudes, just like you do. But unlike you, we know already that this dude won't be able to get more than 2, maybe 3 before he's overpowered and in custody.
    No I'm talking about the one thousand or so germans every year that suicide by gun. It might not seem like that a big of number but it happens in every country. Unfortunately here it is the number for of death by gun. I think we are around twenty one or twenty thousand per year. I think suicide by gun is something that needs to be addressed more than just trying to penalize people for lawfully owning guns.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    No I'm talking about the one thousand or so germans every year that suicide by gun. It might not seem like that a big of number but it happens in every country. Unfortunately here it is the number for of death by gun. I think we are around twenty one or twenty thousand per year. I think suicide by gun is something that needs to be addressed more than just trying to penalize people for lawfully owning guns.
    This isn't and has never been about penalizing people for lawfully owning guns. It's always been about making it less desirable and easy to own guns. Suicide rates are really not the issue here. Although, without looking, I know our statistics on suicides per 100k overall are probably lower than the US due to the general lack of guns in Europe. The lethality rates of gun suicides is much higher than that of knife or drug related suicides.

    But... that is a different topic, really. I don't have much sympathy or see the need to protect society from suicide by guns. That's a matter of protecting that individual from himself. If that fails, you have one victim that actually got what it wanted, so yeah not really concerned about that while talking in a thread about a mass shooting inside a church.
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  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    This isn't and has never been about penalizing people for lawfully owning guns. It's always been about making it less desirable and easy to own guns. Suicide rates are really not the issue here. Although, without looking, I know our statistics on suicides per 100k overall are probably lower than the US due to the general lack of guns in Europe. The lethality rates of gun suicides is much higher than that of knife or drug related suicides.

    But... that is a different topic, really. I don't have much sympathy or see the need to protect society from suicide by guns. That's a matter of protecting that individual from himself. If that fails, you have one victim that actually got what it wanted, so yeah not really concerned about that while talking in a thread about a mass shooting inside a church.
    Well it's related because the past two mass shootings have ended in suicide. It's a common feature that ties all of them together.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    No I'm talking about the one thousand or so germans every year that suicide by gun. It might not seem like that a big of number but it happens in every country. Unfortunately here it is the number for of death by gun. I think we are around twenty one or twenty thousand per year. I think suicide by gun is something that needs to be addressed more than just trying to penalize people for lawfully owning guns.
    Suicide by gun is <300 / year in germany. It happens, but it's very rare. Total number of suicides is ~10k/year.

  13. #1013
    there's nothing to debate about gun control, bearing arms is a constitutional right and the first politician that tries to deny that right is going to be starting a civil war. Even if hypothetically they banned guns, it would just create a lucrative black market trade that would run them across the mexican border. If the war on drugs is considered a failure then so would any war on guns be considered just as impossible. There's no answer to stopping people doing heinous acts if they choose to, much like there is nothing stopping people renting a truck and driving it through a crowd of people, it's a mental health issue.

  14. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    how many people in the US do you think own guns??
    because i can tell you it is nowhere near as many as you think
    That's actually pretty well known.. One third of the US households..
    320 million people, incl every baby every elder people who certainly don't have any.
    About 1 gun per person statistically. 1/3 of all US households have at least 1 firearm.
    If we attribute 1.5 people per household, we have about 213 million households. One third of that have firearms, that's 71 million households. That makes it roughly 106 million people with firearms in their homes.
    https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership...-three-charts/
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/...gun-ownership/
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...cs-maps-charts

    It is really not hard to delve into the topic, and look at all the various data that's already existing.
    Doesn't matter if the current administration effectively cancelled/prohibits any further research on the matter.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Well it's related because the past two mass shootings have ended in suicide. It's a common feature that ties all of them together.
    I'm not sure if suicide is really the obvious angle of attack here. Sure, it's there, and hey, do something about it, because it needs to be addressed. But it's a tough sell to tell the families "We feel your loss, we will make sure that mental health issues are addressed, so we will treat potential mass murderers with more care in the future."

    Couple things that jump to my mind about this...

    1. You don't know who's going to suicide like that before hand. Good luck weeding them out.
    2. Guns are much, much easier to regulate than mental health issues.
    3. GUNS are tying them together. Occam's razor is your friend here, as well. It's in the name: Mass SHOOTING. Not mass random weapon related suicide.

    What you want is immediate solutions, not long term medical plans that may or may not work out for you guys in the future.
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  16. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    No I'm talking about the one thousand or so germans every year that suicide by gun. It might not seem like that a big of number but it happens in every country.
    mhmm...


    that's a 7 years old data.. however the trend may still be the same.
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  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by btorz View Post
    there's nothing to debate about gun control, bearing arms is a constitutional right and the first politician that tries to deny that right is going to be starting a civil war. Even if hypothetically they banned guns, it would just create a lucrative black market trade that would run them across the mexican border. If the war on drugs is considered a failure then so would any war on guns be considered just as impossible. There's no answer to stopping people doing heinous acts if they choose to, much like there is nothing stopping people renting a truck and driving it through a crowd of people, it's a mental health issue.
    Australia imposed strict gun control laws.

    And big surprise, it worked. Mass shootings and firearm homicides decreased sharply. We aren't talking about drugs, here. We're talking about guns. Drugs are a strawman.


    Additionally, the constitution and its amendments can be interpreted different ways without repealing them. And I'd say the country's current interpretation of a "well-regulated militia," as described by the actual wording of the second amendment is sorely lacking.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by btorz View Post
    there's nothing to debate about gun control, bearing arms is a constitutional right and the first politician that tries to deny that right is going to be starting a civil war. Even if hypothetically they banned guns, it would just create a lucrative black market trade that would run them across the mexican border. If the war on drugs is considered a failure then so would any war on guns be considered just as impossible. There's no answer to stopping people doing heinous acts if they choose to, much like there is nothing stopping people renting a truck and driving it through a crowd of people, it's a mental health issue.
    A civil war that would be so one sided, heck, Brazil would pity you even after losing to Germany 1-7.

    It's not about absolutes. It's about reducing numbers. But extremist people really have trouble seeing the grey zone that makes 90% of the issues. They're so binary, really.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Australia imposed strict gun control laws.

    And big surprise, it worked. Mass shootings and firearm homicides decreased sharply. We aren't talking about drugs, here. We're talking about guns. Drugs are a strawman.


    Additionally, the constitution and its amendments can be interpreted different ways without repealing them. And I'd say the country's current interpretation of a "well-regulated militia," as described by the actual wording of the second amendment is sorely lacking.
    Actually, I've always wondered why they're not taking it literally. A well-regulated militia is literally (sic!) screaming for more gun regulation. What you see now is the opposite of well regulated. It's sorely lacking regulation, that's why people see guns as a toy rather than what they are. Lethal weapons.
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  19. #1019
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Well it's related because the past two mass shootings have ended in suicide. It's a common feature that ties all of them together.
    ...that's really not particularly relevant. Hell I don't know why people are bringing up suicide; I really don't think many people are arguing for gun control because they think it's the best way to stop people from killing themselves, or are arguing that it is the main goal of gun control.


    Frankly I don't particularly care whether people kill themselves with a gun or by jumping off a bridge as far as gun control statistics are concerned; what those people actually need is mental help above anything else. So I consider people bandying out "suicide by gun" statistics either in support of or trying to negate the merits of gun control to be diluting the argument; I'd say even intentionally obfuscating it in some cases.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by btorz View Post
    there's nothing to debate about gun control, bearing arms is a constitutional right and the first politician that tries to deny that right is going to be starting a civil war. Even if hypothetically they banned guns, it would just create a lucrative black market trade that would run them across the mexican border. If the war on drugs is considered a failure then so would any war on guns be considered just as impossible. There's no answer to stopping people doing heinous acts if they choose to, much like there is nothing stopping people renting a truck and driving it through a crowd of people, it's a mental health issue.
    There already is a lucrative black market trade that runs them across the Mexican border.
    How do you think Mexican drug cartels get all those illegal guns they have? From the US.

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