Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by akmenos54 View Post
    Why not use imps as a ressource ? Something like you need to sacrifice X imps in order to summon a much bigger demon .
    You could do that but you'd have to turn them into something that is more passively or extremely rapidly generated otherwise you run into the same if not worse ramp issues. It could work if they were effectively energy or DK runes in how quickly they popped up and were spent. This also has the problem that the imps themselves do damage, so unless the damage they do is so incredibly trivial then you have this awkward trying to min-max when you sacrifice them that just isn't enjoyable game play.

    but when you get down to it, do we really want to be highly focused around imps again?

    Personally I think mop / wod demonology got imps right, where they were this sort of extra thing that popped up around you. They were something the lock was practically ignoring as some kind of small trivial army that took up none of the locks time or effort which seems very appropriate for what they are, while still being visually appealing as you were surrounded by the things. Imps should never be a main source of strength for locks, that's just not what they were ever meant to be.

    Destro has that same issue, why is the master of destruction running around with the weakest demon having it do a significant portion of our damage? It doesn't help the fantasy or the gameplay.
    Last edited by Baconeggcheese; 2017-11-18 at 01:40 PM.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  2. #42
    ...and afflocks are hyopthetically stuck with the dog, when IMHO the succubus fits the fantasy better. She does after all enjoy inlficting pain (and suffering it lol), and this is the essence of affliction. Making your enemies die slowly and horribly whilst laughing at them

  3. #43
    Why not give Demonology 2 permanent warlock pets?

    Since Beast Mastery hunters are lined up to lose 2 permanent pets in BfA (Hati gone with the Artifact Weapon) why not look at Demonology to fill that role? Really does add to the "master of demons" fantasy.

    Hell, you should be able to interchange demons. Voidwalker with an imp, felhunter with succubus, felhunter with imp... then you add in the option of permanent infernal and doomguard?

    Unholy DK's have a shitty talent in their first tier that gives them a ranged pet. It's just sitting there! Not being used!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    This game clearly has some kind of supernatural hold on people. Not only do people still play it, but some people who don't play it still want to come on to the forums and spend their time talking about it!

    WHAT A CRAZY WORLD THIS IS.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    ...and afflocks are hyopthetically stuck with the dog, when IMHO the succubus fits the fantasy better. She does after all enjoy inlficting pain (and suffering it lol), and this is the essence of affliction. Making your enemies die slowly and horribly whilst laughing at them
    i would even rather use the dog tbh at this point, doomguard looks stupid (it was cooler as a cd tbh).

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    And has others have said, I definitely would like to see some of the mechanics from the Gul'dan fight become incorporated into Warlock spells, the same way DKs got things like Remorseless Winter, Defile, etc
    So... Eyes?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    ...and afflocks are hyopthetically stuck with the dog, when IMHO the succubus fits the fantasy better. She does after all enjoy inlficting pain (and suffering it lol), and this is the essence of affliction. Making your enemies die slowly and horribly whilst laughing at them
    If I had an actual reason to use the succubus I could die happy. Really, the pets for all specs need some purpose again.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Mammon View Post
    It's stubborn because I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine.
    "DHs had it first" doesn't mean Warlocks can't have it. The lore explanation even says its a reverse engeneered version of Illidan's spell:

    Also, the player character gained Meta in WotLK.


    OT:
    I liked the MoP theme, where the summons empowered me. Also the resource management.
    At very least hope they bring back good tools being baseline. This bare-bones spec with it's tools coming from talents they did in Legion is really annoying.
    Eh, speak for youself. I enjoy Demo and do well with it. I dislike the style of powertrip due to the constant lifetaps needed but that can be looked over.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeranath View Post
    So... Eyes?

    - - - Updated - - -


    If I had an actual reason to use the succubus I could die happy. Really, the pets for all specs need some purpose again.
    Liek I said, I feel the succubus fits way better with aff's fantasy than the dog. Lash of Pain, her enjoyment of inflicting (and receiving lol) pain fit with aff. Having a dog biting things doesn't. Ideally, the aff pet shoudl apply a dot or debuff too.

    I have a sneaking suspicion, you know, that they woudl rather the succubus just went away...for political correctness. She is essentially a dominatrix type figure, whip, thigh length boots and all and has Seduce as an ability.

    And the reason there's no male version, is because that would be an innubus, who are essentially demonic rapists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Eh, speak for youself. I enjoy Demo and do well with it. I dislike the style of powertrip due to the constant lifetaps needed but that can be looked over.
    You can always find some people who enjoy a thing, that doesn'tmean that Blizz can overlook the negative feedback on the design of which there was farmore than positive, or the fact that demo is very underplayed and it's design has some very significant weaknesses when sene in the light of what Warcraft of 2017 requires.

    Demo of today would have been far stronger in older expacs, where on-demand burst was less dominant and ramp less punishing. The gam eof today is faster paced because that is what gamers expect, and it is also what Warcraft's rivals tend to be like. Shorter attention spans, more demand for immediate reward, more demand for frequent stimulation.

    The only reason demo's hypothetical single target is so strong, is a nod from the devs that it has big weaknesses elsewhere. Sadly no boss fight is a Patchwerk.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    You could do that but you'd have to turn them into something that is more passively or extremely rapidly generated otherwise you run into the same if not worse ramp issues. It could work if they were effectively energy or DK runes in how quickly they popped up and were spent. This also has the problem that the imps themselves do damage, so unless the damage they do is so incredibly trivial then you have this awkward trying to min-max when you sacrifice them that just isn't enjoyable game play.

    but when you get down to it, do we really want to be highly focused around imps again?

    Personally I think mop / wod demonology got imps right, where they were this sort of extra thing that popped up around you. They were something the lock was practically ignoring as some kind of small trivial army that took up none of the locks time or effort which seems very appropriate for what they are, while still being visually appealing as you were surrounded by the things. Imps should never be a main source of strength for locks, that's just not what they were ever meant to be.

    Destro has that same issue, why is the master of destruction running around with the weakest demon having it do a significant portion of our damage? It doesn't help the fantasy or the gameplay.
    Yes. Imps do their thing to please us, their master and they come as a byproduct of our spells. Like an automatic consumption of the little soulshard we steal from our victims. They give back some demonic energy,fury or whatever you wanna call it that fuels our big spells. Demonology should use the felguard obviously and maybe supremacy should give us a buff instead of changing our demon (we are supreme afterall ). I'd like Soulfire back as that shows off the green fire. Shadowbolt is a staple as well and demonbolt, lots of bolts but maybe soulfire/demonbolt should be the spender, efficient vs inefficient burst, just like a healer with mana. I want meta back and all but I doubt that's going to happen.

    I don't mind if demo turns into the 20button hard spec, but a master of demons or rather demonic magic imo. should be more then just summons.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    That "The master of demon fantasy is great, but the execution wasn't right" quote does not fill me with confidence. All Blizzard will probably do is increase the duration of Demonic Empowerment. I'm also not on board with their interpretation of "class fantasy" here.

    Demonology fantasy: Master Summoner of ferocious demons!
    Reality: some imps..
    These are second stringers brought over from Diablo. Those expecting some kind of transformation of Demonology into something playable are living in a pipe dream.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    For demonology, the idea os fine. But you don;t feellike a master summoner when the best you can do is a felguard and a handful of the lowliest demon trash there is, namely imps and dogs.
    Regarding this specifically, I agree. Our artifact is even the skull of one of the greatest Eredar summoners, and he doesn't help us actually summon anything...

    And honestly, demonology is the study of demonic magic (summoning/ binding/ empowerment (of yourself/ demons)). It just seems odd that someone who in the pursuit of greater power, who delves into fel magic,would spend it on almost exclusively buffing minons and not on themselves. We're supposed to be reckless and power hungry.
    Last edited by Maleific; 2017-11-20 at 07:20 AM.

  11. #51
    I'd like it to be more like a fusion of legion and wod demo with some mechanics like gul'dan in mannoroth and nighthold fights:
    - fell instead of mana
    - minor demons loose 5% of their hp per second ('till their death, meaning that the main reason for this spec is not just to summon pets, but to keep them alive to) and when they deal damage they generate fell (the harder they hit more fell they generate) and attack your main pet target
    - shadowbolt: costs % of fell, 1.5 seconds to cast, when deals damage summons an imp (maybe is better a dog) (up to 10) and has % to generate a soul shard, when it crits has 100% chances to generate a soul shard
    - doom: costs % of fell, it's instant and deals damage for 25 seconds and when it deals damage summons a dog (maybe is better a succubus if shadowbolt summons the dog) (up to 5), when it crits generates a shard
    - hand of gul'dan: cost 1 shard, has 2 stacks and a 20 sec cd, deals aoe damage and puts doom on all enemies it hits and summons an inquisitor (just one, meaning there's noway to have 2 the same moment) for 15 sec that hits your target with soul drain increasing the fell damage it takes of % and healing you and your pets (like affliction soul drain)
    - fellsoul: (cd like dark soul was) instant, cost 1 shard and has 2 min cd, for 25 seconds your minor demons don't loose hp and for each of your demons you summon 1 imp for 25 seconds (they count as different from your normal imps, so are not limited by their cap)
    - Summon Dreadlord: istant, cost 25% hp and 10% fell per second; summons a Dreadlord that feeds on your fell energy (up to 2, they don't loose life like other demons) and hits your target with demonbolts, if your fell energy gets under 35% they dismiss!
    - felleruption: on activation (like burning rush), cost 10% hp to activate and 5% for second, your minor pets become their upgraded version and increases your and your pets damage of 25% and your pets hp and haste of 30% (when active all skills but fellsoul and hand of gul'dan cost twice their cost and shadowbolt hits all the enemies in 10 yards from target but it does 50% less damage than normal per hit)
    - fellbeam (like gul'dan nighthold): 1 shard, channeled for 4 seconds drains 10% of your pets total hp to channel a fellbeam that hits your target and all enemies between you and the target (if your target has less than 30% hp its damage is 50% stronger)

    I think fell is the best resource for us 'cause fell is what you need to deal with demons, we're not corrupted by it but we can control it without draining it, we can't use it as warlocks from the burning legion because unlike them we didn't accepted it but just learnt to use it, that's why they can summon demons for endless times (as long as they're alive) but we can only keep them for a bit (since our summon ritual isn't perfect, they are damaged every second they stay at our side)!
    Lets be realistic a pitlord is to much for us to handle but a dreadlord isn't, especially if we give them something in return, and if we can use enough energy we can even keep 2!
    Last edited by Demoros; 2017-11-20 at 08:27 AM.

  12. #52
    Ironically, demonology was clostest to the stated intent of "master summoner of demons" in the pre-launch patch, when the Draenor tier armour started summoning absolute hordes of demons because the bonus which randomly summoned a temporary demon went absolutely crazy - iirc it had a relatively high proc rate of imp firebolts, and when you had five or ten imps firing them with the haste buff from demonic empowerment, you had one hell of a lot of demons there. Including eredar, or even Prince level demons.

    Oh it was such fun for a few days. Then they nerfed it to the ground of course.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    I'd like to see something like the Mastermind class from City of Villains.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  14. #54
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    Just give me my Metamorphosis back please.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuvial View Post
    a master of demons or rather demonic magic imo. should be more then just summons.
    This! It feels so odd we spend so much time on our pets as a power-hungry ex-mage, shaman, priest etc.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebiroth99 View Post
    Ironically, demonology was clostest to the stated intent of "master summoner of demons" in the pre-launch patch, when the Draenor tier armour started summoning absolute hordes of demons because the bonus which randomly summoned a temporary demon went absolutely crazy - iirc it had a relatively high proc rate of imp firebolts, and when you had five or ten imps firing them with the haste buff from demonic empowerment, you had one hell of a lot of demons there. Including eredar, or even Prince level demons.

    Oh it was such fun for a few days. Then they nerfed it to the ground of course.
    IIRC, it only summoned two types of demons: a dreadstalker and a satyr, nothing even close to an eredar. Plus, pressing just three buttons (literally) wasn't really something fun.

    PS: Still digging the whole concept shown at the start of warlock's chain in Dalaran as a DPS spell/Cooldown (Cataclysm-like). Open a portal, have something huge peek out, deliever massive damage, then shut the portal. Kinda like one of the Legion spells in Disciples II causes a rift to pop up over an army and a giant demonic-looking hand smash itself onto it.

  17. #57
    @Judex it summoned an eredar, was just really rare. Dunno if maybe they cut it for live though I honestly forget.
    @Nebiroth99 The gameplay was absolute shit though, so that's not saying much.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  18. #58
    Problem is outside the new demons they've implemented, I feel like demons are kind of caricature enemies by now. They don't feel scary or menacing in the way they've set up shadow priest's creepy void abilities or death knight scourge type mobs to be.

    I'm hoping they make more use of the more twisted demons like the eredar demonhunter-like mobs or the immortals or colossus and pitlords and dreadlords. These are the more scary looking mobs and menacing demons instead of a couple of dogs and imps.

    Ultimately because of how non-threatening most demons come off, it's hard to give demo the visual impact of actual spell animatio like destro or shadow priest can convey.

    Some of this is simply the fault of the fact that they've de-escalated the Legion from being the ultimate threat at the start of this game and being turned to inferior threats compared to the void. Demons feel like ants you're simply stepping on, mere inconveniences to locking up a titan up.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2017-11-23 at 07:11 PM.

  19. #59
    The real problem is that the true 'master of demons' is the dude reclining over there on his sunbed with a nice cold drink.

    His Felguard is smashing your face in.

    His Jailor has rooted you.

    His Felstalker is eating any spell you try to cast while also nomming your arse.

    And there are a plethora of annoying little bastards fire bolting you everywhere you try to go.

    Naturally this type of class is not possible in an MMO like WoW so the Devs really had nowhere at all to go with Demo for the 'class fantasy' bullshit that has given us the worst class design overall to ever disgrace this game.
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

  20. #60
    @FertsBlert For me the issue has always been that the "master of X pet" archetype doesn't fit warlocks at all thematically. Warlocks are not hunters, where a beast master will go out and tame a powerful pet and play off of its strength, warlocks empower themselves and subjugate their demons. Demons are pawns for us, and by that very nature need to be weaker than us so we can enslave them. So having a spec revolving around summoning and relying on them is antithetical to what warlocks are.

    A proper demonology spec would be us using them as cannon fodder and making us stronger (things like implosion), not relying on them to do our killing for us since we're already more powerful than they are. They tried to go the route of the demons doing the heavy lifting and *us* empowering *them*, which is backwards for the "class fantasy".
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

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