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  1. #1

    Worried about Rogue in T21



    Looking at these sims, all 3 specs seem to have dropped considerably. Every other class in the game has atleast one spec that performs better than ALL 3 of the rogue spec, with Fury doing around 35% more than outlaw and 25% more than our highest dps spec (sub). I assume there will be balance changes during heroic, but I can't say I'm not worried about the class in the next tier.

  2. #2
    Sims don't always tell how a spec will perform in a tier, as certain fights favor some specs more than others. But this sim chart does show just how poor rogue scaling has been in Legion. Our secondary stat scaling is piss-poor compared to other classes and I really hope blizz addresses haste for rogues in BfA or at least add agi back on Jewlery.

  3. #3
    Those sims are pretty irrelevant considering we haven't gotten the balance patch for Antorus yet aka 7.3.5. Also, that list seems a little shady since its completely missing Enhance shamans

  4. #4
    Im in full mythic tier with bis everything pretty much.. simming just shy of 1.5 mil as sub and 1.3 assass. Its missing specs. Havoc is certainly not 2nd.

    Where is this list coming from?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekroman View Post
    Im in full mythic tier with bis everything pretty much.. simming just shy of 1.5 mil as sub and 1.3 assass. Its missing specs. Havoc is certainly not 2nd.

    Where is this list coming from?
    Havoc set bonus is looking really good bud. This is official t21 simulationcraft.org sims. They're sims for the next tier man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerroth View Post
    Those sims are pretty irrelevant considering we haven't gotten the balance patch for Antorus yet aka 7.3.5. Also, that list seems a little shady since its completely missing Enhance shamans
    The folks at simulationcraft just got around to adding warrior today. I don't know what you're sketched out about. These things take time for theorycrafters to work on action priority lists etc. They don't just spew bullshit into the community.
    Last edited by rootbeerboy; 2017-11-12 at 04:21 PM.

  6. #6
    Ex build is fine for reference but I would also like to see how poison build stacks up...since I think most Sin rogues still use that atm.
    I will "worry" after day one of the raid.
    No sense in doing it now.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerroth View Post
    Those sims are pretty irrelevant considering we haven't gotten the balance patch for Antorus yet aka 7.3.5. Also, that list seems a little shady since its completely missing Enhance shamans
    Patch 7.3.5 =/= Antorus.

  8. #8
    So this list is trying to say havoc gains over 1mil dps from gear upgrades and set bonuses (rough avg) where sub gains 400-600k? This seems way off. Of course, feelscraft and tier to tier comparisons aren’t the best way to judge

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    So this list is trying to say havoc gains over 1mil dps from gear upgrades and set bonuses (rough avg) where sub gains 400-600k? This seems way off. Of course, feelscraft and tier to tier comparisons aren’t the best way to judge
    thought rogues had awful scaling plus that the tier bonus that sub has sucks balls, 2 set is alright but fucking boring, 4-set is awful you can procc it back to back which sucks.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    So this list is trying to say havoc gains over 1mil dps from gear upgrades and set bonuses (rough avg) where sub gains 400-600k? This seems way off. Of course, feelscraft and tier to tier comparisons aren’t the best way to judge
    My havoc sims for 1685000 the dps gain to this sim is only like 750k for me. And I know a dh who sims 100k more than me.

    Sub doesn't even sim that high right now.. they're just able to exploit mechanics of shuriken combo. Honestly.. after rogues worth in tomb of sargeras it'd be nice to see you guys less needed and in a worse spot.
    Last edited by rootbeerboy; 2017-11-12 at 03:55 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rootbeerboy View Post
    My havoc sims for 1685000 the dps gain to this sim is only like 750k for me. And I know a dh who sims 100k more than me.

    Sub doesn't even sim that high right now.. they're just able to exploit mechanics of shuriken combo. Honestly.. after rogues worth in tomb of sargeras it'd be nice to see you guys less needed and in a worse spot.
    rogue were mostly only taken because they can soak shit.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    rogue were mostly only taken because they can soak shit.

    Soaks along with exploiting shuriken combo on desolate host and mistress sasszine rogue is a powerful class on mistress and that was the first real boss for a lot of guilds.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rootbeerboy View Post
    My havoc sims for 1685000 the dps gain to this sim is only like 750k for me. And I know a dh who sims 100k more than me.

    Sub doesn't even sim that high right now.. they're just able to exploit mechanics of shuriken combo. Honestly.. after rogues worth in tomb of sargeras it'd be nice to see you guys less needed and in a worse spot.
    I freely admit i was guesstimating. Thats still a massive increase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iettlopp View Post
    rogue were mostly only taken because they can soak shit.
    Good sub rogue, without shuriken combo can do 1.7m easy.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by enragedgorilla View Post
    Ex build is fine for reference but I would also like to see how poison build stacks up...since I think most Sin rogues still use that atm.
    I will "worry" after day one of the raid.
    No sense in doing it now.
    According to the sims on the Ravenholdt discord, the best poison build sims about 45k less than the top exsang build in t21.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    I freely admit i was guesstimating. Thats still a massive increase.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Good sub rogue, without shuriken combo can do 1.7m easy.

    Shuriken combo fights should give on average higher single target. On average. Like most classes there's rng involved with parsing. The top players on fights not only played well.. but got superb rng in most cases.

  16. #16
    During Q&A about 7.3, Ion said there will be class balances not in 7.3 but shortly after Antorus release in 7.3.2 (so in the same time of the Mythic release i think).

    The last class balance was for 7.2.5 and since we take maybe 30 iLvls. The scaling of rogue is weird, so we have to wait until the new class balance next month to set the record straight.

  17. #17
    Way to early to be worried. Need the results from the tuning phase after mythic raid is released. Everything prior is useless data. That said if we're still shit after that tuning phase then we're fucked

  18. #18
    Rogue definitely seem to be behind the rest of the dps pack based on these sims. Who knows how accurate they will be once live data starts streaming in.

    I'm currently considering either Havoc or Sin for next tier, and although DH looks strong, the build it's using will be two buttons plus eye beam, which doesn't seem that fun to me so I may stick with Sin anyway despite the numbers gap.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tier539 View Post


    Looking at these sims, all 3 specs seem to have dropped considerably. Every other class in the game has atleast one spec that performs better than ALL 3 of the rogue spec, with Fury doing around 35% more than outlaw and 25% more than our highest dps spec (sub). I assume there will be balance changes during heroic, but I can't say I'm not worried about the class in the next tier.


    Dunno what level you play at and how long you've played wow. But Rogues always have a spot so dw about it.

    Plus its to earlie to be worried about the deeps.

  20. #20
    We just can't look at T21 sims without T21 balances that are coming.

    As i said above :

    "The last class balance was for 7.2.5 and since we take maybe 30 iLvls. The scaling of rogue is weird, so we have to wait until the new class balance next month to set the record straight."

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