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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Right there. Saying you think SV should be a tank spec and posting a concept for doing so = forcing an unwanted idea on the Hunter class. And yes it is unwanted because most Hunters are playing the ranged specs and most certainly not asking for a tank spec on the forums.
    I fail to see how that is being forced. Simply posting an idea isnt forcing anything.

    Most is irrelevant though i would challenge you to support that claim of "most", even if 1 person wants it that by definition trumps "unwanted".

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    "Wishful thinking" is a euphemism for "wanting it to be implemented". You're not going to make this look any better by dressing up the wording.
    wanting it and forcing it are two different things though.
    just stop trying to make this look like an act of malice.

    If I vote for an underrepresented party, or create a party on my own, I'm not forcing anything.
    I'm simply wishing for something to happen, even if it's unlikely to happen.

    Gonna love it that you believe there is some secret meaning or secret conspiracy behind his post... geez, get out of your SV hate train.
    Last edited by KrayZee; 2017-11-21 at 06:21 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Agallion View Post
    I fail to see how that is being forced. Simply posting an idea isnt forcing anything.

    Most is irrelevant though i would challenge you to support that claim of "most", even if 1 person wants it that by definition trumps "unwanted".
    You had the occasional "I have an idea for a melee Hunter" post on the forums throughout the past few years, and despite these posts being just
    "ideas" and failing to get any positive attention melee Hunters eventually were forced onto the Class. People don't post these ideas for nothing; they intend to see them implemented. When it's something as deeply unpopular as a Hunter Tank spec, it's absolutely forcing an unwanted idea on the class.

    Also, that second line is absolutely laughable. There is no issue at all that is entirely one-sided, so by your definition absolutely no idea is "unwanted" no matter how unpopular. For example, if you were to in full sincerity suggest to remove the Hunter class from the game, that would obviously be a massively unpopular idea and anyone with any shred of sanity would call that an unwanted idea. I GUARANTEE you will have people in support of that. It might only be a handful of people against thousands, but you will find people who genuinely think it's a good idea. God damn, I guarantee you would find actual Hunters who support the idea, or at least accept it and stand by silently out of some reverence for Blizzard or something. That doesn't make the idea not "unwanted". When we use words like "unwanted", there is an obvious, implied caveat that it doesn't apply to absolutely everyone and there will be some fringe minority that actually does want the idea. Claiming that just one person going against the grain invalidates the label is meaningless pedantry to the maximum.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    wanting it and forcing it are two different things though.
    Not really, no. Again: "Would really like to see survival made into a tank spec".

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    just stop trying to make this look like an act of malice.
    Any Hunter spec made into a tank spec = someone loses their favourite spec. That's malicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    Gonna love it that you believe there is some secret meaning or secret conspiracy behind his post... geez, get out of your SV hate train.
    This isn't even about Legion Survival. It's about the idea of a Hunter Tank, which is an idea well worth hating. If the OP had said BM should be tank, I would have made the exact same posts because the idea would be bad for all the same reasons.
    Last edited by FpicEail; 2017-11-22 at 09:42 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Not really, no. Again: "Would really like to see survival made into a tank spec".

    Uhu.... totally a demand. not.

    Any Hunter spec made into a tank spec = someone loses their favourite spec. That's malicious.
    No it's not, like by definition it's not and not even metaphorical - there is no ill will or harmful influence in expressing your preferences and making suggestions. You are a waste of time talking to. Stop making shit up, your twisted perception of words and the world doesn't apply to us.

    You are trying so hard to justify your shitpost... and you fail so miserably - to the point where you pretend to not even speak or understand the english language anymore.

    People don't post these ideas for nothing; they intend to see them implemented. When it's something as deeply unpopular as a Hunter Tank spec, it's absolutely forcing an unwanted idea on the class.
    Of course they intend to see them implemented? But that doesn't mean it's forced? It's not that hard to understand
    How many people asked for Wotlk-WoD SV btw... I mean, during BC
    How is that issue even related? Blizzard is doing whatever they want anyway. Either we like the change, or we don't.

    At no point in BC did I ever assume to cast Explosive shot and BA.
    I was buffing the group and supporting it with immense amounts of AP. I expected SV to remain that way.

    "Oh nooo... Blizzard, your malevolence has no limits. You forced your idea onto me. I lost my favorite spec and role in the raid"

    Weird, the spec you like so much replaced "mine" to the point where it became just another DPS spec. Are you responsible for this?
    Last edited by KrayZee; 2017-11-22 at 11:41 PM.

  5. #25
    Personally I hate it when the classes stagnate but to that point, the hunter class I loved has been gone for years now. They told me to get over it but I'll always hold those Wrath days near and dear to my heart. I still haven't gotten used to mobility, the lack of charge time between shots and the no dead zone face-hunters, it all still feels weird. None the same, I love playing around with class concepts too. It only serves to reignite my love of the game that much more. I'd heavily encourage everyone to play around with your own dream spec, I made a bunch and posted them elsewhere, no offence but these serves can seem rather hostile at times.

    Regardless I like the idea of splitting damage between a Tank and a pet, that went into my own Barbarian Hunter spec idea but rather than merely having a pet to attack enemies I thought maybe they could use mountable pets instead and ride them into combat, dismounting for normalish DPS instead. I also like your use of traps, I’ve never cared for the little blighters myself but nevertheless I can appreciate your work into them.

    Just thought I’d share some of my own, three Hunter Tanks and one heals as a matter of fact. I apologize in advance for my poor formatting but the technical aspect is not my forte so the obviously the numbers would be way off from functional, even broke or not powerful enough in places. I also had a Bounty Hunter spec idea with a flamethrower and a jet pack, grenade, net and burn focus.


    -------Hunter, New Specializations-------

    Barbarian (Minion DPS/Mount Tank): A Hunter who rides into battle, their mighty stampeded is a force to be reckoned.

    -Mount/Dismount: While Mounted, movement speed and health is increased by 115% and 400% respectively.
    -Hide of Behemoth: On use, gain an additional 100% total health and allies under you will take 50% less damage from AoE.
    -Unbreakable Bound: Passive - You and your companion regenerate 5% of your total health every 2 seconds. On use, this ability will heal 25% of your total health instantly.
    -Frothing Rage: Foaming at the mouth, attack damage and resistance will gradually grow higher until capping at 85%.
    -Crash and Thrash: A short charge that knocks enemies aside, slowing movement and applying the debuff Trampled.
    -Harpoon: Harpoon an enemy, silences on hit and for the remaining duration they are leashed to you. *3 leashes maximum.
    *Using Crash and Thrash will yank the chain and cause them to bleed even more, Trampled enemies can not resist being pulled by you.
    *Dismounting: Removes current threat, reduces threat generated and increases damage by 25%. Enemies remain leashed.
    (Physical, Melee Range, Rage, Two-handed, Mount/Pet Tank)

    The idea to for the Barbarian Hunter is simple. Out health everything, ignore most of the pain, grab enemies and pull/knock them away as needed.

    Amber Shaper (Construct Heals): Using the powers of Klaxxi Amber Shapers, they protect allies from harm.
    -Amber Queen: Deep within an Amber Parasite Queen sleeps. On use, she will sing to her children causing them to heal their host.
    -Amber Parasites: Infect an ally with Amber Parasites, healing over time when sung to or instantly, when fed Amber Oozes.
    -Sonic Resonance: Throw a Amber Crystal, shattering it and healing allies as if sung to. *Use on Amber Prison for healing Aura.
    -Amber Prison: Encase a target within Amber, removes threat and prevents damage for the duration. *Doesn't remove you from combat as the Prison may be attacked.
    -Viscous Grenade: Throw to encase allies within a thin layer of resin, turning damage taken into damage over time.
    -Living Amber: Become an Amber Monstrosity, Amber will seep from you onto the ground slowing enemies and healing allies.
    *Amber Ooze's will periodically spawn and seek out allies with the low health to heal but may be consumed to heal yourself.
    (Magical, Ranged, Mana, Staff, Construct, Heals)

    A healing spec. The Amber Hunter is a dedicated five-man healer, a bit locational healing, a bit of damage reduction.

    Siegemaster (Construct Tank): Ride a Siege Tank into battle and call on Demolishers to strike from afar.
    -Guts and Grits: Ram your enemies, those who can will be damaged and knocked away. *Generates High Threat and lowers cool downs.
    -Shield Generator: On Use, clears you of any Shielding related debuffs. *Your Construct cannot be healed, only Shielded.
    -Jury Rigging/Repair: You can make efforts to maintain your Tank in combat but eventually you'll need to exit and repair your Tank.
    -Tank Shell: A powerful projectile that deals damage to enemies in an area, Jury Rigging has a 1/4 chance to reset this cool down instantly.
    -Demolisher Strike: A powerful AoE that damage all enemies around you, repair will instantly reset this cool down.
    -Anti-Air Rockets: Fires a volley of Anti-Air rockets that deal 50% more damage to airborne enemies, silences on hit.
    (Physical, Melee/Ranged, Focus, One-handed mace and off-hand, Construct Tank)

    Another tank spec. This one cannot be healed at all. Instead it has a method to remove shielding debuffs from itself. Off-tanks would need to tank while it repairs. Other than that, it’s mostly just a siege tank.

    Sorcerery, Hunter: The kings of magic have returned! And we shall be your shield.
    -Arcane Slash: A sweeping attack that hits all nearby enemies generating 1 stack of Arcane Empowerment. (Max, DoT)
    -Shield Charge: Charge at an enemy with your shield, at max stacks this pulls all other enemies to that one. (Max, Stun)
    -Nova Pulse: A soft pulse of Arcane energy that damages enemies and slowly pushes them away with each pulse. (Max, Slow)
    -Summon Arcane Elementals: Summon and command up to 1 Arcane Elemental, per stack, to attack enemies.
    -Arcane Barrier: Create a Shield for 100%, per stack, of your total health. dealing massive damage if dispelled or shattered.
    -Reverse Time: Heals back damage taken in the last 10 seconds per stack. On death, during combat, instantly resurrects.
    *Arcane Empowerment - Passive: Each stack increases haste by 15% and at max stacks they further empowers your spells.
    *Nova Pulse - Toggle: Instead of casting normally, right-clicking will do so on cooldown but at increasing mana cost.
    *Arcane Elementals - Passive: All damage taken by you is instead split evenly among you and all active Arcane Elementals.
    (Magical, Melee Range, Mana, Onehanded and Shield, Constructs, Tank)

    Last tank spec for my Hunters. Based a bit on the Ogre Sorcerer King and the Nightfallen. This one focuses on undoing damage and shield generation.

    Regardless bud, dare to dream and never let them tell you otherwise.

  6. #26
    you know what a cool concept for a hunter spec would be. i was thinking maybe fire arrows and poisons. maybe a couple of magic shots too.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Zethras's Avatar
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    Can we all take a moment and appreciate how triggered FpicEail is right now over an idea?
    Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.
    So I chose the path of the Ebon Blade, and not a day passes where i've regretted it.
    I am eternal, I am unyielding, I am UNDYING.
    I am Zethras, and my blood will be the end of you.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    Uhu.... totally a demand. not.
    So, forgive me for saying OP was personally forcing the idea on the class: they just really want it to be forced on the class. So much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    No it's not, like by definition it's not and not even metaphorical - there is no ill will or harmful influence in expressing your preferences and making suggestions. You are a waste of time talking to. Stop making shit up, your twisted perception of words and the world doesn't apply to us.
    OP wants people to lose their favourite spec. Even if it's the melee players losing it this time, that's what the OP wants to happen. That's malicious.

    Sure, OP didn't directly say he didn't want people to lose their favourite spec, but that's the logical and well-known side effect of implementing that idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    How many people asked for Wotlk-WoD SV btw... I mean, during BC
    WotLK changes aren't comparable because they were additive and not reformative. Legion's changes and OP's changes are reformative.

    You COULD argue that Cata's changes are comparable with the switch from mana to focus, but even then the intended (and actual) result of that decision was to enhance t he existing playstyle strengths of the class. Legion's SV changes and OP's suggested changes intend to replace an existing playstyle of the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    I was buffing the group and supporting it with immense amounts of AP. I expected SV to remain that way.
    Almost every SV mechanic from BC carried over into WotLK. Including Exposed Weakness, plus the new mana battery buff. The only loss was Readiness to Marksmanship (I still think this was a very poor decision, but it later became baseline anyway).

    Yes, those buffs didn't last. That was not a targeted removal of an old playstyle. Firstly, it's not a playstyle change. Secondly, it was part of an effort to remove the dependence on particular specs for certain buffs in raids. You know, the whole "bring the player not the class" philosophy. Whether you agree to that is up to you; there are pros and cons to both sides of the debate. Personally, I do agree to it but I think the class buffs of BfA are an acceptable compromise. That's another discussion, though.

  9. #29
    Mechagnome kraid's Avatar
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    This idea remind me of that time a gorilla tanked 25 normal ICC in wotlk, I like your ideas.
    Hail

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    If Survival going melee was so controversial, what the hell makes you think Survival going tank will be any better? The lesson to be learned from Survival's remake is that role changes do not work.

    Plus, we just had this discussion on the official forums. It went pretty much how you would expect. Near universal condemnation for the idea, so much so that the OP snapped and deleted all his posts.
    There are too many melees in this game and probably not nearly enough tanks. Having survival go tanking spec instead of melee makes a lot more sense for the game.

    In case my guild tanks are not around, i can step up and be the tank for the night rather than waste that raiding night because we do not have tanks. What can another melee do? Rogues can do soak mechanic, warrior, dh and dk are awesome AOE melee, why do we need another melee hunter?

    This is an excellent idea IMHO.

  11. #31
    Agreed.
    I would play melee hunter only if surv will become a tank.

    Personally I don't even bother about balance, I will use it only for random dungeons or LFR.

    It could work if all pet's aggro will transfer to your character.

    You don't throw the glaive in enemy like dh, you throw your pet on them.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Terrible idea. Stop trying to force unwanted ideas on the Hunter class.
    There's nothing else to add to this, honestly. Just flat out terrible. No thanks. There are more tanking classes already than ranged dps classes and you want to give hunter an absolutely pointless tank spec? No. Period.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral shade3891's Avatar
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    Why would it be pointless? It allows you to forfill another role, giving you more options how to play. Hunter would still have two ranged-dps specs options..

    Ignoring FpicEail... I feel like your just trolling.

  14. #34
    Over 9000! prwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Terrible idea. Stop trying to force unwanted ideas on the Hunter class.
    Honestly I agree. Just give me my survival spec back. Why did you have to destroy it blizz. my hunter has collected dust ever since.

  15. #35
    Brilliant. Just put in place of Beast Mastery and we'll have destroyed an entire class.

  16. #36
    I personally would not like to see survival become a tank spec. I really wanted to see dark ranger become a thing, but it doesn't look like blizzard is going that route either. I'm probably just going to go play vanilla when that comes out. I'm pretty disillusioned with recent class directions taken in legion.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by RaZz0r View Post
    I agree 100% with this if hunters where to have a melee spec BM would make the most sense but adding a melee spec to a class that has been ranged for over a decade just feels wrong.
    Not to mention that Survival right now feels more like what Beastmaster should be. There is literally more synergy with the pet as Survival than there is as Beastmaster.
    And on top of all that, old survival was more original, more fun, better designed and stronger than BM. It needs to come back.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    You had the occasional "I have an idea for a melee Hunter" post on the forums throughout the past few years, and despite these posts being just
    "ideas" and failing to get any positive attention melee Hunters eventually were forced onto the Class. People don't post these ideas for nothing; they intend to see them implemented. When it's something as deeply unpopular as a Hunter Tank spec, it's absolutely forcing an unwanted idea on the class.

    Also, that second line is absolutely laughable. There is no issue at all that is entirely one-sided, so by your definition absolutely no idea is "unwanted" no matter how unpopular. For example, if you were to in full sincerity suggest to remove the Hunter class from the game, that would obviously be a massively unpopular idea and anyone with any shred of sanity would call that an unwanted idea. I GUARANTEE you will have people in support of that. It might only be a handful of people against thousands, but you will find people who genuinely think it's a good idea. God damn, I guarantee you would find actual Hunters who support the idea, or at least accept it and stand by silently out of some reverence for Blizzard or something. That doesn't make the idea not "unwanted". When we use words like "unwanted", there is an obvious, implied caveat that it doesn't apply to absolutely everyone and there will be some fringe minority that actually does want the idea. Claiming that just one person going against the grain invalidates the label is meaningless pedantry to the maximum.

    Irrelevant, according to this logic we shouldnt be talking about anything at all, less it be picked up as an idea by the devs!

    Second, I am sorry you dont know what words mean. Unwanted, literally means, without want. Nobody wants it. Well clearly some people want it, thus its not unwanted, by definition.

  19. #39
    I'd rather see a shammy tank, they already use shields, seems a more logical progression...

  20. #40
    Neat, but not as a replacement for Survival. I'd rather see a new class like Spellbreakers as mail tanks.

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