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  1. #21

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    The RX 580 is more expensive (in the US), uses more power, and I wouldn't say it beats it in every game. Certainly not WoW. The same extends to the lower memory versions. I'll consider listing multiple options, but it makes the list longer and more confusing for beginners.
    RX 580 beats 1060 in more games than it looses to it.
    It is better in low level API games dx12/vulkan
    Last i checked MMO-Champion is not WoW only
    Making those statements for Ryzen and RX 5** series are either blind or uneducated. PLEASE open your eyes, stop being an Intel shill and start being objective for this community.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophobia View Post
    RX 580 beats 1060 in more games than it looses to it.
    It is better in low level API games dx12/vulkan
    Last i checked MMO-Champion is not WoW only
    Making those statements for Ryzen and RX 5** series are either blind or uneducated. PLEASE open your eyes, stop being an Intel shill and start being objective for this community.
    jeeesus christ, seriously? man your life must be sad when this trifle can rustle your jimmies so hard.
    So everybody that disagree with your opinion is Intel shill? Count me in then.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    Yet another benchmark shows Ryzen as being slower: http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...review,26.html

    The AMD GPUs are not as great for WoW and are mostly equal to the Nvidia counterparts.

    Even if Intel, AMD, and Nvidia had all perfectly equal offerings, I'm only going to list one CPU and GPU most of the time, so you won't get both and someone is going to be unhappy here.
    Why are you suggesting a 2c/2t processor for a near $600 build in 2017? Why are you pairing it with an aftermarket cooler, the higher end chipset, and overkill psu?

    Your builds don't put enough budget into actual performance increasing parts and instead worry about arbitrary "future proofing" on an outdated product line. The fact that your $900 build has the same processor as the $1500 build is pretty insane too.

    And again.. Suggesting 2c/2t in 2017 for $575 is horrible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just glancing at Amazon prices on the puppy build. Grab a $20 Roswill case, a $50 b250 mobo, skip the aftermarket cooler, skip the dvd drive (if someone wants it they can add it but they should not be baseline on a budget oriented build), save $25 going for a 400w evga psu, and settle on some $88 ram instead of $110. Bam, another $170 ish you can put into adding an ssd and upgrading the gpu/cpu. You know, things that will actually affect performance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And your $940 build doesn't have an ssd.. I seriously think the slightly above average prebuilt will destroy these builds. They just are not good. Even considering that your hands are tied to Amazon and you don't think amd is worth recommending.

    Example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0747...oSL&ref=plSrch

    125 more than your budget build, but you get a monstrously better gpu and CPU.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073R...BSL&ref=plSrch

    $55 more than your narwhal, much better gpu (assuming 1060 setup) and you get an i7.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B074V...ords=gaming+pc

    130 cheaper then dolphin, get worse processor but same gpu and you get an ssd.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0757...oSL&ref=plSrch


    Craps on the unicorn for $70 more. Triple the threads, big gpu upgrade.

    I'd like to emphasize that these prebuilts aren't even on sale.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scart35 View Post
    jeeesus christ, seriously? man your life must be sad when this trifle can rustle your jimmies so hard.
    So everybody that disagree with your opinion is Intel shill? Count me in then.
    I tend to "lean Amd" but even discounting that these suggested builds are awful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    If you go back and look, I included AMD CPUs for years and AMD GPUs for years (when they had a huge price/performance advantage). Right now Intel and Nvidia are generally the better buy. I don't really care much about one company vs the other beyond hoping AMD does well so they can keep creating competition like they are with Ryzen.
    While I understand since this is primarily a WoW site, where Intel's superior single core performance generally does better, the majority of the PC building community disagrees with you on Intel being "generally the better buy" Vs Ryzen. Even when compared to Intel's 8th gen, which is plagued by low availability, inflated prices, and no low end motherboards. Meanwhile ryzen prices keep getting better and better, where your can get a true 4c/4t with an overclockable mobo for $150.

    Sorry for formatting, I'm on mobile.
    Last edited by Notdev; 2017-11-21 at 11:40 AM.
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  5. #25
    Field Marshal Anaxalexi's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
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    I'm impressed, another month of Intel / Nvidia fanboy... even with Ryzen now proven & Threadripper available for high end systems, the RX580 + Vega GPUs on the market and we're still recommending i5 processors and GTX cards. You even state you should keep you AMD Drivers upto date, without even mentions a single AMD product. Lets not mention the lack of competition in the retailer selection either. Overall a poor show, so how about a little balance... sound fair?

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Newegg)
    CPU Cooler: Corsair - H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($49.99 @ Newegg)
    Motherboard: Asus - STRIX B350-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($122.98 @ Newegg)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LED 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($169.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Corsair - Force MP500 120GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($73.98 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($94.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg)
    Video Card: Asus - Radeon RX 580 8GB ROG STRIX Video Card ($334.98 @ Newegg)
    Case: Corsair - Carbide 400C ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair - RMx 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.98 @ Newegg)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($139.99 @ Newegg)
    Total: $1456.85
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-21 17:40 EST-0500

    So this build sits in between Narwhal & Unicorn... so we'll call it Beluga

    Being a realist, I've not gone for stupid deals, silly can't be believed prices or special offers, although there are a couple of them in here unknowingly. I've also tried to be nice and match similar like for like products. I have chosen all my product from a single vendor, in this case NewEgg in the US, for two reasons; firstly it allows a $ for $ match against the existing suggestions and secondly it allow the purchase of all items from one vendor. However, if someone were to use the PCPartPicker link, then can change that to multiple vendors and buy at even cheaper prices. That all being said, lets start at the top:

    CPU
    I've been bold and chosen the Ryzen 5 1600X, 3.6ghz out the box, and clockable to around 4.0ghz on air with a little effort. It's multi core performance well exceeds that of the i5, and it only slightly held back in single core performance. However, as more software is tweaked for multi core performance, it'll begin to shine. Now that the gap in the price of the i5 and the 1600X are nearly the same, it's a no longer a shot in the dark.

    CPU Cooler
    I've chosen an AIO Water Cooler, which is a little overkill, but allows for cooler temps at lower fan speeds. You could chose to spend $20 less and go for the Hyper 212 EVO as shown in the Puppy build, but seriously, $50+ for a air cooler is just unreasonable in the days of self contained Water Cooling. Not to mention if your overclocking your processor where by you need the "extra cooling" provided by a $90 Air Cooler, then you already know what your doing.

    Motherboard
    Ok, so lets make this clear from here on in; I'm an Asus Fanboy... I've been using their products for nearly 20 years, in that time I've had other Manufacturers, including my Gigabyte workhorse in front of me now, but I've always used Asus for my Gaming PC.
    As for this board... you can click THIS LINK to find out the full specs, but it ticks all my boxes...

    Memory
    I've picked virtually the same memory as Narwhal & Unicorn, except it was cheaper & has LEDs... you can pick or chose you memory as you see fit, but here are some golden rules I abide by... Buy the most you can afford, within your budget. Always buy in pairs and try to match the Motherboards recommended vendor list and specs.
    This motherboard has four slots, allowing for an upgrade to another matched pair of 16GB in the future.

    Storage
    M.2 Drive... gone are the days of you having to use Flash USB Drives to instant boot Windows, they just plug straight into your Motherboard. Install your operating system on this and swap out your other drive as and when you like. I've grabbed a 120GB drive, which is enough for Windows 10, but they are available up to and over 1TB, for a price.
    SSD... Couldn't argue with the 250GB Samsung, personally my gaming PC has a 500GB SSD, purely for my Blizzard library, and the loading speeds are fantastic. Keeping it separate from my OS means should a get a virus, I can wipe Windows and start again, without losing all my gaming setups.
    HDD... I've chosen a Seagate (they are Western Digital, or was it the other way round?). I've also grabbed the Hybrid FireCuda. It's an awesome drive for things like Steam / Photoshop / Streaming as its built in SSD gives you quick access to the always used data, which the reliability of the HDD stores your archives.
    Of course, if you'd rather drop the M.2 for a larger SSD, or switch out the Hybrid for a standard HDD, you can shave off a few $$$.

    Video Card
    Now, while I support your chosen GTX1070, it was a little cheeky in that the Amazon list price is >$600 and it's on sale. It's on sale due to the release of the AMD RX580 & AMD Vega cards, the former I've chosen here. It might not match the 1070, and if you want a 1070 go for it, but a 1070 at >$600 will be beaten but 2x RX580 in crossfire... which, oh look, this Motherboard supports. Sadly, SLI doesn't seem to be supported, but if you want to spend stupid money then buy a VEGA or 2x for crossfire!

    Case
    Sticking with the Corsair love, I've grabbed the 400C. C = Clear, like that massive clear side panel to show off all your RGB goodness on the MB, RAM(LED anyway), Video Card... Fans, Light Strips, Water Cooling... you get the idea. Not only that, but it's a normal sized case, not some square monster thing.
    I actually have two of them; a 400C for my Gaming PC and a 400Q for the Workhorse. The Q = Quiet, no window, sound proofed panels, but the same chassis. The filtration is amazing, and it's got room for loads of fans. More fans = More air, More air = Lower fan speeds, Lower RPM = Less Noise.
    Speaking of which, I use the Positive Air Pressure method, that is to say all my front and top fans (all filtered) suck air into the case, while I have only two fans (rear and PSU) removing air. The basics of this mean the "excess" air is forced out of the holes and cracks pushing the dust out with it, keeping your system cleaner. I have used a Negative Air Pressure method in the old case for my Workhorse... it just pushed air out... meaning all the cracks became intakes and it turned into a dust monster.

    Power Supply
    Fully Modular, gets rid off all those unwanted cables, unless you have a Fan Controller using a FDD power connector(?) who needs that... you've got 2x HDDs why have five HDD power leads. Gold Rated... Platinum is better, but $200 for a PSU... not needed.
    650w... I always build my PCs with overheads, normally at least 150-200%... this system has a estimate power draw of 420w so 1.5x that = 650w PSU. I'd have liked to go for an 850w but this is on a budget. Why? because I was told a long time ago by an experienced engineer "Why stress your components, when you can allow them to work half as hard to do the same job". Why force your PSU to work hard all the time, when it can plod along nicely without stress continuously. You also have overclocking headroom, should you want to pump more juice into that CPU.

    Optical Drive
    Really... No, not for me... USB 3.0 / 3.1 support on the board and the case, grab an external DVD driver if you need one... or download the latest software, like drivers, from the manufacturers websites.

    Operating System
    Yup, you're going to need one of these, which is missing from all the above builds... you can actually buy Windows 10 on a USB Key, for $10 cheaper than the above price, from the same site... it's just not linked into PCPP yet. See, even no need for DVD drives for your OS.

    $1456 for the above... minus a few bits like $20 for Air Cooling, $75 to remove the M.2, you could shave a few off the HDD / GPU / RAM... you could probably get this system to around $1300... minus another $100 for the OS to match the Build of the Month, that's now $1200. Narwhal prices, for Unicorn performance. Plus, future upgrade-ablity... add a second graphics card, double your RAM, swap out the processor, add another SSD / HDD... all without having to totally strip out your case or replace your Motherboard / existing hardware.



    My Current Gaming PC
    AMD - Ryzen 7 1800X | Corsair - H110i | Asus - CROSSHAIR VI HERO | Asus - Radeon RX 480 8GB ROG STRIX
    Corsair - Vengeance LED 32GB (2x 16) DDR4-3000 Memory | Corsair - HX850i 850W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular
    Corsair - Force MP500 120GB M.2 | Corsair - Neutron XTi 480GB | Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 2.5" x2
    Corsair - Carbide 400C | Corsair - ML140 Pro LED 97.0 CFM 140mm Fan x2 + 120mm x1 | Corsair Link RGB LED Lighting & Commander Mini
    Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit | Asus - MG278Q 27.0" 2560x1440 144Hz | Logitech G19

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Nairesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    Yet another benchmark shows Ryzen as being slower: http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...review,26.html

    The AMD GPUs are not as great for WoW and are mostly equal to the Nvidia counterparts.

    Even if Intel, AMD, and Nvidia had all perfectly equal offerings, I'm only going to list one CPU and GPU most of the time, so you won't get both and someone is going to be unhappy here.
    That's mainly due to programming of the relevant "products". More and more games are being tuned to meet the Ryzen, leaving most intel behind.
    Trust me in this: I had intel for decades and still love them over AMD - but with Ryzen and intels lazy asses it's currently a lot better deal (especially if you play more than just WoW and possible do streaming, video editing etc > AMD wins)

    Please note: the new intel CPUs are great, but FAR too expensive and came out too late. Next year will be interesting again, but I won't upgrade for another 3 years with having an 8 core and 32Gigs of RAM. Only the GPU in maybe 1.5 years (1080)

    - - - Updated - - -

    This guy gets it. Thanks

    For any GERMAN users here (I know we may be few): https://www.computerbase.de/forum/sh...d.php?t=215394
    Best way to put together a decent PC and offers both INTEL and RYZEN solutions. That's how these lists should be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anaxalexi View Post
    I'm impressed, another month of Intel / Nvidia fanboy... even with Ryzen now proven & Threadripper available for high end systems, the RX580 + Vega GPUs on the market and we're still recommending i5 processors and GTX cards. You even state you should keep you AMD Drivers upto date, without even mentions a single AMD product. Lets not mention the lack of competition in the retailer selection either. Overall a poor show, so how about a little balance... sound fair?

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Newegg)
    CPU Cooler: Corsair - H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($49.99 @ Newegg)
    Motherboard: Asus - STRIX B350-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($122.98 @ Newegg)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LED 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($169.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Corsair - Force MP500 120GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($73.98 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($94.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg)
    Video Card: Asus - Radeon RX 580 8GB ROG STRIX Video Card ($334.98 @ Newegg)
    Case: Corsair - Carbide 400C ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair - RMx 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.98 @ Newegg)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($139.99 @ Newegg)
    Total: $1456.85
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-21 17:40 EST-0500

    So this build sits in between Narwhal & Unicorn... so we'll call it Beluga

    Being a realist, I've not gone for stupid deals, silly can't be believed prices or special offers, although there are a couple of them in here unknowingly. I've also tried to be nice and match similar like for like products. I have chosen all my product from a single vendor, in this case NewEgg in the US, for two reasons; firstly it allows a $ for $ match against the existing suggestions and secondly it allow the purchase of all items from one vendor. However, if someone were to use the PCPartPicker link, then can change that to multiple vendors and buy at even cheaper prices. That all being said, lets start at the top:

    CPU
    I've been bold and chosen the Ryzen 5 1600X, 3.6ghz out the box, and clockable to around 4.0ghz on air with a little effort. It's multi core performance well exceeds that of the i5, and it only slightly held back in single core performance. However, as more software is tweaked for multi core performance, it'll begin to shine. Now that the gap in the price of the i5 and the 1600X are nearly the same, it's a no longer a shot in the dark.

    CPU Cooler
    I've chosen an AIO Water Cooler, which is a little overkill, but allows for cooler temps at lower fan speeds. You could chose to spend $20 less and go for the Hyper 212 EVO as shown in the Puppy build, but seriously, $50+ for a air cooler is just unreasonable in the days of self contained Water Cooling. Not to mention if your overclocking your processor where by you need the "extra cooling" provided by a $90 Air Cooler, then you already know what your doing.

    Motherboard
    Ok, so lets make this clear from here on in; I'm an Asus Fanboy... I've been using their products for nearly 20 years, in that time I've had other Manufacturers, including my Gigabyte workhorse in front of me now, but I've always used Asus for my Gaming PC.
    As for this board... you can click THIS LINK to find out the full specs, but it ticks all my boxes...

    Memory
    I've picked virtually the same memory as Narwhal & Unicorn, except it was cheaper & has LEDs... you can pick or chose you memory as you see fit, but here are some golden rules I abide by... Buy the most you can afford, within your budget. Always buy in pairs and try to match the Motherboards recommended vendor list and specs.
    This motherboard has four slots, allowing for an upgrade to another matched pair of 16GB in the future.

    Storage
    M.2 Drive... gone are the days of you having to use Flash USB Drives to instant boot Windows, they just plug straight into your Motherboard. Install your operating system on this and swap out your other drive as and when you like. I've grabbed a 120GB drive, which is enough for Windows 10, but they are available up to and over 1TB, for a price.
    SSD... Couldn't argue with the 250GB Samsung, personally my gaming PC has a 500GB SSD, purely for my Blizzard library, and the loading speeds are fantastic. Keeping it separate from my OS means should a get a virus, I can wipe Windows and start again, without losing all my gaming setups.
    HDD... I've chosen a Seagate (they are Western Digital, or was it the other way round?). I've also grabbed the Hybrid FireCuda. It's an awesome drive for things like Steam / Photoshop / Streaming as its built in SSD gives you quick access to the always used data, which the reliability of the HDD stores your archives.
    Of course, if you'd rather drop the M.2 for a larger SSD, or switch out the Hybrid for a standard HDD, you can shave off a few $$$.

    Video Card
    Now, while I support your chosen GTX1070, it was a little cheeky in that the Amazon list price is >$600 and it's on sale. It's on sale due to the release of the AMD RX580 & AMD Vega cards, the former I've chosen here. It might not match the 1070, and if you want a 1070 go for it, but a 1070 at >$600 will be beaten but 2x RX580 in crossfire... which, oh look, this Motherboard supports. Sadly, SLI doesn't seem to be supported, but if you want to spend stupid money then buy a VEGA or 2x for crossfire!

    Case
    Sticking with the Corsair love, I've grabbed the 400C. C = Clear, like that massive clear side panel to show off all your RGB goodness on the MB, RAM(LED anyway), Video Card... Fans, Light Strips, Water Cooling... you get the idea. Not only that, but it's a normal sized case, not some square monster thing.
    I actually have two of them; a 400C for my Gaming PC and a 400Q for the Workhorse. The Q = Quiet, no window, sound proofed panels, but the same chassis. The filtration is amazing, and it's got room for loads of fans. More fans = More air, More air = Lower fan speeds, Lower RPM = Less Noise.
    Speaking of which, I use the Positive Air Pressure method, that is to say all my front and top fans (all filtered) suck air into the case, while I have only two fans (rear and PSU) removing air. The basics of this mean the "excess" air is forced out of the holes and cracks pushing the dust out with it, keeping your system cleaner. I have used a Negative Air Pressure method in the old case for my Workhorse... it just pushed air out... meaning all the cracks became intakes and it turned into a dust monster.

    Power Supply
    Fully Modular, gets rid off all those unwanted cables, unless you have a Fan Controller using a FDD power connector(?) who needs that... you've got 2x HDDs why have five HDD power leads. Gold Rated... Platinum is better, but $200 for a PSU... not needed.
    650w... I always build my PCs with overheads, normally at least 150-200%... this system has a estimate power draw of 420w so 1.5x that = 650w PSU. I'd have liked to go for an 850w but this is on a budget. Why? because I was told a long time ago by an experienced engineer "Why stress your components, when you can allow them to work half as hard to do the same job". Why force your PSU to work hard all the time, when it can plod along nicely without stress continuously. You also have overclocking headroom, should you want to pump more juice into that CPU.

    Optical Drive
    Really... No, not for me... USB 3.0 / 3.1 support on the board and the case, grab an external DVD driver if you need one... or download the latest software, like drivers, from the manufacturers websites.

    Operating System
    Yup, you're going to need one of these, which is missing from all the above builds... you can actually buy Windows 10 on a USB Key, for $10 cheaper than the above price, from the same site... it's just not linked into PCPP yet. See, even no need for DVD drives for your OS.

    $1456 for the above... minus a few bits like $20 for Air Cooling, $75 to remove the M.2, you could shave a few off the HDD / GPU / RAM... you could probably get this system to around $1300... minus another $100 for the OS to match the Build of the Month, that's now $1200. Narwhal prices, for Unicorn performance. Plus, future upgrade-ablity... add a second graphics card, double your RAM, swap out the processor, add another SSD / HDD... all without having to totally strip out your case or replace your Motherboard / existing hardware.



    My Current Gaming PC
    AMD - Ryzen 7 1800X | Corsair - H110i | Asus - CROSSHAIR VI HERO | Asus - Radeon RX 480 8GB ROG STRIX
    Corsair - Vengeance LED 32GB (2x 16) DDR4-3000 Memory | Corsair - HX850i 850W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular
    Corsair - Force MP500 120GB M.2 | Corsair - Neutron XTi 480GB | Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 2.5" x2
    Corsair - Carbide 400C | Corsair - ML140 Pro LED 97.0 CFM 140mm Fan x2 + 120mm x1 | Corsair Link RGB LED Lighting & Commander Mini
    Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit | Asus - MG278Q 27.0" 2560x1440 144Hz | Logitech G19

  7. #27
    What pisses me most is misleading people

    Chaud, shame on you.
    Last edited by Pyrophobia; 2017-12-02 at 04:50 PM.

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