Theres only one possible class left they can add to the game

[LanToaster]

A role-playing game is not comprised of just game mechanics, and lore be damned. Lore can be just as important (and arguably even more so), as game mechanics. And, lore-wise, there is no real difference between a tinker and an engineer. Both have the exact same skill set. "Yeah, but one is a class the other a profession!" Remember what I just wrote? Lore is important. "Yeah, but mages and enchanters--" No. Enchanters and mages are not the same thing. Enchanting is one of several schools of magic, which vary greatly among each other. That's like saying a pediatrician and a brain surgeon are the same thing and interchangeable. Engineering has no difference between its "schools" other than design flair. Both create and use the exact same nuts and bolts with the same basic rules. The only basic difference is that goblins seem to tend to put their faces on their designs and have a little less concern about safety hazards.

From a Lore standpoint:
An Engineer builds as Hobby, or to improve on his/others life. (Profession)
For a Tinker, engineering IS his life, his very ambitions in Engineering is driving him forward.
Anyone cane be an Engineer, but not anyone can be a Tinker.

THis is something I would buy.

A class is the essence of a Character. While a Profession is just what he does. Again: Afaik Mekkadrill is considered a Tinker (Correct me if I´m wrong)
For the same reason I would also buy a kind of Mage who speciallizes in Enchanting. He Bolsters his allys with powerfull enchantments, and distorts enemies or their surroundings. Could also work, though this could possibly mix bad with the Existing Mage. (Note this is not a Recommendation for a Class)

[Ielenia]

Problem is: While Tinker is technically a class in WarCraft, (Mekkadrill is considered a Tinker afaik), none of the other classes you listed appeared at any time in Warcraft.

Correct me if I´m wrong though.

If by "Mekkadrill", you mean "Gelbin Mekkatorque", the king of the gnomes, then I'm sorry but "High Tinker" is just a political position title. As for your claim that "none of the other classes listed ever appeared in Warcraft"...
Here's the necromancer:

Here's two bards:

[Rurin]

If by "Mekkadrill", you mean "Gelbin Mekkatorque", the king of the gnomes, then I'm sorry but "High Tinker" is just a political position title. As for your claim that "none of the other classes listed ever appeared in Warcraft"...

Vol'jin is a shadow hunter and Anduin is a plate-wearing priest. There are lot of classes in lore that aren't playable

[Ielenia]

From a Lore standpoint:
An Engineer builds as Hobby, or to improve on his/others life. (Profession)
For a Tinker, engineering IS his life, his very ambitions in Engineering is driving him forward.
Anyone cane be an Engineer, but not anyone can be a Tinker.

Except, for engineers, engineering also is 'his life', driving him forward through his ambitions. I mean, do you really think engineers build the Alliance's greatest flying ship, the Skyfire, as a "hobby"? How about Millie Watt, the "Ultra-master Engineeress"? Or Millificent Manastorm? Or the engineers who risked their lives on the front line back in MoP? Were they also just doing it "for a hobby'? There are many more examples of engineers who don't do it "as a hobby", but actually have engineering s their own driving force for their ambitions.

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Vol'jin is a shadow hunter and Anduin is a plate-wearing priest. There are lot of classes in lore that aren't playable

You can play as a "plate-wearing priest". It's called a "paladin". Literally. Paladins are literally priests in plate. As for "shadow hunters", they were a WC3 hero unit that got absorbed by the 'shaman' WoW player class. 'Shadow hunters' now exist only as a title. Much like Wardens nowadays are just a title for the Night Elf's company of rogues, like SI:7 is for Humans.

[Deleted]

Necromancer...Death Knight
Puppeteer....Puppeteer
Bezerker/Mauler...Warrior
Bard/Herald.
Mesmer/Trickster....would be a Bard
Lithe/Siren...totally blanking on this class, but a siten is probably a Bard
Land/plant Shaper....Druid
And lots more...most of which would be different flavours of existing classes

Which isn't all that different from Tinker, a marksmanship hunter with alchemy and engineering. So your point is?

[Kiradyn]

Which isn't all that different from Tinker, a marksmanship hunter with alchemy and engineering. So your point is?

Neither Tinker hero used guns or bows, and neither does Mekkatorque in his mech.

Markmanship Hunter is like an Elven archer, or a Huntress. Those definitely aren't Tinkerers.

[Blamblam41]

Tinker already exists - we call it an engineer.

The two classes that have not yet appeared yet are:

* Melee Healer
* Ranged Tank

By that logic, why did they add Demon hunters? We have a scribe that can make glyphs....

Which, if you didn't catch it, the point was that engineering has about as much to do with tinker as scribe does with demonhunters.

[Ielenia]

The two classes that have not yet appeared yet are:

* Melee Healer
* Ranged Tank

Actually... we already had a melee healer. Remember the Mistweaver Monk's first iterations and its fistweaving? You literally healed in melee by hitting the boss. As for ranged tank... I honestly doubt it could ever work with WoW's mechanics.

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By that logic, why did they add Demon hunters? We have a scribe that can make glyphs....

Which, if you didn't catch it, the point was that engineering has about as much to do with tinker as scribe does with demonhunters.

You're wrong, there. There is no difference between an engineer and a tinker. Both have the exact same skill set. You can't say the same about scribes and demon hunters. Hell, other than having used ritualistic tattoos on their bodies, the two are nothing alike.

[Kiradyn]

You're wrong, there. There is no difference between an engineer and a tinker.

Except for aesthetics, abilities, power levels, lore, etc.

Yeah, no difference at all...

[Deleted]

*Don't say tinker, don't say tinker, don't say tinker*

My bet was on necro. It was 50-50.

[Ielenia]

Except for aesthetics, abilities, power levels, lore, etc.

Yeah, no difference at all...

Aesthetics: no difference at all.
Abilities: purely gameplay definitions. Left-clicking an icon on your spellbook that says "throw a bomb" is no different, lore-wise, than right-clicking an item in your back-pack with a 'use' ability that says "throw a bomb".
Power levels: purely a gameplay definition.
Lore: the exact same.

[Kiradyn]

Aesthetics: no difference at all.

Tinkerers have robotic claw packs or wearable robots that double as weapon platforms. Where is this in the profession? What engineers in-game have ever had this device?

Abilities: purely gameplay definitions. Left-clicking an icon on your spellbook that says "throw a bomb" is no different, lore-wise, than right-clicking an item in your back-pack with a 'use' ability that says "throw a bomb".

Tinkerers don't throw bombs, they launch them from their weapon platforms. See Cluster Rockets, Xplodium Charge, and Grav-O-Bomb 3000.

Power levels: purely a gameplay definition.

Yet a clear difference, since gameplay is a very important aspect of the game.

Lore: the exact same.

Lore hints that only Gnomes and Goblins can be Tinkerers. Engineers can be of any race.

[Teriz]

Always interesting to see certain posters trying to equate the Tinker to a profession or the completely unrelated Hunter class, yet have absolutely no issue advocating for Necromancers or Demon Hunters.

If you (and clearly Blizzard) have no issue ripping apart existing classes to get your class concept of choice into the game, why would you care about overlap between a Tinker class and engineering profession?

It also should be said that if Blizzard is willing to completely remove a specialization for DHs, they clearly would have no qualms about altering a profession for the Tinker class.

[Ielenia]

Tinkerers have robotic claw packs or wearable robots that double as weapon platforms. Where is this in the profession? What engineers in-game have ever had this device?

No Tinker in the history of WoW has ever displayed any of what you just mentioned, just FYI. Especially since you follow up with "what engineers in-game have".

Tinkerers don't throw bombs, they launch them from their weapon platforms. See Cluster Rockets, Xplodium Charge, and Grav-O-Bomb 3000.

You're being pedantic, there. You understood exactly what I meant. Engineers do those things as well.

Yet a clear difference, since gameplay is a very important aspect of the game.

No, it's not. It's a purely gameplay distinction that does not exist in the lore. An example for how meaningless "power level" is in this discussion is Nefarian, on BWL. He's a powerful dragon, a massive destructive world-threatening force.... that my DH can go and kill in one single toss of its warglaive.

Lore hints that only Gnomes and Goblins can be Tinkerers. Engineers can be of any race.

I call that BS. Show me where it says in the lore that only goblins and gnomes can be 'tinkerers'. Especially since we have dwarf tinkersm too.

[ReD-EyeD]

Paladin = ranged healer or melee dps.

You clearly don't know how holy paladins work.

[Ielenia]

Always interesting to see certain posters trying to equate the Tinker to a profession or the completely unrelated Hunter class, yet have absolutely no issue advocating for Necromancers or Demon Hunters.

I don't think I ever advocated for Necromancers. Also, it's funny because you, in the past, also supported demon hunters.

If you (and clearly Blizzard) have no issue ripping apart existing classes to get your class concept of choice into the game, why would you care about overlap between a Tinker class and engineering profession?

There is a big difference between removing four-five abilities that never belonged to said class in the first place and giving them to their de-facto 'owners', and making a class which its concept is the exact same, lore-wise, as an already existing concept within the game.

It also should be said that if Blizzard is willing to completely remove a specialization for DHs, they clearly would have no qualms about altering a profession for the Tinker class.

DHs never had a 'third specialization' so nothing was removed.

[Kiradyn]

No Tinker in the history of WoW has ever displayed any of what you just mentioned, just FYI. Especially since you follow up with "what engineers in-game have".

I'm talking about the WC3 hero, which is clearly a concept that Blizzard recognizes since they used it again in HotS, and several NPCs in WoW mention them in a heroic manner.

You're being pedantic, there. You understood exactly what I meant. Engineers do those things as well.

Yes I understood what you meant; Engineers throw bombs. Tinkerers have mobile weapon platforms that launch high-powered weaponry.

No, it's not. It's a purely gameplay distinction that does not exist in the lore. An example for how meaningless "power level" is in this discussion is Nefarian, on BWL. He's a powerful dragon, a massive destructive world-threatening force.... that my DH can go and kill in one single toss of its warglaive.

And my character can never defeat Nefarian with Engineering items. A clear departure from lore since in lore Goblins and Gnomes can construct weaponry that rivals magic and fighter abilities.

I call that BS. Show me where it says in the lore that only goblins and gnomes can be 'tinkerers'. Especially since we have dwarf tinkersm too.

Only Goblins and Gnomes mention Tinkerers, and like I said, when they discuss them, they talk about them as if they are legendary heroes.

[Ielenia]

I'm talking about the WC3 hero

Which is not canon, as far as I can tell.

Yes I understood what you meant; Engineers throw bombs. Tinkerers have mobile weapon platforms that launch high-powered weaponry.

They also fire missiles, drop turrets, and even pilot mechs. Again, all the stuff you claim tinkers do.

And my character can never defeat Nefarian with Engineering items.

Power level is meaningless. It's a self-defeating argument for the reasons I stated before. It's a gameplay balance thing, not a lore thing.

Only Goblins and Gnomes mention Tinkerers, and like I said, when they discuss them, they talk about as if they are legendary heroes.

That's irrelevant, because it doesn't prove that only gnomes and goblins can be tinkers, especially after I've shown you an example of non-goblin, non-gnome tinker.

[Teriz]

I don't think I ever advocated for Necromancers. Also, it's funny because you, in the past, also supported demon hunters.

I've never seen you in any necromancer thread ever opposing the concept. Yet you tend to pop up in every Tinker thread.

And I supported DHs until I realized they would adversely effect Warlock players.

There is a big difference between removing four-five abilities that never belonged to said class in the first place and giving them to their de-facto 'owners', and making a class which its concept is the exact same, lore-wise, as an already existing concept within the game.

Except there's no evidence lore-wise that professions are the same as classes. Further, classes are different from professions on a conceptual level.

DHs never had a 'third specialization' so nothing was removed.

I was talking about Warlocks getting a specialization changed for the incoming DH class. I apologize for the confusion.

[Kiradyn]

Which is not canon, as far as I can tell.

As I said, Tinkerers are mentioned in heroic terms within Goblin and Gnome lore.

They also fire missiles, drop turrets, and even pilot mechs. Again, all the stuff you claim tinkers do.

With horrendous cooldowns and limitations. Neither of which the Tinkerer class fantasy would possess.

Power level is meaningless. It's a self-defeating argument for the reasons I stated before. It's a gameplay balance thing, not a lore thing.

It's quite meaningful when I'm actually playing the game. You do know we're playing a game right?

That's irrelevant, because it doesn't prove that only gnomes and goblins can be tinkers, especially after I've shown you an example of non-goblin, non-gnome tinker.

If Gnomes and Goblins are the only races talking about Tinkerers, and Gnomes and Goblins are the only ones constructing and piloting robots, its safe to assume that they're the only races this concept applies to.