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  1. #21
    all you people saying havoc is bad clearly havent played havoc at even a heroic level before. its in a really good spot for antorus simming top 5 dps

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    LOL have you even played a Demon Hunter this expansion? Havoc is one of the weakest melee classes in the game since the bloodlet nerf. They gutted Havoc almost a year ago now and we haven't even been top 10 since. The only part of our kit that's decent is our burst, which makes out numbers LOOK inflated and strong later in a tier, but we are by far one of the worst progression specs in the game. Saying we're the favorite child, after we've gone through numerous ptr patches of them telling us they're going to do something big for us and then they don't do anything, is pretty stupid of you.

    Same for Veng, they've been the worst raiding tank since they got nerfed in Emerald Nightmare because people were stacking mastery to cheese mechanics. They do great damage, subpar healing, and they have the worst survival/AM in the game out of all the tanks.

    - - - Updated - - -



    LOL you're joking right? Havoc also one of the worst M+ specs for Legion...they have 2 sources of AoE damage and both are on insanely long cooldowns....
    Are you forgetting NH? Because it seems like you are. DH has only been weak in the current tier, the others it was perfectly fine. Stop being a melodramatic child. And in M+, we're more than fine. Stuns, imprison, lots of burst damage if you have the shoulders or play demonic. Learn to play your class before you condemn it as terrible
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Azkial View Post
    Are you forgetting NH? Because it seems like you are. DH has only been weak in the current tier, the others it was perfectly fine. Stop being a melodramatic child. And in M+, we're more than fine. Stuns, imprison, lots of burst damage if you have the shoulders or play demonic. Learn to play your class before you condemn it as terrible
    Statistics don't lie buddy. Has nothing to do with "Learning how to play". There's only 1 Havoc in the top 150 keystones, there's only 4 in the top 500. That's a fact, that's not an opinion, that isn't me "not knowing how to play". Havoc brings nothing that other specs don't bring with higher DPS or better utility. The class is bottom tier overall, with the worst AoE in the game and subpar single target, again fact based off how we're middle of the pack on fights like Goroth and bottom on AoE fights like Mistress or bottom 3 on Desolate Host. Good attempt though, maybe you should learn to read into facts before you want to call someone bad.

  4. #24
    Since they announce that there will be no big class rework, I'm making my DH an alt. Bad performance (numbers) aside, the class is just incomplete and glide and fast movement speed isn't going to make it up. If they really stick with the class design, I'm rolling UH DK, maybe even for the next tier.

  5. #25
    Considering Havoc has been nerfed, if I remember correctly, every single patch so far in Legion? Good luck going in to BfA.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Statistics don't lie buddy. Has nothing to do with "Learning how to play". There's only 1 Havoc in the top 150 keystones, there's only 4 in the top 500. That's a fact, that's not an opinion, that isn't me "not knowing how to play". Havoc brings nothing that other specs don't bring with higher DPS or better utility. The class is bottom tier overall, with the worst AoE in the game and subpar single target, again fact based off how we're middle of the pack on fights like Goroth and bottom on AoE fights like Mistress or bottom 3 on Desolate Host. Good attempt though, maybe you should learn to read into facts before you want to call someone bad.
    Not going to speak as to whether you're right or wrong.... however, you do realize that your argument is one that a lot of classes have, "bottom tier, worst AoE, bad single target, no utility." Go look at the paladin, shaman, monk, etc forum boards. They are all having the same crappy (invalid) argument.

    I play a shaman. I read the boards here and on warcraft.com. On both sites, shamans complain about earthquake and how poor we are at AOE cause tanks move. About abysmal single target dps cause Lightning Bolt is no longer castable while moving.

    "Shamans have no utility," they have way more than a rogue or warrior, but both those classes are top tier.

    In both instances the argument is not true. Your statistic about the top 500 people is not a valid one. 500 of 7million players is .00007% of the WoW population. Even multiplied by the 36 specs, 0.0025% of the population, is not an interest rate to write blog about.

    If you're trying to play a "top tier class" and be part of the 0.0025%, you're always going to be disappointed. Been playing since vanilla and every class has had its moment in the spotlight (will never forget ret paladins at WotLK release). Every class is fine, nothing is completely broken. If you don't like it, reroll or quit entirely.
    Last edited by Angrie; 2017-11-21 at 06:21 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    Not going to speak as to whether you're right or wrong.... however, you do realize that your argument is one that a lot of classes have, "bottom tier, worst AoE, bad single target, no utility." Go look at the paladin, shaman, monk, etc forum boards. They are all having the same crappy (invalid) argument.

    I play a shaman. I read the boards here and on warcraft.com. On both sites, shamans complain about earthquake and how poor we are at AOE cause tanks move. About abysmal single target dps cause Lightning Bolt is no longer castable while moving.

    "Shamans have no utility," they have way more than a rogue or warrior, but both those classes are top tier.

    In both instances the argument is not true. Your statistic about the top 500 people is not a valid one. 500 of 7million players is .00007% of the WoW population. Even multiplied by the 36 specs, 0.0025% of the population, is not an interest rate to write blog about.

    If you're trying to play a "top tier class" and be part of the 0.0025%, you're always going to be disappointed. Been playing since vanilla and every class has had its moment in the spotlight (will never forget ret paladins at WotLK release). Every class is fine, nothing is completely broken. If you don't like it, reroll or quit entirely.
    If you're going to be a little shit who plays a shaman, why bother commenting on a Demon Hunter thread? This isn't a conversation about Shaman, Pallies, or Monks so no one really gives a fuck about them here. The fact remains that Havoc was bottom 4 all of ToS and one of the worst specs in M+ since they gutted our AoE in Emerald Nightmare. These are facts, not opinions. Demon Hunter has not had a chance to shine, we got nerfed 1 week into Emerald Nightmare, before Mythic even was released. We were decent in Nighthold. Now we're garbage in ToS. Again facts. So before you're like "oh but what about my class" just shut up because this isn't a thread about you or your class.

    INFRACTION
    Last edited by Hugh Wattmate; 2017-11-22 at 07:04 PM. Reason: INFRACTION

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    If you're going to be a little shit who plays a shaman, why bother commenting on a Demon Hunter thread? This isn't a conversation about Shaman, Pallies, or Monks so no one really gives a fuck about them here. The fact remains that Havoc was bottom 4 all of ToS and one of the worst specs in M+ since they gutted our AoE in Emerald Nightmare. These are facts, not opinions. Demon Hunter has not had a chance to shine, we got nerfed 1 week into Emerald Nightmare, before Mythic even was released. We were decent in Nighthold. Now we're garbage in ToS. Again facts. So before you're like "oh but what about my class" just shut up because this isn't a thread about you or your class.
    Why do you just fuck off?

    He brought a valid point. You didn't like it so you attack him.

    At this point, you're the little shit who brings nothing to the table. If you think we suck so much, PLAY SOMETHING ELSE and fuck off with your attitude

    INFRACTION
    Last edited by Hugh Wattmate; 2017-11-24 at 10:05 PM. Reason: INFRACTION

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoWolf View Post
    Why do you just fuck off?

    He brought a valid point. You didn't like it so you attack him.

    At this point, you're the little shit who brings nothing to the table. If you think we suck so much, PLAY SOMETHING ELSE and fuck off with your attitude
    He brought nothing to the table, I brought an argument and he's like "wah wah what about Shaman and Paladin". That's not what this thread is about and he said nothing to refute anything I said.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    Not going to speak as to whether you're right or wrong.... however, you do realize that your argument is one that a lot of classes have, "bottom tier, worst AoE, bad single target, no utility." Go look at the paladin, shaman, monk, etc forum boards. They are all having the same crappy (invalid) argument.

    I play a shaman. I read the boards here and on warcraft.com. On both sites, shamans complain about earthquake and how poor we are at AOE cause tanks move. About abysmal single target dps cause Lightning Bolt is no longer castable while moving.

    "Shamans have no utility," they have way more than a rogue or warrior, but both those classes are top tier.

    In both instances the argument is not true. Your statistic about the top 500 people is not a valid one. 500 of 7million players is .00007% of the WoW population. Even multiplied by the 36 specs, 0.0025% of the population, is not an interest rate to write blog about.

    If you're trying to play a "top tier class" and be part of the 0.0025%, you're always going to be disappointed. Been playing since vanilla and every class has had its moment in the spotlight (will never forget ret paladins at WotLK release). Every class is fine, nothing is completely broken. If you don't like it, reroll or quit entirely.
    Anything is viable to the majority of players. We're not talking about that though.

    There is a real power difference between top and bottom specs atm. Brushing it off by saying "everything is viable to majority of players" doesn't do proper balancing any justice.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepercat View Post
    Anything is viable to the majority of players. We're not talking about that though.

    There is a real power difference between top and bottom specs atm. Brushing it off by saying "everything is viable to majority of players" doesn't do proper balancing any justice.
    I can't recall a single time in wow when it was perfectly balanced. At this point I'm convinced they have stats that tell them people play more trying to chase the carrot rather than finally giving them the carrot and they quit and stop playing/paying

  12. #32
    Keep it civil please.
    - Death Knight/Demon Hunter/Monk Moderator -

  13. #33
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ny%24false%240

    I tank with a druid friend usually and let me tell u, i tank for more time and take less damage as a VDh and him.
    DH are ok as tank not OP but good spot. Check the log and check the treath and damage taken. I dont spamm heal on me unless it's really needed.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    There's no underselling anywhere, the statistics prove it. There's next to no Havoc Demon Hunters being brought to high keys for M+. That's a fact, there are plenty of AoE stuns in the game with shorter cooldowns, even after you spec for it. Havoc is garbage all around, so I highly doubt you actually have played the spec in the last 9 months.

    There's no underselling veng either, the statistics prove that as well by being the least used tank all of ToS progression their damage mitigation is the worst of any tank in game, the only thing they have going for them is their high damage, which literally means nothing when you die because you're taking 70% of your health pool in a single melee swing on a later mythic boss.
    That's honestly mostly true. I agree with this post.

    We are not bad, by any means. But there are other classes that can do what we do and do it either better, or more efficiently.

    This has prevented a lot of M+ guilds from giving up one of their spots to take a chance on a class that can do this, rather than that spot going to a class they KNOW can do it.

    *EDIT* Increased space for readability.
    Revelation 21:6 - I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ny%24false%240

    I tank with a druid friend usually and let me tell u, i tank for more time and take less damage as a VDh and him.
    DH are ok as tank not OP but good spot. Check the log and check the treath and damage taken. I dont spamm heal on me unless it's really needed.
    That just means your druid friend is bad, sorry. If a Veng is taking less damage than a Guardian, that means the Guardian doesn't know how to play.

    Edit: After looking at the logs, yes, he's terrible. 19% uptime on Ironfur lol. 3 uses of Barkskin over almost 7 minutes. He just doesn't know how to play Guardian correctly.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    That just means your druid friend is bad, sorry. If a Veng is taking less damage than a Guardian, that means the Guardian doesn't know how to play.

    Edit: After looking at the logs, yes, he's terrible. 19% uptime on Ironfur lol. 3 uses of Barkskin over almost 7 minutes. He just doesn't know how to play Guardian correctly.
    because he doest not need to use more if not tanking. He saves the big CDS for Felclaws. On the intermision phase i soak all the big ones.
    My point is that Veng DH is a very solid tank for progress. With the rework he can tank just fine.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    because he doest not need to use more if not tanking. He saves the big CDS for Felclaws. On the intermision phase i soak all the big ones.
    My point is that Veng DH is a very solid tank for progress. With the rework he can tank just fine.
    When he actually had the boss he used it under 30% of his active tank time, he's terrible. Don't try to argue that he's a decent tank when he isn't. You're using a bad tank to argue that Veng is in a good place and they aren't at all.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    When he actually had the boss he used it under 30% of his active tank time, he's terrible. Don't try to argue that he's a decent tank when he isn't. You're using a bad tank to argue that Veng is in a good place and they aren't at all.
    Well that is you opinion, he just does not need to blow all his cds while his tanking. The point is Veng DH is a very solid tank like most of the tanks right now maybe excluding Prot Warr that is a bit weaker.
    Havoc is the one spec in need of some love from Blizz.

  19. #39
    Havoc will probably be a steaming hot pile of poop next expansion. Make sure you give McDonald's an upper decker.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    Well that is you opinion, he just does not need to blow all his cds while his tanking. The point is Veng DH is a very solid tank like most of the tanks right now maybe excluding Prot Warr that is a bit weaker.
    Havoc is the one spec in need of some love from Blizz.
    Its not an opinion lol, its a fact. He doesn't use his AM, that has no cooldown, anywhere near enough.

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