What a waste of talent

[JohnnyMccrum]

Golden era was in WotLK btw. Had almost twice as many subs in the end of WotLK vs peak in Vanilla. Heck peak in Cata(start of it) had even bit more. Lets go back to the "golden era".

i'm not going to insult you because i'd get an infraction, but it takes a whole, whole, whole lot of crazy wild logic to land at Cataclysm being the peak of WoW, initial curiosity doesn't equal a golden era, you need to remember cataclysm had a whole lot of hype generated by people like Totalbiscuit during the beta, instability shortly afterwards doesn't equal a golden era either. You need to remember the radiating effect of the expansion being bad had to multiply from friend circle to friend circle until everyone collectively left, upkeep of the initial idea that cataclysm sucked was delayed.

The game only grew from vanilla, AND BC AND TLK. All three were "golden eras" for WoW, TLK took what both Vanilla and BC laid down previously, it didn't utterly devastate massive foundations of the game like Cataclysm did. (see flying, leveling, raid finder)

The true sweet spot in my opinion is mid BC before BT. If I had my way I'd integrate that content and rebalance it for "vanilla".

I personally think Cataclsym was a great time period for fun balanced PVP, but not much else.

[Doffen]

i'm not going to insult you because i'd get an infraction, but it takes a whole, whole, whole lot of crazy wild logic to land at Cataclysm being the peak of WoW, initial curiosity doesn't equal a golden era, you need to remember cataclysm had a whole lot of hype generated by people like Totalbiscuit during the beta, instability shortly afterwards doesn't equal a golden era either. You need to remember the radiating effect of the expansion being bad had to multiply from friend circle to friend circle until everyone collectively left, upkeep of the initial idea that cataclysm sucked was delayed.

The game only grew from vanilla, AND BC AND TLK. All three were "golden eras" for WoW, TLK took what both Vanilla and BC laid down previously, it didn't utterly devastate massive foundations of the game like Cataclysm did. (see flying, leveling, raid finder)

The true sweet spot in my opinion is mid BC before BT. If I had my way I'd integrate that content and rebalance it for "vanilla".

I personally think Cataclsym was a great time period for fun balanced PVP, but not much else.

Golden Era means when the game was most popular wich was in wotlk, start cata. Insult as much as you want, but thats just fact. Read, WotLK. Highest sub count was in start of cata. Doesn't mean its good.

Cata was mediocre, for me TBC was awesome. Still not golden era though. Maybe look up what a golden era means before you try to be cool.

[Zerroth]

Chill,wow classic is gonna last 2 months top once ppl see how horrid it was,theres gonna be 10k ppl online across all classic realms within 2 months.Meanwhile i'm preparing my "i told you so.." speech XD

10k is a sustainable number that I would be happy to be a part of

[Deficineiron]

WoW took a turn for the worse when the developers were no longer able and unwilling to make unpopular decisions for the longterm health of a better game. Or simply adding terribly out of place systems just because it's different instead of true innovation. Garrisons, mission tables, titanforging, endless treadmill of artifact grinding....all terrible and belong in a Diablo ARPG not a MMO.

at some point blizz chose or was told to choose to bring in a lot more metrics-oriented game design (they even started posting metrics on new raids at one point, giving some hint of how important that stat was internally). You might be surprised, but high % participation and completion means players are having FUN. Artifact treadmill grind isn't onerous, because people are still doing it, so it is successful game design.

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Golden Era means when the game was most popular wich was in wotlk, start cata. Insult as much as you want, but thats just fact. Read, WotLK. Highest sub count was in start of cata. Doesn't mean its good.

Cata was mediocre, for me TBC was awesome. Still not golden era though. Maybe look up what a golden era means before you try to be cool.

golden era is a semi-mythical condition created in part by blizzard only giving worldwide sub numbers. Western sub peak was just after wotlk release (china did not get wotlk for 10 more months). I think it is fair to say late bc/3.0.x was the 'golden era.'
by 3.4 etc. worldwide subs hit 12m again but that was because china hit new sub highs then and for quarters prior since they changed to netease from the9.

[Doffen]

at some point blizz chose or was told to choose to bring in a lot more metrics-oriented game design (they even started posting metrics on new raids at one point, giving some hint of how important that stat was internally). You might be surprised, but high % participation and completion means players are having FUN. Artifact treadmill grind isn't onerous, because people are still doing it, so it is successful game design.

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golden era is a semi-mythical condition created in part by blizzard only giving worldwide sub numbers. Western sub peak was just after wotlk release (china did not get wotlk for 10 more months). I think it is fair to say late bc/3.0.x was the 'golden era.'
by 3.4 etc. worldwide subs hit 12m again but that was because china hit new sub highs then and for quarters prior since they changed to netease from the9.

Fair enough. I am just going by official sub-numbers. If blizz states anything than the truth, that I can't do anything about.

He wrote vanilla in an earlier post though, even WoD peaked higher.

But yeah, TBC was awesome!

[Deficineiron]

Fair enough. I am just going by official sub-numbers. If blizz states anything than the truth, that I can't do anything about.

He wrote vanilla in an earlier post though, even WoD peaked higher.

But yeah, TBC was awesome!

when a/b used to give specific wow info regularly in filings/conference calls, i used to dig into them. all kinds of gems for those interested - based on public statements by koticks team and the vivendi ceo (a/b chairman) it was easy to prove (i mean prove) that if everyone told the truth, the western sub peak was just after wotlk released.

I am biased on the following but take it as a possibility to consider - 3.0.2 released with much, much easier content at all levels (leveling, instances, heroic instances, and raids, except sarth+3). My theory (based on some other things kotick was saying at the time) has always been that blizz was told a game like wow (which was nearly half ab combined revenue after the merger) needed to expand its market and be more accessible. they then found it necessary to spell it out that 'every player should be able to see and complete all the content,' thus the about-face on tuning from 2.4's SWP and MGT. 3.0 was the first major content release that the new ownership structure had time to impact.

there have been the odd comments from former blues from time to time that reinforce this perception - notably chilton stated that naxx2 was not tuned as hard as 'we' (his word) would have liked.

[Echocho]

You might be surprised, but high % participation and completion means players are having FUN.

Far from it. Do you think people chain ran hundreds upon hundreds of Maw of Souls at the beginning of Legion because it was fun?
Offer people good enough rewards or something that is required for raiding and people will dig through poo IRL for it.

[Deficineiron]

Far from it. Do you think people chain ran hundreds upon hundreds of Maw of Souls at the beginning of Legion because it was fun?
Offer people good enough rewards or something that is required for raiding and people will dig through poo IRL for it.

You are confusing the terminology. I think you are referring to something called 'fun,' a subjective per-player evaluation of a rather complex set of criteria and circumstances. That is all and good but it is FUN that makes the big blue see green$$.

FUN is a postulated internal system of metrics to determine what players do in-game. After properly incentivizing new content with appropriate rewards, participation./completion metrics are then studied. High participation (with related high completion) is a sign that it is FUN.

It is important to never confuse fun with FUN.

My guess is that FUN is one of the system-type gifts that blizzard was given to celebrate the merger. I bet that a lot of the blues would rather have eaten Gift of Arthas, but they never had a choice.

[stigz]

Instead of focusing on evolving the MMO genre by trying to improve WoW and maybe make a sequel, they're hiring grade A talent to work on code from over a decade ago for a game that was in a piss poor state compared to the systems it offers today just so it can serve as a fan service to a couple thousand people who can't admit that WoW hasn't changed at all in terms of gameplay since pre-BC, it's simply received tons more options to do the same things by reducing the pointless downtime and grind required for every single task, turning the game into a literal second job. Not to mention the improved graphics, phasing and other story telling elements. However, the core gameplay is 100% the same.

This is like bringing back Warcraft 1 multiplayer because a couple of retards think that selecting only 6 units at a time and very limited strategies are what the RTS genre is all about.

What a fucking waste. Just leave it open source for those aptly named "nostalrius" fags and put this quality and ambitious talent to pushing the MMO genre FORWARD not fucking backwards.

I think it's people like you existing is why the world is the way it is today

[Flarelaine]

Do you honestly believe the majority playing on private vanilla realms do it only because its free?

I've talked to some people playing on pirate servers. 100% of my sample played there because it was free.

[Hctaz]

Do you honestly believe the majority playing on private vanilla realms do it only because its free? I played on Nostalrius only because I have a burning passion for vanilla, a passion that blizzard refused to recongnize (until now).

1 months wow-sub is basically the cost of a lunch in most of the western developed world and I will GLADLY pay it.

I'm sure people inevitably do. There's a particular YouTuber I enjoy watching who says all the time, "People played on illegal Vanilla servers when it was still in Vanilla." I'm 100% certain that the majority of the players who play on these legacy servers would gladly pay for the game (I myself played on Nost while still having an active sub to retail WoW). There will inevitably be some who still try to remain on illegal servers due to payment issues. I don't think it will be many. Less than 1% probably.

[Novakhoro]

I didn't play Vanilla private servers because I didn't want to get banned. I know the chance was close to none but I didn't want to risk it.

There is literally no risk. I did it for about 1.5 years, and there's no way that they could ever discover it on your PC unless they were scanning files outside of their own which then you'd have a maaasssiive issue

[Storfan]

I've talked to some people playing on pirate servers. 100% of my sample played there because it was free.

Then I think you where talking to people on cata, mop or WoD private servers. The people on Nost and other vanilla servers play there because there is no official legal alternative.

There is literally no risk. I did it for about 1.5 years, and there's no way that they could ever discover it on your PC unless they were scanning files outside of their own which then you'd have a maaasssiive issue

Also, blizzard dont give a shit about sole players playing out-dated expansions on private servers, they only go after the hosts. There's nothing to be gained by going after players alone other than bad PR.

[Lolsteak]

Waste of talent? They're specifically hiring people who are enthusiastic about the project, It's their choice who they want to work for, Not yours.

[Hunterwep]

I'll preface this by stating I don't care whether or not Blizzard makes Classic servers. If they do, awesome. Not my cup of tea (since I've already been there and done that), but it doesn't affect me in the slightest. They're using a completely different team, so nothing's going to be taken away from BfA or anything beyond that, should Classic show any sort of success.

But i've seen several Pro-Classic people bitch about the 'grind'. Artifact Power, Garrisons, etc. Do these people not realize how much of a grind Classic was? In every sense of the word? Everything beyond getting to level 60 was a grind, almost exponentially so.

Tradeskills needed to be grinded (Thorium, Black Lotus, High End enchanting materials).

PvP Ranks were likely one of the most insane grinds at that point.

Resist Gear for Raiding (Onyxia Scales, too).

Reputations (Hydraxian Waterlord Rep just to access Ragnaros).

I don't understand the mental gymnastics required to say that current WoW's Grind is any better than what was required to do in Classic and would like some sort of logical explanation.

Because during vanilla you did not know the grind would be made obsolete the next major patch three month later. Or about an increased level cap destroying all your progress.

I'll give you an example, I have had friends of mine spamming mythic dungeons for days on end to farm Artifact Power.
I quit for a few month, come back, loot one token and guess what, I catched up with them.
THAT is why endless grind now is a waste of your time.

[Flarelaine]

Then I think you where talking to people on cata, mop or WoD private servers. The people on Nost and other vanilla servers play there because there is no official legal alternative.

I never cared enough to learn those details.

[Storfan]

I never cared enough to learn those details.

Alright. Which ever the case, there seem to be a vast difference in player mentality between expansions when you look at the players of private servers. From a personal perspective, back in vanilla I was a kid and I paid for my sub out of my own pocket and now I have a steady job and income and I suspect the case will be the same for most other players on private vanilla realms. The sub fee is simply a non-issue.

[kamuimac]

I think it's people like you existing is why the world is the way it is today

you mean average modern gamers ?

you know the one that is willing to blow monthy 100-200 $ for few cosmetic skins and bring company 4 times more money they newly released game ?

do you know even the world you live in ?

[Deleted]

Because during vanilla you did not know the grind would be made obsolete the next major patch three month later.

This is a very important and fundamental change in the game design. In vanilla you advanced your character while the world stayed still, today the world advances at a set pace while you stay still.

In vanilla it felt like every step you took advanced you in a real way and made a difference. You knew that the step had to be made in order to get to the next step. Today you know that when the next patch hits you will be move ahead into it. You will play in the latest patch content and wear the latest patch gear, regardless of what you did in the previous patches.

This is one of the main reasons why I have no interest in the current game. It just feel completely pointless to do anything because nothing you do has any impact on your long term progress.

[Deleted]

Instead of focusing on evolving the MMO genre by trying to improve WoW and maybe make a sequel, they're hiring grade A talent to work on code from over a decade ago for a game that was in a piss poor state compared to the systems it offers today just so it can serve as a fan service to a couple thousand people who can't admit that WoW hasn't changed at all in terms of gameplay since pre-BC, it's simply received tons more options to do the same things by reducing the pointless downtime and grind required for every single task, turning the game into a literal second job. Not to mention the improved graphics, phasing and other story telling elements. However, the core gameplay is 100% the same.

This is like bringing back Warcraft 1 multiplayer because a couple of retards think that selecting only 6 units at a time and very limited strategies are what the RTS genre is all about.

What a fucking waste. Just leave it open source for those aptly named "nostalrius" fags and put this quality and ambitious talent to pushing the MMO genre FORWARD not fucking backwards.

Don't worry I'm pritty sure with all this talk of hiring the nost guys there all ready found no grade a game dev wants to work on a project with so little design freedom and such a toxic opinionated community attached to it.