Battle for Azeroth - Discussion/Changes ALPHA

[keqe]

You don't need to explain it, that's a given. My concern still holds true. 100 mastery is not the same at the start of the expansion, in the middle of it and at later stages.

This is exactly why prot paladins are constantly complaining about Serpahim being flat increase too. I'm saying "flat" only in terms of skill numbers only. Obviously it goes with everyone's mastery being %s, but comparative power is still different. Let's say mastery gives a spec straightforward +% damage. Giving +10% with a buff would increase player's damage by 10% accordingly, but giving the same 10% mastery to the character who already have 50% mastery would only net him ~6.67% increased damage. It would only get worse down the expansion with occasional spikes with rating inflation changes (if there is any, like in legion).

It's nice that it's universal to all classes unlike rogues 5% to physical, but 5% is still an insane number

That is true. But in your example you used versatility which has the exact same "problem".

That 3% versatility would be the same as if it gave 1424 versatility rating. It is the same thing yet somehow better?


And I agree rogue/warlock buffs are crazy powerful. It is very likely they will be dropped to 3% for example if they even stay that way.

[Deleted]

One thing I really want for brewmaster is Black Ox Statue baseline as it used to be...

and Dizzying Haze

[ReD-EyeD]

That is true. But in your example you used versatility which has the exact same "problem".

That 3% versatility would be the same as if it gave 1424 versatility rating. It is the same thing yet somehow better?

3% increase in versatility would be 3% increase regardless of a character it is on. While mastery would be like increase your overall dps/heal/tanking by 2% if it's a first month of the expansion and 1.8% if it's a last month.

Honestly, it's a minmaxing to it's fullest, but I still don't like it. It's not clean, elegant and informative enough as a party/raid buff.

[keqe]

3% increase in versatility would be 3% increase regardless of a character it is on. While mastery would be like increase your overall dps/heal/tanking by 2% if it's a first month of the expansion and 1.8% if it's a last month.

Honestly, it's a minmaxing to it's fullest, but I still don't like it. It's not clean, elegant and informative enough as a party/raid buff.

You don't seem to understand that versatility has the same exact problem.

If your character has 0 versatility, that 3% versatility is 3% increase to your output. Simple.

But if your character already has 50% versatility. It goes to 53%

That is only 2% increase to your output.

It has the same relative diminishing return as mastery. Each point gives you same amount of damage. Thus later the relative % increase between points is lower.

[ReD-EyeD]

You don't seem to understand that versatility has the same exact problem.

I understand. May be my english wasn't enough to relay my idea. I meant mastery is insanely volatile compared to any other buff. We could have had hunter's movement buff or crit, or something like increased crit damage/heal (similar to tauren/dwarf mastery) and so on.

[Deleted]

for ww i hope they get rid of mark of the crane, and make spinning crane kick cost energy again and give chi if hits X enemies. Xuen baseline dps cd to replace sef or atleast have it be a viable choice again, and have tiger eye brew back.

[Swalload]

As the title says, what are your hopes for monks next expansion? They said they aren't doing any drastic changes for classes this expansion so I expect monks to play similarly to how they do now.

Things that we do know so far:
- leg sweep nerfed to a 3 second stun from 5
- magic Damage on stagger being reduced from 40% effectiveness to 20%
- hot blooded trait is becoming a passive on breath of fire

No changes that I could find on the other specs so far and obviously things can change. The alpha isn't even out yet. The changes so far make me a little sad but getting the hot blooded trait as a passive will be nice.

Well it's quite early to talk about changes in BfA. Hell, it's early to talk about class balances for the Antorus patch even. Just chill, if you make a thread everytime they change that until BfA you'll just break your keyboard.

[Deleted]

I honestly just want to see Mark of the Crane removed. Fully relying on tab-targeting in order to AoE is the antithesis of fun to me.

[Usagi Senshi]

I honestly just want to see Mark of the Crane removed. Fully relying on tab-targeting in order to AoE is the antithesis of fun to me.

This! Basically is the same annoying shit that made me quit my shaman in Cata/WoD with manually spreading flame shocks for aoe along with two other steps.

I'll be playing my warrior (that Nightborne newness) more next expansion but will also be playing my monk for M+ as well.

[Deleted]

I honestly just want to see Mark of the Crane removed. Fully relying on tab-targeting in order to AoE is the antithesis of fun to me.

mark of the crane is worst mechanic they have ever given to monk atleast with rushing jade wind before they gutted it it was bearable.

[Lucavian]

That is true. But in your example you used versatility which has the exact same "problem".

That 3% versatility would be the same as if it gave 1424 versatility rating. It is the same thing yet somehow better?


And I agree rogue/warlock buffs are crazy powerful. It is very likely they will be dropped to 3% for example if they even stay that way.

Actually that's not true. It only changes as you level. If it takes you 100 mastery to get 1% towards WW mastery at the beginning of the expansion, 100 mastery will give you 1% towards WW mastery at the end of the expansion. It's literally the same thing as if they gave 5% worth of haste as haste rating instead of haste %. The reason it is different is as someone said, mastery rating changes differently for different specs.

[Raakel]

Bring back old BrM! Pre Legion changes.....

[ReD-EyeD]

If it takes you 100 mastery to get 1% towards WW mastery at the beginning of the expansion, 100 mastery will give you 1% towards WW mastery at the end of the expansion.

No, Blizzard alter ratings to fight stat inflation. Last one was just before the Nighthold. It is very important for classes that depends a lot on a specific stat. Fire mages and crit is an example. 100 mastery at the start of the expansion is not the same as 100 mastery at the end. That kinda was my whole point.

[Raakel]

Also tier 1 (15) talents of all three specs feel incredibly weak.

I wish there where more fistweaving options for Mistweavers again. Turn Spirit of the Crane into real damage talent. I would scrifice Mist Wrap for that easily. Increase Zen Pulse damage and healing by 50% and we should be there.

[keqe]

Actually that's not true. It only changes as you level. If it takes you 100 mastery to get 1% towards WW mastery at the beginning of the expansion, 100 mastery will give you 1% towards WW mastery at the end of the expansion. It's literally the same thing as if they gave 5% worth of haste as haste rating instead of haste %. The reason it is different is as someone said, mastery rating changes differently for different specs.

It is the exact same thing. Haste is an exception with its multiplicative nature.

With your example if it takes 100 versatility to get 1% versatility at beginning of expansion, 100 versatility gives 1% toward versatility at end of expansion. I have no idea what you even meant with that sentence but it is the same thing for versatility. They both are additive values so they work the exact same way.

That's the thing. That versatility IS given as if you were given 5% haste as rating. That's the point. It is additive to your own versatility so it has EXACT same issue as mastery buff.

If you have a lot of mastery, mastery buff is relatively weaker.

If you have a lot of versatility, versatility buff is relatively weaker.

[Lucavian]

It is the exact same thing. Haste is an exception with its multiplicative nature.

With your example if it takes 100 versatility to get 1% versatility at beginning of expansion, 100 versatility gives 1% toward versatility at end of expansion. I have no idea what you even meant with that sentence but it is the same thing for versatility. They both are additive values so they work the exact same way.

That's the thing. That versatility IS given as if you were given 5% haste as rating. That's the point. It is additive to your own versatility so it has EXACT same issue as mastery buff.

If you have a lot of mastery, mastery buff is relatively weaker.

If you have a lot of versatility, versatility buff is relatively weaker.

I wasn't talking about the relative gains, I was talking about the conversion. I thought they were confused on set ratings of mastery versus % given out on other stats. Also, I don't think we should consider a mid-expansion stat modification a standard adjustment. I wouldn't expect them to do that again in BfA since they only did it to fix something they thought was broken.

[shammypie]

Zandalari monks please.

This and less death from falling

[Sunspear]

For WW - lord I never want to see Tiger's Eye Brew again. But we definitely need a retool on AOE capabilities.
For MW - Revival needs a buff but mostly what I want is Way of the Crane (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=216113/way-of-the-crane) to become baseline and bring back a bit of the DPS to heal Monk style.

[Deleted]

1) Give staffs back to WW monks :-(

2) Give back the old Brewmasters

[keqe]

I wasn't talking about the relative gains, I was talking about the conversion. I thought they were confused on set ratings of mastery versus % given out on other stats. Also, I don't think we should consider a mid-expansion stat modification a standard adjustment. I wouldn't expect them to do that again in BfA since they only did it to fix something they thought was broken.

The point of discussion is that 3% versatility is in some way superior to flat mastery rating because 3% versatility is "always the same". Which is completely untrue and the only point I am trying to make.

My only point is that versatility could just say the increase in ratings and it would work the same yet people would consider it worse for some reason.

If mastery is weaker or stronger for some class is irrelevant. So is the value of versatility different compared to other stats for different specs.