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  1. #21
    The prevailing wisdom among the entertainment industry is that whatever you are producing must be as agreeable as possible. Wow was not created using this paradigm, if wow classic is, it will be a failure.
    Last edited by jakeic; 2017-11-22 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    It should be accessable and playable for everyone. Wether they will enjoy it or not is a different issue.

    I'd say the game should be balanced to have every specc in the game viable in their respectful field. If they don't want elemental shamans to be a thing, remove it as a whole...don't leave it in as some people will spend weeks or months leveling to find out they can't do shit with it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    Cool story bro. Except Nostalrius was what forced Blizzard's hand. People who found the legal way was what landed the infamous quote, "You think you do, but you don't". Which is where you would still be 10 years from now if it was not for these people with no moral obligations.

    Think twice before silly moral rants. If you think Vanilla was obtained immorally, feel free to not play it.
    I don't they forced it, I think they might have put it on the table 5-10 years earlier than expected though as they know there is money to be made from it.

    Legacy servers would always have come at some point, the moment they think the profit is worth it...and I guess they think it's worth it.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    The prevailing wisdom among the entertainment industry is that whatever you are producing must be as agreeable as possible. Wow was not created using this paradigm, if wow classic is, it will be a failure.
    Exactly right...then again... I think they did in fact had different standards 13 years ago to what was agreeable.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeilon View Post
    It should be accessable and playable for everyone. Wether they will enjoy it or not is a different issue.

    I'd say the game should be balanced to have every specc in the game viable in their respectful field. If they don't want elemental shamans to be a thing, remove it as a whole...don't leave it in as some people will spend weeks or months leveling to find out they can't do shit with it.
    Here's the thing, you're a shaman, not an elemental shaman. This philosophy is fairly central to how vanilla played, to remove that is produce a classic wow that has no resemblance to the game it's supposed to be. While I can agree that some classes will be at a disadvantage and should be brought more inline, that any sort of balancing of this nature should only be done sparingly and only after the last patch has been released for a bit, and the tuning should be in the scope of the class vs class and not an attempt to increase spec diversity.

  5. #25
    NO it's MINE FUCK YOU!!!

    /sarcasm

    It's honestly ridiculous the clannish "nobody is allowed to speak unless they agree with me" attitude in some of these threads. Yes of course it's for everyone. If you want a particular approach - tell Blizzard. Try to convince others if you are so inclined. But don't act like nobody else has the right to their own opinion.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #26
    Classic is, and it really, really needs to be said, for Blizzard.

    It's not for the players of vanilla or retail, it's not for the Nostrallius tryhards, it's not even to say they could.

    Classic is for Blizzard alone. Even if it is the literal definition of jerking oneself off.
    There is absolutely no basis for individual rights to firearms or self defense under any contextual interpretation of the second amendment of the United States Constitution. It defines clearly a militia of which is regulated of the people and arms, for the expressed purpose of protection of the free state. Unwillingness to take in even the most basic and whole context of these laws is exactly the road to anarchy.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    The prevailing wisdom among the entertainment industry is that whatever you are producing must be as agreeable as possible. Wow was not created using this paradigm, if wow classic is, it will be a failure.
    WoW was absolutely created using this paradigm, it's just that the standard of agreeable in 2004 was much lower than today precisely because we didn't have over a decade of MMOs to learn from and refine the gameplay and all advance the tech back then.

    I mean shit, back then WoW used to get lambasted as "Everquest for casuals" lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeilon View Post
    I don't they forced it, I think they might have put it on the table 5-10 years earlier than expected though as they know there is money to be made from it.

    Legacy servers would always have come at some point, the moment they think the profit is worth it...and I guess they think it's worth it.
    If Official Legacy came about 5-10 years earlier than expected due to Nostalrius, then they forced Blizzards hand. Nostalrius came out with a backend server that was perhaps 90-95% accurate. Blizzard took notice very fast. The project was never designed to compete with Blizzard, but rather to turn eyes to something that was really happening. People were playing Vanilla, not retail. For free.

    (After Nost shutdown) Blizzard was forced to respond when Nostalrius gave the source to other(s), who then made it Open Source, available to anyone. It was an "OH SHIT" moment at Blizzard HQ. Their hand was forced. 10 years earlier perhaps that what should have been, but what was done, was done.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by VyersReaver View Post
    But Classic is not Vanilla. It literally spells it out for you. Vanilla was not for everyone (mainly because it is shit game to play in 2017, but that's besides the point), on the contrary, Classic should be the better game than Vanilla, and that implies being more available.
    Where is downvote button for this bullshit?
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    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  10. #30
    Bloodsail Admiral TheDeeGee's Avatar
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    Classic is NOT for me anymore.

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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    Here's the thing, you're a shaman, not an elemental shaman. This philosophy is fairly central to how vanilla played, to remove that is produce a classic wow that has no resemblance to the game it's supposed to be. While I can agree that some classes will be at a disadvantage and should be brought more inline, that any sort of balancing of this nature should only be done sparingly and only after the last patch has been released for a bit, and the tuning should be in the scope of the class vs class and not an attempt to increase spec diversity.
    No, I'm pretty sure they had specs back then. You didn't just level up, train abilities and didn't spend talent points. You had builds and those builds meant something, even if they were cookie cutter as fuck which is pretty much exactly what's wrong with it.

    Just going to put it on the table, Vanilla's class design was fucking horrible and clearly was not the driving factor of what made the game popular.
    There is absolutely no basis for individual rights to firearms or self defense under any contextual interpretation of the second amendment of the United States Constitution. It defines clearly a militia of which is regulated of the people and arms, for the expressed purpose of protection of the free state. Unwillingness to take in even the most basic and whole context of these laws is exactly the road to anarchy.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Exactly right...then again... I think they did in fact had different standards 13 years ago to what was agreeable.
    Wow wasn't originally designed to capture 12 million concurrent accounts or to completely take over the Mmorpg market, it was designed to be an mmo in the vein of Everquest set in the Warcraft universe. This is a completely different idea than what drives creation at blizzard currently. I'm not sure how to describe it succinctly, but imagine if blizzard were faced with the choice of making the best game ever or the most popular game ever, which do you think is more desirable?

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    It irks me because we "the purists" asked for vanilla for 10 fucking years. And now that we get it... in comes the QOL freaks pissing on that with their demands.
    It is like this right (and this feels exactly the same to me):
    I have written an entire essay at work promoting a certain way of working that is far more efficient. I have been working on that method for like 6 months now.
    In comes Mrs Bimbo with her awesome tits and body. She then presents the project to the supervisor of my supervisor. Now she was part of my team for 1 month because someone else got sick. She did not ask me if it was alright to tell "the boss of my boss". No she just grabbed the project and acted as if she was the one initiating it. Now the boss of my boss wants her to do job X Y Z... the exact job I wanted. When I tell my supervisor he just shrugs...

    Yes I know the analogy isn't quite correct as being the same. But the feeling remains the same.
    You mean spent 10yrs trolling threads derailing threads sending death threats to youtubers and twitch streamers and any one who disagreed. 10yrs of being complete toxic assholes?

    Yea you will get what you deserve not what you want.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    If Official Legacy came about 5-10 years earlier than expected due to Nostalrius, then they forced Blizzards hand. Nostalrius came out with a backend server that was perhaps 90-95% accurate. Blizzard took notice very fast. The project was never designed to compete with Blizzard, but rather to turn eyes to something that was really happening. People were playing Vanilla, not retail. For free.

    (After Nost shutdown) Blizzard was forced to respond when Nostalrius gave the source to other(s), who then made it Open Source, available to anyone. It was an "OH SHIT" moment at Blizzard HQ. Their hand was forced. 10 years earlier perhaps that what should have been, but what was done, was done.
    Nost had broken classes that didn't even come close to Vanilla with some abilities not working like sunder armor if I recall correct (or whatever threat ability was called). That and also the constant DC's which had 5 to 60 minute rollbacks.

    I get what you mean, but it's not forcing. Blizzard wants to make profit of their own product...that's just common sense. If it was forced they'd open a server on the last patch of Vanilla and be done with it...it costs them nothing, not even support as they wouldn't need to fix shit.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    Wow wasn't originally designed to capture 12 million concurrent accounts or to completely take over the Mmorpg market, it was designed to be an mmo in the vein of Everquest set in the Warcraft universe. This is a completely different idea than what drives creation at blizzard currently. I'm not sure how to describe it succinctly, but imagine if blizzard were faced with the choice of making the best game ever or the most popular game ever, which do you think is more desirable?
    Well if they would go back with the knowledge of today, they would do it the exact same and would probably not implement certain features. I mean the game did spin out of control when Vanilla came. So why meddle with that stuff? Same for the Classic now. They even said they will make it the Vanilla experience and not bring in QOL stuff etc. It comes down to deciding which patch. This is a FAN SERVICE.

    Blizzard will always go for the best game. It is their prime directive. The best game will also become the more popular game.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeilon View Post
    Nost had broken classes that didn't even come close to Vanilla with some abilities not working like sunder armor if I recall correct (or whatever threat ability was called). That and also the constant DC's which had 5 to 60 minute rollbacks.

    I get what you mean, but it's not forcing. Blizzard wants to make profit of their own product...that's just common sense. If it was forced they'd open a server on the last patch of Vanilla and be done with it...it costs them nothing, not even support as they wouldn't need to fix shit.
    Blizzard was working out infrastructure issues for a good while before their announcement, according to interviews. They "found" the lost code and worked out technical difficulties with BattleNet vs old software, sometime between Nostalrius's visit to Blizzard's campus, and up to 2 weeks ago.

    Pls don't go silly on me with this costing Blizzard nothing

    If I understand correctly, much of the code needs to be reformatted to existing tools used by all their current internal teams, including (most importantly!) security.
    Last edited by Vineri; 2017-11-22 at 10:56 AM.

  17. #37
    It is for everyone. It just that at least 90% of those trying it are leaving before level 40.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Storfan's Avatar
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    Everyone who will accept that there will be ZERO changes for the sake of "MUH Quality of casual life".
    “Listen... Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.” – Dennis

  19. #39
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    No, it really isn't.

    Any attempt to reduce the tedious components of the game will drastically reduce the sense of reward which came from getting practically anything done in Classic.

    That sense of accomplishment is one of the major points which still draw people to classic servers.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    Here's the thing, you're a shaman, not an elemental shaman. This philosophy is fairly central to how vanilla played, to remove that is produce a classic wow that has no resemblance to the game it's supposed to be.
    You're saying that fury warriors should be broken?

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