Mafia 95: The Daily Newspaper

[dupti]

listo playing Amateur Writer was found dead in the morning.



Game is over - The Newsmakers have won.

Congratulations Cruelle, Graeham and Reticence!

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Quicktopics:

Town:
Citizen(Danner): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/QadANUWadks
Citizen(Marack): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/98C7ZEKEpSy
Citizen(Valyrian): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pfMqKpHYpMdW
Amateur Writer(listo): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/r4kuf5dGtT7
Retired Doctor(Kryllian): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/EWxcubeiwZcEw
Photographer(Virothe): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/y4URtLsMYSJ
Detective(A-sayo): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/CPFMLZ7iNaJ
Reporter(Largehorn): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jBiHSg6dCixyd

Neutral:
Freelancer(Crackleslap): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/nk836Y6e8GKH

Scum:
The Newsmakers(Cruelle, Graeham, Reticence): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/nRMFJ7tmPM2y

Deadthread: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Ms3B3fM2w3v

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The ending:
I'd just like to comment on the ending, thought it was pretty interesting how mafia wanted to avoid the doc by killing the target they thought the doctor trusted the least (and thus would not protect), so they killed listo. Kryllian (the doc) however trusted listo the most, but expected mafia to go for a safe kill as well and so he decided to protect someone who he thought mafia would consider a safe kill (Largehorn). WIFOM at it's best eh.

Balancing:
As I already mentioned in the signup thread, this game was created with longer days in mind which naturally also results in a different game/meta. While the setup overall works fine, there are a couple of things I probably should've adjusted for MMO-C. One thing I discussed in the dead thread as well, was the lack of a cop. Personally I do not think town should ever rely on a cop (could die d1/n1 or just before giving any information), but I also understand that we pretty much always have a cop here so some players may tend to sit a bit back until they hear from the cop/see his flip. I'm not sure a cop would've changed much, but a guilty/innocent check obviously influences the game. There was no need for a cop before, but I think I should've added one for this game.

The actual game:
I mean scum played pretty well, they were never really in danger of getting lynched at any point during the game. The kill on Danner was really good. Danner was only a VT but his reads were very good and they definitely had to get rid of him as soon as possible.

Other than that I don't think town overall played that poorly, while I wasn't the biggest fan of the A-sayo lynch I don't think either A-sayo or Val really tried to fight their lynch. So yeah while I did not really like the push on A-sayo I think he could have done a better job at defending himself and same obviously applies for Val, although I can definitely understand why they pushed on him.

Regarding the newspaper I thought it was pretty interesting how it was approached. Obviously you couldn't really do anything about it d1 since you had no information, but you did actually gain quite a bit of information d2/n2. Like you saw 2 articles, 2 anonymous messages and the daily joke.
As for the articles, Largehorn claimed his role and his article d2, while no one claimed the other article (the one which claimed Danner was guilty). Danner died during the night and flipped town, so seeing as no one claimed to have written the article that claimed Danner was guilty it was probably fair to assume that it was most likely a scum who wrote it.

As for the anonymous messages, you knew one of them came from a confirmed tpr (A-sayo) whereas Graeham claimed to have written the other one. That doesn't really say anything about Graeham's alignment, but I am really surprised that Graeham managed to avoid attention. He claimed to have the ability to submit an anonymous message yet never claimed or even hinted at his actual role. The other play who was able to send anonymous messages was a tpr, guess indicate Graeham could be a TPR as well, but given the lack of claim and information + the fact that he revealed he sent the anonymous messages for no apparent reason, should probably imply that it is unlikely he is a TPR. Possible he was some glorified VT of some sort, you obviously have no idea since you don't know the setup, but in either case I am surprised no one tried to question him more. But well, I am obviously biased.

Anyway thanks for playing, I promise I'll try to balance other setups in the future around shorter days.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Thanks for hosting the game Dupti!

[Graeham]

Thanks for the game! I had a lot of fun - I'm pleased that my scum team managed to get by completely unscathed.

[Reticence]

Aw, yes. Flawless victory. (Though if it had gone on for one more day things could have gotten complicated.)

Personally I do not think town should ever rely on a cop (could die d1/n1 or just before giving any information), but I also understand that we pretty much always have a cop here so some players may tend to sit a bit back until they hear from the cop/see his flip. I'm not sure a cop would've changed much, but a guilty/innocent check obviously influences the game. There was no need for a cop before, but I think I should've added one for this game.

Perhaps. I find players' reliance on cops to be one reason to not include them. I think it makes for a more interesting game, even if the scum team starts panicking near end-game ("Why hasn't the cop claimed?!")

That doesn't really say anything about Graeham's alignment, but I am really surprised that Graeham managed to avoid attention.

I was a little surprised at this, as well. It was probably the one spot where I broke town-Ret character pretty hard, too; normally I would have focused him more, but he was doing a fine job of flying under the radar and I was worried about messing that up for him.

Thanks for the game, Dupti.

- - - Updated - - -

The ending:
I'd just like to comment on the ending, thought it was pretty interesting how mafia wanted to avoid the doc by killing the target they thought the doctor trusted the least (and thus would not protect), so they killed listo. Kryllian (the doc) however trusted listo the most, but expected mafia to go for a safe kill as well and so he decided to protect someone who he thought mafia would consider a safe kill (Largehorn). WIFOM at it's best eh.

It doesn't really change your point about WIFOM at all, but the thought behind targeting Listo was not that he was distrusted, but that he wasn't a priority for protection due to claiming a fluff role.

I had a feeling Kryllian was the doctor, and was going to suggest that we block Kryllian and kill Virothe, but I started to second-guess my read of the situation pretty hard. xD In the end, I figured Cru and I balance each other out pretty well, so since he seemed to be more confident than I was it was best to not overthink it and let him go with his gut.

[Kryllian]

Thanks for the game!

[Virothe]

Other than that I don't think town overall played that poorly

I think town played fairly well, I think the main issue here was just a real lack of counter push from accused parties. I was annoyed with A-Sayo because he broke a lot of rules you shouldn't break as town and then didn't have the inclinations to back up anything he did. It was mostly just played off as a joke or like he couldn't be bothered.

- - - Updated - - -

Also my interview went well, I was right to doubt crues claim and being town.

[Deleted]

I love the no cop thing it should be implemented more. Graeham flew under the radar very well and no one mentioned him at all which I felt was worrying for town. No one discussed how it could be lylo yesterday, which surprised me.

As for game balance. I dislike the watcher role, so much so I removed Giles from my Buffy game. But it totally works for this game. It most certainly balances the game nicely with no cop. I liked the newspaper mechanic. I thoroughly enjoyed playing this game and wouldn't have minded playing it on a bigger scale.

Thanks for the game Dupti.

[listo95]

So did people enjoy my editor messages? I have some regarding the lynches/NKs in my QT if you wanna read those!

[Virothe]

I love the no cop thing it should be implemented more.

As for game balance. I dislike the watcher role.

Kinda gonna debate something here, The main reason the cop role is a staple is because it's a firm Innocent/Guilty while the tracker/Watcher roles rely heavily off luck because not only do you need the luck to catch someone in the act they also need to be a guilty party.

The biggest issue in this game is that we literally didn't have enough time to really get anything, even if A-Sayo lived through D2 and a VT had died that's still only 2 nights of tracking he gets and it's just not enough information feeding in to town to get anywhere.

Town needed an informant role or something of that nature, "Pull up random posts in this persons QT" Anything that would have given an unfiltered look at people. Without it it was going to be a minor miracle to catch scum in something incriminating enough to push.

Hell an actual chain of events that could have occured this game is "Watcher watches X die, Tracker Watches Watcher visit X" which then ties three people together, outs both investigation roles and potentially eventually kills a single scum.

[Deleted]

Stuff.

I mostly go along with what your saying here, I would only differ on perhaps the luck factor. In a smaller game I think tracker/watcher combo are far more dangerous than in a larger game. Maybe you would have got more information had the Mafia not had role blocker.

I think I like the idea that a cop shouldn't always be needed and that it presents the mod the challenge of compensating for that loss.

I strongly agree with your last bit about the chain of events that could have taken place. I believe the watcher role to be detrimental to town. You and I have played games where it has essentially destroyed towns tprs at the cost of just 1 scum, hence why you'll probably never see the role in my games.

[Virothe]

In a smaller game I think tracker/watcher combo are far more dangerous than in a larger game.

I strongly agree with your last bit about the chain of events that could have taken place. I believe the watcher role to be detrimental to town. You and I have played games where it has essentially destroyed towns tprs at the cost of just 1 scum, hence why you'll probably never see the role in my games.

I don't disagree that they can be a danger, but the issue is they are just as likely to be a danger to the town as they are to the scum and do require some luck to benefit the town.

That said, the watcher/tracker roles require patience and tact to play and with a literal 3 day game we didn't have time to gather anything. You need the time to track/watch see a night action then push that person in the main thread watch their relationship with the other party (Assuming they lived) or see their actions with others if the visited party died.

[Graeham]

A pair of masons would have been pretty neat for town, I think.

I'll admit to being a bit biased but I don't really like the cop role very much simply because it sometimes feels very cheap. Someone may play incredibly well as scum yet be caught out simply through a night action. Plus there's been games where scum have been lynched on D1, a guilty result on another has emerged on N1 and the the remaining scum is effectively playing a losing battle for the remainder of the game.

[Virothe]

A pair of masons would have been pretty neat for town, I think.

I'll admit to being a bit biased but I don't really like the cop role very much simply because it sometimes feels very cheap. Someone may play incredibly well as scum yet be caught out simply through a night action. Plus there's been games where scum have been lynched on D1, a guilty result on another has emerged on N1 and the the remaining scum is effectively playing a losing battle for the remainder of the game.

I feel that some form of verification role is needed though, or the games have to be constructed to last longer, short days with no way to verify are kinda brutal unless town gets some real good stuff going on off the bat.

[Largehorn]

Good game and well played there scum.

As my article today would have said I was pretty sure the game was over. XD

But it's a good thing that there were three of you. I had what I felt was a decent case to push onto Ret for tomorrow! But alas I wasn't fast enough.

I think Dupti made a decent point about Val/A-sayo counter pushing their lynches. A-sayo's I think is really just inexperience but Ret touched on it as his pushing for my lynch. Things just kind of "fell" off me because I pushed back as hard as I could on the lynches coming my way. Places to grow for everyone.

That said @Virothe thank you for not being scum. I read you as town so hard that had you been... I don't think I could have ever trusted you again :P

[Virothe]

That said @Virothe thank you for not being scum. I read you as town so hard that had you been... I don't think I could have ever trusted you again :P

I would feel a lot better about my affiliation if I hadn't helped get most of the town lynched >.<

[Graeham]

I would feel a lot better about my affiliation if I hadn't helped get most of the town lynched >.<

You can be the special fourth member of our scum team!

[A-sayo]

Thank you for hosting the game, dupti. ^-^

[Danner]

Thanks for the game dupti.

I think this game wasn't terribly off on the balance side; I also think longer days would have made for a much better town result. I guess this is what happens when it takes 48 hours to get a proper conversation going, unfortunately.

I had much fun at least.

[listo95]

Thanks for the game dupti.

I think this game wasn't terribly off on the balance side; I also think longer days would have made for a much better town result. I guess this is what happens when it takes 48 hours to get a proper conversation going, unfortunately.

I had much fun at least.

This pretty much sums my thoughts also. I also had a blast purely from my editor messages! Poor KLT lost all their members...