Blizzard-monitored survey, PLEASE VOTE

[Hctaz]

Realizing No-change people are mostly just afraid of taking the same route as retail, and not an actual hate of change, is indeed the best way to solve this kind of schism in communities, like Runescape did.

It requires one big thing however : to trust that Blizzard knows that the Classic playerbase is different than retail and would be able to design content for it.
If Runescape devs did it, I think Blizzard can. But that's plain faith based on what the professionalism I expect from Blizz game designers. I cannot give any proof, but nobody can anyway.

Wow this was actually not the direction I thought replies to my post would go at all. I wrote up this whole thing and was actually sitting on it for about 5 minutes wondering if I should just delete it. Interesting.

Yeah, I mean... I played on Runescape before starting WoW (cuz the game was out before) so I went on that whole journey. It was exactly like retail. Everything was AWESOME. A lot of people really liked Runescape 2 and all of the new stuff that came with it (this is the version that 07 is. There was a previous version beforehand). It was pretty good... I played it for 6 years (2001-2007), and then summoning came out. I don't know what it was about summoning, but we really disliked it. And that's when they ended up taking the game in an entirely new direction. The combat in that game was always very "boring", but it was something people liked about it. Runescape 3 started adding actual like.. abilities and stuff. There was outcry and we got a version from 07 just before summoning was added. It was good for a time and then development started after a while on new things. I think a lot of people back then were afraid as well, but they implemented polls and new changes came.

OSRS has actually evolved to include some of the things only added in the later versions of Runescape but modified to fit the times. "New" models were made to fit the engine and graphics of that time period for bosses that were released in RS3, and they modified the way the bosses played so that they would be doable.

- - - Updated - - -

But you might just ask Blizzard to do this with the retail version without ruining what classic is or was all about.
The people that thought for classic servers are getting destroyed by all these "I want to change everything"-posts that are filling up the forums.

You know, alot of the people who thought that classic was a bad idea said that this would happen. Newer players will not be ok with vanilla and they will try to force Blizzard to creat some frankensteins monster of a server that no one will like in the end.

If they are going to do classic, it should be vanilla as it was in some of the later patches. Fix bugs that might break the game with crashes and such but leave the feeling of the game the way it was. Play your ret paladin outside of raids and accept the fact that paladins heal/buff in raids.

You can leave the feeling of the game intact without leaving the game identical. Seriously, look at OSRS. It did this. WoW can do this too.

[Koward]

As a warrior back in vanilla (and all my wow life), I know the pain of respecing a LOT for raiding, pvp, pve etc etc etc. So imo, not that we should have a dual spec, but i'm trully in favor to limite the money of respecing LOW like 5g max, don't forget that back in the day, money was a hard to get. So that would really help.

Very interesting survey to be honest and really liked to see a lot of "answers" there. Really interesting.

Nobody denies dual spec helps the player. Even the most hardcore purist.
The question is whether this help should be provided to the player, and what is the bad tradeoff of such change.

Maybe instead of hiring two players of same class but different specs, guilds will need only one that can do both roles.
Perhaps the practice of clicking need in dungeons for items that are not for your spec will become more common, leading to more conflict.
Or the gold saved will make other things slightly easier at the same time.
It's all speculation, but there's always a good and a bad side.

[kibil]

I can see all the benefits to dual spec, but I think it is one of the Vanilla designs that actually served a valuable purpose, rather than being an old gimmick that should be kept around for the sake of being an old gimmick.

The heftier cost of respec meant people preferred to stick to their spec, which I think strengthened individual player identity. When you have that cost in place, a player is more like a prot paladin, or a ret paladin (for example) rather than just being a paladin who can do either whenever. Need a tank for something, you look for a player who is a tank, need a healer? You look for a healer. Rather than just hitting a button and filling those roles yourself.

Maybe you see someone having a hard time doing some farming or whatever at max level as a healer spec. You help them out and then add them to friends, and the next day when you're looking for a healer--you ask them if they'd be up for a dungeon instead of just changing your spec and looking for random DPS players.

I think it does some nice things. A very slight reduction in max (or a decaying cost--so that if you don't respec for weeks/months it becomes cheaper over time), would be a better solution than implementing dual spec.

Looking at it from that perspective, I agree with you, what I mean is back there I was a TANK that ran all awesome stuff we had except Naxx, even AQ40. And I remembered that I was really proud of being a TANK, and always tried harder to be better and even better in my role. And now all that ROLE things is completely banalised cause everyone can be everything and anything.

[Deleted]

Two-man farming Strat living in 30 mn ? Feels legit.

Did i say we did it in 30 mins? No, i said 50g/30min was possible. With 2 safe orbs @~90-125 gold and shards you could take a while in strat for 100g/h

[Gungnir]

You can leave the feeling of the game intact without leaving the game identical. Seriously, look at OSRS. It did this. WoW can do this too.

I think you severely underestimate just how many people WoW has influenced. They do not want changes, they want the game they associate all the happy and sad memories to. There's also not much you can do before you start to impact how the game feels. Vanilla WoW was very harsh and unkind against players, that you had to work for every bit of scrap you could get.
That was the reason it was so special, why it felt so rewarding when you got that first epic and such. That's why it was so incredibly immersive, that you could play deep into the night without realizing that 8 - 9 hours had passed.

[Hctaz]

I think you severely underestimate just how many people WoW has influenced. They do not want changes, they want the game they associate all the happy and sad memories to. There's also not much you can do before you start to impact how the game feels. Vanilla WoW was very harsh and unkind against players, that you had to work for every bit of scrap you could get.
That was the reason it was so special, why it felt so rewarding when you got that first epic and such. That's why it was so incredibly immersive, that you could play deep into the night without realizing that 8 - 9 hours had passed.

So... keep that feeling no matter what happens then? It isn't hard. The difference between then and now is that they were actively trying to make the game easier back then. They won't be thinking "Gee, how do we make these dungeons easier for people to find groups for," because they know we don't want that shit. Basically, you just make a Classic WoW Bible up front. Everything you think about adding MUST adhere to all of the rules of the Classic WoW Bible.

[Gungnir]

So... keep that feeling no matter what happens then? It isn't hard. The difference between then and now is that they were actively trying to make the game easier back then. They won't be thinking "Gee, how do we make these dungeons easier for people to find groups for," because they know we don't want that shit. Basically, you just make a Classic WoW Bible up front. Everything you think about adding MUST adhere to all of the rules of the Classic WoW Bible.

Except then you have the slippery-slope fallacy.
"But they added AoE looting, why can't they add <insert X QoL change here>" and then there'll be a community outcry and campaigning for it, then it happens, and all of the sudden we're sitting there about a year down the road with just a low level cap version of current WoW.
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the masses and how easily they'll lobby behind things because the romanticize the change without realizing the impact of it.

[Vladar]

So... keep that feeling no matter what happens then? It isn't hard. The difference between then and now is that they were actively trying to make the game easier back then. They won't be thinking "Gee, how do we make these dungeons easier for people to find groups for," because they know we don't want that shit. Basically, you just make a Classic WoW Bible up front. Everything you think about adding MUST adhere to all of the rules of the Classic WoW Bible.

They should have basic rules the server will never break like not level cap increase past 60, no expansion, no LFD LFR, no flying, no server transfers name changes, etc, no heirlooms, no free epics, high level raids are 40 man, etc.

[Orbusg]

Except then you have the slippery-slope fallacy.

Yes, slippery slope is a fallacy.
Perhaps it shouldn't be used as an argument.

[Aggrophobic]

Wow this was actually not the direction I thought replies to my post would go at all. I wrote up this whole thing and was actually sitting on it for about 5 minutes wondering if I should just delete it. Interesting.

Yeah, I mean... I played on Runescape before starting WoW (cuz the game was out before) so I went on that whole journey. It was exactly like retail. Everything was AWESOME. A lot of people really liked Runescape 2 and all of the new stuff that came with it (this is the version that 07 is. There was a previous version beforehand). It was pretty good... I played it for 6 years (2001-2007), and then summoning came out. I don't know what it was about summoning, but we really disliked it. And that's when they ended up taking the game in an entirely new direction. The combat in that game was always very "boring", but it was something people liked about it. Runescape 3 started adding actual like.. abilities and stuff. There was outcry and we got a version from 07 just before summoning was added. It was good for a time and then development started after a while on new things. I think a lot of people back then were afraid as well, but they implemented polls and new changes came.

OSRS has actually evolved to include some of the things only added in the later versions of Runescape but modified to fit the times. "New" models were made to fit the engine and graphics of that time period for bosses that were released in RS3, and they modified the way the bosses played so that they would be doable.

- - - Updated - - -



You can leave the feeling of the game intact without leaving the game identical. Seriously, look at OSRS. It did this. WoW can do this too.

No, it can not. It will not be the same. Not in the slightest.
RuneScape is not the same game and comparing them is silly.

[Gungnir]

Yes, slippery slope is a fallacy.
Perhaps it shouldn't be used as an argument.

The day it stops being a thing is the day it'll stop getting used as an argument.
Because it very much is a thing due to basic human psychology when you have a butthurt minority wanting to push their agenda.

[Hctaz]

Except then you have the slippery-slope fallacy.
"But they added AoE looting, why can't they add <insert X QoL change here>" and then there'll be a community outcry and campaigning for it, then it happens, and all of the sudden we're sitting there about a year down the road with just a low level cap version of current WoW.
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the masses and how easily they'll lobby behind things because the romanticize the change without realizing the impact of it.

I don't want AoE looting lol

[Gungnir]

I don't want AoE looting lol

I'm not saying you do, but there are a lot of people who never even played Vanilla that wants these things once they found out that it wasn't in Vanilla.
Ignorant and loud minorities tend to be noticed the most aswell, which means that this slippery slope issue is very much a reality if Blizzard decides to take community input on how to develop a game that launched a decade ago which people already have a clear view of what they want out of it.

It's just such a bad idea all around to do anything but to keep it completely Vanilla.

[Doranian123]

Wait, who the hell actually wants cross realm battlegrounds? Is the community seriously asking for this? Do you guys know what the word community means?

[Hctaz]

I'm not saying you do, but there are a lot of people who never even played Vanilla that wants these things once they found out that it wasn't in Vanilla.
Ignorant and loud minorities tend to be noticed the most aswell, which means that this slippery slope issue is very much a reality if Blizzard decides to take community input on how to develop a game that launched a decade ago which people already have a clear view of what they want out of it.

It's just such a bad idea all around to do anything but to keep it completely Vanilla.

Not really. They can keep it up to polls that only active members past a certain level can vote on. Those loud-mouthed players who want things that nobody else wants will leave. But even if they didn't, it wouldn't matter. Just look at the survey results. Flying, LFR, LFD... all 90%+ NO. It's very obvious that the playerbase doesn't want Classic to go down in a bad way.

[Powerogue]

This is hilarious to read through. So they want patch 1.4 and 1.2 on release, but not 1.3? That'll be fun to code!

The overwhelming support for "classic expansions" is my favorite. First BC, then Wrath, then before you know it they're playing the exact same game as everyone else but with the sweet, sweet taste of superiority, for they are playing the REAL game, unlike those new-age casual plebians.

edit: Wait, they want expansions, but using only the existing two continents, and of course we can't have Cataclysm style events because that'd mess with their vanilla experience. How on earth...?

edit2: "But yes, we would totally like to get things like Grim Batol, Hyjal, and Uldum in a sort of "expansion" format." WHAT?!

edit3: But no progression, we can't have that, all new content must not be better than Naxx gear! o_O

Wait, who the hell actually wants cross realm battlegrounds? Is the community seriously asking for this? Do you guys know what the word community means?

People who remember how much it sucked to be on a realm with almost no horde or almost no alliance?

[ManiaCCC]

This is hilarious to read through. So they want patch 1.4 and 1.2 on release, but not 1.3? That'll be fun to code!

The overwhelming support for "classic expansions" is my favorite. First BC, then Wrath, then before you know it they're playing the exact same game as everyone else but with the sweet, sweet taste of superiority, for they are playing the REAL game, unlike those new-age casual plebians.

edit: Wait, they want expansions, but using only the existing two continents, and of course we can't have Cataclysm style events because that'd mess with their vanilla experience. How on earth...?

edit2: "But yes, we would totally like to get things like Grim Batol, Hyjal, and Uldum in a sort of "expansion" format." WHAT?!

edit3: But no progression, we can't have that, all new content must not be better than Naxx gear! o_O

If you really want nitpick answers and trying to play smart around it, go ahead, but I think you misunderstood quite a lot. These questions are limited and it's hard to represent vision of WoW classic of many, if you can't use actual words, just some checkboxes.

So let me translate you, what this actually says, if you can't do it for yourself:

People want the most stable, bug free and balanced version of WoW up to patch 2.0. But actually they want progress through content, released in batches, not unlocked everything at once.

PvP is different beast, people enjoyed BGs, there is no point in staggered release. Also, while server community and stuff is nice, wait times in BGs were big issue without cross realm BGs.

People don't mind some QoL changes, as long as it wont affect vanilla experience in big way.

People would like to see WoW: Classic progress in some way after last raid release but do it in different this time. For example using unfinished zones.

People would like to see some sort of expansions release for WoW: Classic, but not as vertical progression, rather horizontal - not making world smaller thanks to new zones and increasing level cap

So, here it is. I hope now you understand what most people are telling us. Just don't take these limited question literally, look at bigger picture, and you will understand, what people want.

[Costa]

Factoring in both their current strategies with content in retail, and the fact that 1.12 is arguably the most fixed version--many bugs and core issues resolved, various non-content additions included (weather, STV and Darkmoon events, etc). I would imagine the initial plan is to release a build of 1.12 where instances have a staggered release, much like raids do on retail today. So they'll activate them slowly over time but leave the rest of the game in its fully patched form.

Yeah think what you say here where they release 1.12 as class balance and stability but add the raids and such later on which why shouldn't they. As long as 1.12 class changes are in effect people won't get very annoyed when they take 1-2 months casually leveling to 60 with there friends or enjoying content to find out, oh you play pala tank? sorry you can't come raid with us etc etc xd

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Getting a good sample size from this at least.

[Gref]

Have they released the new survey?