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  1. #21
    As someone who mains Valeera, I am really not sure how to feel about this.
    I used to go with this build I made up that utilizes the attack speed from Slice and Dice with the armor reduction from Expose Armor.
    But now Expose Armor's gone along with Nightslayer...
    I am pretty lose right now but I'll still main Valeera :3

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Project129 View Post
    Well...

    Goodbye Abathur, Azmodan, Zagara, and Xul for your pushing potential is no longer existent. With the exclusion of ammunition Abathur no longer really has any strength in Bot or PVP pre level 10. Xul's Skeletons are practically useless and Azmodan's Demon Warriors are trashed. Now only Zagara will have any lane presence but her pushing is pretty much nerfed even with the .5 second cooldown between shots it won't seem to make any real change other than the tower is almost always firing and unless you use something like Demonic invasion you won't be forced to think too much on who you have to pressure on the enemy team.

    And goodbye every stealth character ever. Because now not only can I see you, but so can everyone else. Any ranged character can destealth you and any roaming stealth is now null and void.
    Basically nothing you just said is accurate.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    Ok, strong language incoming, mods please #forgive, but this is BULLSHIT

    Blizzard, stop your bullshit.

    What the fuck is this?

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Battleground Objectives
    The first Battleground objective event will now activate 90 seconds into the match, following a 30-second warning, for the following Battlegrounds
    and what the FUCK is this?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The first Battleground objective event will now activate 3 minutes into the match, following a 30-second warning, for the following Battlegrounds
    This game is no LoL, Blizzard. LoL has been copying from HotS like crazy the last 2 years, and now we go and copy that piece of shit? Why emphasize laning? What the fuck does this achieve for the 99% of players from GM and below?

    STOP FUCKING BALANCING FOR THE 0.2% of the population. NOBODY cares about how pros play. They play a different game. Do NOT make the same mistake Riot did 5 years ago. Keep this game for the players, not the pros. It becomes a job if the game is balanced around them, and not everyone else.

    FUCK this, I got so triggered. Haven't been this triggered for years.
    Wow, you seem kind of angry.. probably should seek some help if that set you off

  4. #24
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Zeratul does seem very strong right now.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  5. #25
    Pit Lord
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    I haven't played him myself but from the streams I've watched he seems a bit broken. Especially late game Zera.

  6. #26
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    RIP Valeera and Nova. The only thing that actually looks good in this patch is MMR.
    You should try actually PLAYING new Nova. She's a much stronger pick and so fucking obnoxious. Ghost Protocol as a baseline ability improves her potential immeasurably, as she can pop out for more aggressive play rather than skulking on the sidelines waiting to pick people off.

    And Apollo Suit at 20... holy crap man, you need to see that son of a bitch in action.
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  7. #27
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    I also figured out how Zeratul can solo a boss. You have to go Darkness Descends/Warp Skirm/VP/Menidng Strikes/Master Warp-Blade/Nexus Blades. You basically use all your cds then when he goes for a stomp you vp him, this allows your Dark D to go back on cd then have enough sustain to kill the boss.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Ghost Protocol as a baseline ability improves her potential immeasurably,
    Can I ask how? When being cloaked still leaves you plainly visible as fucking daylight, the ability to instantly cloak...doesn't seem like much good. I mean okay, the holo decoy dropped at your feet could potentially block a skillshot, I guess?

  9. #29
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Can I ask how? When being cloaked still leaves you plainly visible as fucking daylight, the ability to instantly cloak...doesn't seem like much good. I mean okay, the holo decoy dropped at your feet could potentially block a skillshot, I guess?
    When cloaked you are unable to be targetted. You can only be hit by skillshots.

    That's the important bit. You can, at will, make yourself temporarily immune to auto-attacks and targetted skills.
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  10. #30
    I feel like some people just aren’t on the PTR right now. I mean, it's a total shit show because every team is full of stealth, but these heroes aren’t shit right now. And they are literally invisible when not moving, people seem to be completely ignoring that. As a point of fact, situationally, they are less visible than before. It’s very strong.
    Last edited by Fabray; 2017-11-23 at 06:37 AM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    What about temporary stealth characters like Dehaka, Greymane, Tyrande and Sgt. Hammer? Dehaka and Greymane are losing their disengage tool (who cares you are in stealth, we can see you and chase u now), Hammer and Tyrande are less valuable in ambushin (hard to suprise enemy while you are visible).
    You still can't target them with point&click abilities and can't see them on the map...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    I am doing some preliminary stats on how long it will take for Abathur solo locust kill a fort.

    Okay I did some runs. Solo locust destroying a fort(and extra tower) takes 15:54 average minutess, and no ammo fort takes 20:10 mins. That is an increase of 4 minutes and 15 seconds.

    Honestly I don't like the change, it seems to have increased game time, but now I will test it in real game scenarios.
    Not really, it just moves importance of "passive pushing" like abbathur destroying a fort by just existing near the line to actual hero pushes supported by... specialist heroes. If anything, it will make Azmodan even more cancerous that he was before
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You still can't target them with point&click abilities and can't see them on the map...
    Hard to not see a Greymane which I attacked just second ago. And how many heroes can't reveal invisibles with basic skills? Only Samuro.

  13. #33
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Hard to not see a Greymane which I attacked just second ago. And how many heroes can't reveal invisibles with basic skills? Only Samuro.
    Tracer, Lili, Kharazim and Samuro flat-out can't. Then there are a ton more heroes for whom stealth-busting with their basics is impractical due to small proiectiles etc
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  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Not really, it just moves importance of "passive pushing" like abbathur destroying a fort by just existing near the line to actual hero pushes supported by... specialist heroes. If anything, it will make Azmodan even more cancerous that he was before
    Yeah, the change rewards conscious decisions to siege as a team or Heroes who are good at dealing PvE damage. If it is a good change or not, I am not sure.

    On one side, it is good to reduce strength of Heroes like Sonya for example. She is already very well rounded Hero as she has two viable Heroics, win most duels, does a lot of PvE damage, good in team fights and takes mercenaries without breaking a sweat. On top of that she could just easily ignore even less favourable matchups in lane by rushing into middle of minion wave while absorbing ammo from enemy towers as she is spinning. However I mainly like it for reducing the effectives of passive pushing as it always felt cheap to me.

    On the other hand I hate it as it removes a pretty cool aspect of a game where you could shine as an individual player. For example you could lose a direct 1v1, but since your wave clear was better you could play smart and still win the lane. Now this will break the dynamic and thus reduce another layer of complexity.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Hard to not see a Greymane which I attacked just second ago. And how many heroes can't reveal invisibles with basic skills? Only Samuro.
    I personally have no problem with pre-rework invisibility, because i've played SC2 a lot and kinda used to see these ripples. This change almost nothing for me - i'll still see Greymane dashing away - important part of invisibility is that you are hidden from map (so when you dash-invisibility as Greymane out of bush into unsuspecting Junkrat he can't notice you) and that you are untargetable, and there are more heroes that don't want to waste their skills for a reveal, and immunity to being attacked by Valla after she unloaded her bolters is still there. Invisibility retains its full functionality after this change

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    On the other hand I hate it as it removes a pretty cool aspect of a game where you could shine as an individual player. For example you could lose a direct 1v1, but since your wave clear was better you could play smart and still win the lane. Now this will break the dynamic and thus reduce another layer of complexity.
    I kinda agree, but you are still able to win 1v1 on a lane via pushing (say, Sonya vs Jaina) - creeps do ~10% more damage now, and Sonyas heal wasn't compensated for this change. So, in a scenario where Jaina stays behind her creep wave to deny Sonyas spear, drops Blizzard, waits for first wave to fall, CoCs the wave and clears all 7 creeps (luckily hitting Sonya with CoC) and spams frostbolt at her - she will not be able to heal through this sort of damage, Jaina will push forward, she will take her orb and probably take Sonyas orb a swell (depending on how well Sonya plays), doubling her mana regen on lane.

    Yes, towers won't run out of ammo, and because of that you now have to deal some damage to towers while your creeps are there (you don't stay just behind your wave, holding your abilities for next creep wave to kill it quickly or for enemy to jump in for an orb, like you used to), or it's just wasted opportunity. Which puts you into danger of being ganked, or giving enemy an opportunity to push back.

    I see this change as a good change simply because it promotes active gameplay over "well i killed this wave i can fuck off for 30 seconds now, because towers still have ammo and it's better to spend my time elsewhere". Now you don't have this grace period of towers being out of ammo. I've been expecting this change since blizzard nerfed A LOT of heroes who used to drain ammo off structures and "siege" them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  16. #36
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    *Snip*
    The change is definitely interesting. I have actually hard time deciding whether I like it or not, it just seems different.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Tracer, Lili, Kharazim and Samuro flat-out can't. Then there are a ton more heroes for whom stealth-busting with their basics is impractical due to small proiectiles etc
    Doesn't skills like LiLis winds, Sylvanas dagger etc. can hit invisibles now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    and there are more heroes that don't want to waste their skills for a reveal, and immunity to being attacked by Valla after she unloaded her bolters is still there.
    Really, whats the difference between using ability on 5% hp stealthed and unstealthed Greymane? "Hey, don't shoot this Greymane because he's in steath, wait for stealths end and then shoot him. Maybe he won't escape meanwhile."

  18. #38
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Really, whats the difference between using ability on 5% hp stealthed and unstealthed Greymane? "Hey, don't shoot this Greymane because he's in steath, wait for stealths end and then shoot him. Maybe he won't escape meanwhile."
    The difference is if you'll be able to AA him to death, or use your skillshots that would be rather used to stop Rehgars ult with a grenade, or Diablo charging you into the wall with sleep dart... But hey, you've got that Greymane tho!
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    The difference is if you'll be able to AA him to death, or use your skillshots that would be rather used to stop Rehgars ult with a grenade, or Diablo charging you into the wall with sleep dart... But hey, you've got that Greymane tho!
    Yup, because u are the only person in team who can do it or u have 5 Anas in team instead Arthas, Valla, Nazeebo, Uther and Genji.

  20. #40
    Pit Lord
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    We're talking about a talent that has like 4% pickrate.

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