My thoughts on the Rogue's current state (Fantasy vs Gameplay)

[Deleted]

No they should not.

It makes them only more similiar and does not add class fantasy at all.

Poisons don't fit the outlaw theme at all.

class fantasy ruined all the classes...

[Mafic]

She is using Perdition's blades which are daggers. Try this as an outlaw... :-)
http://www.wowhead.com/outfit=462/vanessa-vancleef

Combat daggers.

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No they should not.

It makes them only more similiar and does not add class fantasy at all.

Poisons don't fit the outlaw theme at all.

Poisons fits with all three Rogue specs. Just like Gouge and garrote.

[TemporalAnarchy]

Vanessa Vancleef uses mind numbing poisons.

All Rogue specs should have poisons.

Vanessa is an Assassination rogue. She uses poisons, casts Fan of Knives, and attacks with daggers. If it walks, talks, and acts like a duck... Chances are it's a duck. The rogue class hall would have had an ABUNDANCE of assassination rogues (as that's what most rogue NPCs would be classed as lore-wise because they use daggers and poisons). Somewhere they needed to flag more as Outlaw for the purposes of our mission board, and because she comes from a lineage of Outlaws (her father and most of the Defias Brotherhood are certainly Outlaws) Vanessa makes the most sense to give that label. It doesn't mean she's ACTUALLY an Outlaw rogue, because she doesn't act like one. And it makes sense; she wasn't trained by the Brotherhood so she didn't inherit their ways. She made her own way.

If you look at the other two Outlaw NPCs, you'll realize how sparse Outlaws are within the rogue lore. Fleet Admiral Tethys, who was created for our class hall, and Marin Noggenfogger, who has zero actual lore indicating he's even a rogue (just shady). You'll also find anomalies like this in other class halls with characters clearly NOT of the player class being assigned a spec so that they can function with the mission board (elementals for shaman, lightsworn and banshees for priests, etc).

Anyway, you still haven't explained how poisons even fit the flavor of Outlaw. What poisons are appropriate for pirates to put on their weapons? It makes much more sense for Outlaws to coat their weapons in oil to combat oxidation of the blades out on the open seas. I'd totally go for Outlaws coating their weapons in a flammable oil that their Pistol Shot, Blunderbuss, or Between the Eyes ignites. But not a poison.

edit:

Combat daggers.

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Poisons fits with all three Rogue specs. Just like Gouge and garrote.

Combat daggers hasn't been viable in more than a decade. Hasn't been possible for seven years. (Fangs of the Father are an exception because Sub/Sin can't use swords for their attacks; for mechanical reasons they HAD to be daggers.)

I also agree with you on Garrote. However, for absolutely zero reason should it be a bleed. Nothing about garroting someone indicates it should cause bleeding.

[Deleted]

Vanessa is an Assassination rogue. She uses poisons, casts Fan of Knives, and attacks with daggers. If it walks, talks, and acts like a duck... Chances are it's a duck. The rogue class hall would have had an ABUNDANCE of assassination rogues (as that's what most rogue NPCs would be classed as lore-wise because they use daggers and poisons). Somewhere they needed to flag more as Outlaw for the purposes of our mission board, and because she comes from a lineage of Outlaws (her father and most of the Defias Brotherhood are certainly Outlaws) Vanessa makes the most sense to give that label. It doesn't mean she's ACTUALLY an Outlaw rogue, because she doesn't act like one. And it makes sense; she wasn't trained by the Brotherhood so she didn't inherit their ways. She made her own way.

If you look at the other two Outlaw NPCs, you'll realize how sparse Outlaws are within the rogue lore. Fleet Admiral Tethys, who was created for our class hall, and Marin Noggenfogger, who has zero actual lore indicating he's even a rogue (just shady). You'll also find anomalies like this in other class halls with characters clearly NOT of the player class being assigned a spec so that they can function with the mission board (elementals for shaman, lightsworn and banshees for priests, etc).

Anyway, you still haven't explained how poisons even fit the flavor of Outlaw. What poisons are appropriate for pirates to put on their weapons? It makes much more sense for Outlaws to coat their weapons in oil to combat oxidation of the blades out on the open seas. I'd totally go for Outlaws coating their weapons in a flammable oil that their Pistol Shot, Blunderbuss, or Between the Eyes ignites. But not a poison.

edit:


Combat daggers hasn't been viable in more than a decade. Hasn't been possible for seven years. (Fangs of the Father are an exception because Sub/Sin can't use swords for their attacks; for mechanical reasons they HAD to be daggers.)

I also agree with you on Garrote. However, for absolutely zero reason should it be a bleed. Nothing about garroting someone indicates it should cause bleeding.

It's a barbed wire garrote, look at the spell icon

[OyesOyess]

Vanessa is an Assassination rogue. She uses poisons, casts Fan of Knives, and attacks with daggers. If it walks, talks, and acts like a duck... Chances are it's a duck. The rogue class hall would have had an ABUNDANCE of assassination rogues (as that's what most rogue NPCs would be classed as lore-wise because they use daggers and poisons). Somewhere they needed to flag more as Outlaw for the purposes of our mission board, and because she comes from a lineage of Outlaws (her father and most of the Defias Brotherhood are certainly Outlaws) Vanessa makes the most sense to give that label. It doesn't mean she's ACTUALLY an Outlaw rogue, because she doesn't act like one. And it makes sense; she wasn't trained by the Brotherhood so she didn't inherit their ways. She made her own way.

If you look at the other two Outlaw NPCs, you'll realize how sparse Outlaws are within the rogue lore. Fleet Admiral Tethys, who was created for our class hall, and Marin Noggenfogger, who has zero actual lore indicating he's even a rogue (just shady). You'll also find anomalies like this in other class halls with characters clearly NOT of the player class being assigned a spec so that they can function with the mission board (elementals for shaman, lightsworn and banshees for priests, etc).

Anyway, you still haven't explained how poisons even fit the flavor of Outlaw. What poisons are appropriate for pirates to put on their weapons? It makes much more sense for Outlaws to coat their weapons in oil to combat oxidation of the blades out on the open seas. I'd totally go for Outlaws coating their weapons in a flammable oil that their Pistol Shot, Blunderbuss, or Between the Eyes ignites. But not a poison.

edit:


Combat daggers hasn't been viable in more than a decade. Hasn't been possible for seven years. (Fangs of the Father are an exception because Sub/Sin can't use swords for their attacks; for mechanical reasons they HAD to be daggers.)

I also agree with you on Garrote. However, for absolutely zero reason should it be a bleed. Nothing about garroting someone indicates it should cause bleeding.

I feel like you definitely said it perfectly. Honestly to me I think all the specs do fairly well with their fantasy. And I don't think any of them need poisons except Sin. I think currently the only spec that should be slightly changed is sub. I actually really enjoyed WoD sub but I currently dislike the that they basically use shadow magic in a sense. Overall I think the specs capitalize on their fantasy this expansion more than ever before and I enjoy it.

[TemporalAnarchy]

It's a barbed wire garrote, look at the spell icon

So it is. You'd think at some point in 13 years of being a rogue I'd have looked at that. But nope, I hadn't.

Also that just brings up more questions. Like, where did we get barbed wire? Why is it not used for fences on Azeroth? And have I been using the same piece for 13 years? Did the SI:7 and the Hand independently invent barbed wire? Do non-spies even know it exists? DOES it exist?

I'm legitimately flying around to farms in-game right now to see if I've missed barbed wire fences. After having surveyed the Eastern Kingdoms I have to believe that barbed wire is a secret being closely guarded by the spy organizations and exists on Azeroth solely to be used as a garrote. >.>

[Florena]

Roll the bones is an ability that really harms my enjoyment of outlaw. 'Oh it's a pirate, it should gamble with it's maintenance buff!'....really? What? Makes no sense to me. I like the class fantasies of 'assassin, pirate, ninja' but yeah mechanically they could still use some tweaks.

The pistol and some of the talents like grappling hook feel great for pirate class fantasy. But rolling the bones makes me scratch my head. What pirate ever rolls dice in the middle of a fight?

[ymirsson]

And have I been using the same piece for 13 years?

That's where your poisons come from. Biological warfare.