The new raid buffs.

[potis]

I dont play a DK but a friend does, spotted the new raid buffs here in case people didnt see and noticed something very worrying:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=275398/c...le-for-azeroth

DK's provide leech, and no one gives a fuck about leech overall, (Its not useless, its just not a DPS increase and barely a survivability increase), so unless with the stat squish that 5% is actually healing a lot (Which it wont), you know what i mean.

Everyone knows the majority follows what the top guilds do, and the top guild wont put a DK in for "Leech" if they dont bring the DPS also.

It should be changed to match the others imo.

Unless they go with the approach of "continuous raid damage" they like to do in cases were its relevant <3.

Just starting a discussion cause why not, as a raid leader, even at a casual setting nowadays i consider this a "Who gives a fuck" buff.

[Kaljurei]

It's not even alpha yet, although I do agree, leech is a completely inconsequential bonus compared to the DPS benefits the other classes provide.

[Deleted]

Legion Vampiric Aura (20% leech for 15 sec, 5 targets) is considered broken in M+ and good to have in raid.
The problem is not leech itself, but rather that 5% is borderline useless in msot situations.

[Piz813]

We gave icy talons to all a few xpac s ago. Perhaps something useful like that again?
Not a fan if this being brought back. As a filthy casual and someone who pugs raids nonstop to get better, I don't want to sit around waiting 20 min for a druid to que for MoW or kings or whatever. People get bored and leave.

[roflwaffle]

Legion Vampiric Aura (20% leech for 15 sec, 5 targets) is considered broken in M+ and good to have in raid.
The problem is not leech itself, but rather that 5% is borderline useless in msot situations.

i think it's mainly 5% because the buff is always up, and on everyone. in the long run of a fight, even with non consistent damage, that can be a lot of free healing.
(just pointing out that it's not bad, but yeah not a dps boost)

[Deleted]

i think it's mainly 5% because the buff is always up, and on everyone. in the long run of a fight, even with non consistent damage, that can be a lot of free healing.
(just pointing out that it's not bad, but yeah not a dps boost)

I don't think it's bad either, especially because we don't know yet how fights will play out and how the squish will affect it.
Just pointing out that an 8% would at least make it more desiderable.

[Zorish]

so... you call current warrior 3% leech bad? man TOP GUILDS will have EVERY of this raid buffs. cause this is RAID buffs so it will be enough to have 1 DK in raid for this buff at least. Or you think warrior+warrior shouts will stack? (don't be naive). only thing wich you could be afraid of "will DK do same/more damage as every other class UNDER every class buff in raid?"

[ONCHEhap]

Legion Vampiric Aura (20% leech for 15 sec, 5 targets) is considered broken in M+ and good to have in raid.
The problem is not leech itself, but rather that 5% is borderline useless in msot situations.

Depends,5% with 100% uptime is actually kinda decent

[Nnyco]

wheres horn of winter 5% str/agi buff?!?

ontopic tho, 5% leech perma is pretty strong unless healing is back to pre-legion where we just absorb everything

[Zorish]

wheres horn of winter 5% str/agi buff?!?

in the warrior kit.

Warrior:
Battle Shout Increases the Strength or Agility of all raid and party members within 100 yards by 5% for 1 hour.

every class will have unique buff (i think missed shaman buff is crit, or maaaaaybe multistrike)

[Deleted]

Not every class buff is a DPS buff:

Priests give 10% stamina, paladins armor and hunters movement speed - all of that is situational.
And some buffs are only specific to some classes/specs, e.g. mages provide int, which does nothing for non-casters while the warriors' buff does nothing for casters, and warlocks and rogues only bolster magical and physical damage respectively.

So while leech is probably not a "must have" buff, it is not like every other class has one of those.
Overall I think the idea was to give classes a "nice to haven one around" abilities, not a "must bring a DK or bust" situation.

and the top guild wont put a DK in for "Leech" if they dont bring the DPS also.

Isn't that how it is supposed to be?
Do you really want a situation where people bring a "shitty" DK and tell him "just stand there in the corner and don't die, because you're pretty useless overall, but we need your buff"?

[potis]

Not every class buff is a DPS buff:

Priests give 10% stamina, paladins armor and hunters movement speed - all of that is situational.
And some buffs are only specific to some classes/specs, e.g. mages provide int, which does nothing for non-casters while the warriors' buff does nothing for casters, and warlocks and rogues only bolster magical and physical damage respectively.

So while leech is probably not a "must have" buff, it is not like every other class has one of those.
Overall I think the idea was to give classes a "nice to haven one around" abilities, not a "must bring a DK or bust" situation.



Isn't that how it is supposed to be?
Do you really want a situation where people bring a "shitty" DK and tell him "just stand there in the corner and don't die, because you're pretty useless overall, but we need your buff"?

My point was that top guilds usually can dodge mechanics, and unless there is passive aoe dmg going on from the boss, they couldnt care less for leech.

Quick example is how many world firsts are done with less healers over the last 5 years for that very reason, they can dodge mechanics and their healers can handle the stuff, therefor leech is pretty much useless for them considering top guilds also do the content with less gear than the average other guilds that farm X numbers of bosses for months, once again, example of World Firsts being done in pretty much equal ilvl of the instance, versus 3 months after kills where everyone is 15 ilvls above the raid.

So unless the raid philosophy returns to "Low aoe healing" and "lots of passive damage to heal" leech wont be that effective and it will cost DKs.

This is just a discussion cause we all know how the raiding community works, and how it affects the pugging and everyone else.

Leech isnt useless, but the community is retarded, and this particular buff is the obvious shit that will come up the way the retarded WoW community is.

[Dracodraco]

You're kidding me right.
The buffs are present so you can defend taking an underperforming class/spec, if that player is good and you want them in the setup, because they'll still provide something useful (EG; You want to bring an unholy DK in tomb, but rogues does everything better - "well, Dk does give 5% leech as a bonus, so might be okay to bring the DK").

I also find this part super fucking stupid:

so unless with the stat squish that 5% is actually healing a lot (Which it wont), you know what i mean

5% is 5%. If we take a fight like Maiden, where there's a constant ticking aura (and the leech is most likely to not be overhealing), a 5% raidwide leech aura would for my raid, this week, give:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

23.1M * 0.05 = 1.115M HPS spread over all the DPS.
8.1M * 0.05 = 405K HPS spread over all the healing.

Or about 1.5M raw HPS. That's about what you expect a healer to do. It won't cause you to drop a healer in most scenarios during progress, but if you think 5% permanent leech isn't actually hugely beneficial to a raid, you have NOT tried progress raiding where every bit of output matters yet. It's like losing an entire fucking healer that's just passively sitting in the background and trying to help keep the entire raid stable.

[Mad_Murdock]

We gave icy talons to all a few xpac s ago. Perhaps something useful like that again?
Not a fan if this being brought back. As a filthy casual and someone who pugs raids nonstop to get better, I don't want to sit around waiting 20 min for a druid to que for MoW or kings or whatever. People get bored and leave.

I'm with you, it was a little weird at first, but I'm glad raid buffs went away. Now we'll be back to listening to the arguments of why this class won't be brought because they don't bring a cool enough buff and the forums will overflow with "I got sat" tears.

[potis]

snip

You used a specific fight to back up your discussion which shows how weak your argument is in the first place.

What i am talking about is how the community is affected by higher tier guilds, and a higher tier guild,which you arent with your 4-5th month kill after release will make all the mongoloids create a non-existent problem because Leech isnt a DPS increase.

You are literally trying to compare, 5% extra Physical damage that the rogue will give as example, with the 5% Leech.

We dont know the fights yet, but as i said, unless we go back to "Low AoE healing" period, where Leech would become really relevant, this will create a problem for the majority of the (retarded) community, and how it will affect DKs.

It only takes 1 kill or 1 streamer/top guild wording for the retards to follow and create a terrible experience.

I am not talking how the logical progressing raiders will view this, Leech is of course useful, and even more useful if there is constant damage going on.

I am only saying, how it will affect the DK overall, unless they bring relevant performance too as a class for the majority of the idiotic community.

[Deleted]

what ? even 3% leech aura that prot warriors have right now is on constant dmg taken (Maiden, Avatar 2nd phase) like a half or even 2/3 of a healer.

[Deleted]

My point was that top guilds usually can dodge mechanics, and unless there is passive aoe dmg going on from the boss, they couldnt care less for leech.

Well I can't really think of a fight in ToS without unavoidable raid damage. So I'm fairly sure we won't see a patchwork fight with only tank damage.

Quick example is how many world firsts are done with less healers over the last 5 years for that very reason, they can dodge mechanics and their healers can handle the stuff,

Actually that would be a point in favor of leech wouldn't it? It allows you to bring even less healers, since everyone now has a weak "baseline heal".

So unless the raid philosophy returns to "Low aoe healing" and "lots of passive damage to heal" leech wont be that effective and it will cost DKs.

Well the boss fights I've healed so far, all had significant raid damage in them at least in some parts of the fight.

I am only saying, how it will affect the DK overall, unless they bring relevant performance too as a class for the majority of the idiotic community.

If people don't bring DKs because their performance sucks, then THAT performance is the problem, not a buff that would want you to bring them anyway.

[Puri]

I am not sure if you're serious, but a 5% leech aura would currently heal more than a healer in a 20 player raid with an average of 1.5m dps. In a fight with constant AoE and hard damage check it might even be mandatory to have a DK.

[Ealyssa]

5% free leech is really powerfull. The only thing missing is that bonus leech should count to the caster's HPS.

Just like the current BDK weapon buff, extremly underrated by garbage players, extremely valued on high end.

[potis]

5% free leech is really powerfull. The only thing missing is that bonus leech should count to the caster's HPS.

Just like the current BDK weapon buff, extremly underrated by garbage players, extremely valued on high end.

And guess what the majority of this game is?

Thats what i mean, we know how stupid the community is, i dont see how people dont get it