Kel Thuzad [Speculation]

[jakjakjak]

Seeing quilboars on Kul Tiras my mind created next logical chain:

Quilboars > Razorfang Kraul > Necromancy > Scourge > Kel Thuzad

I know its maybe be reaching but what you think about it?

[Moozart]

where is mankrik's wife

[Deleted]

Quilboars > Razorfang Kraul > Necromancy > Scourge > Kel Thuzad > Lich King > Kil'jaeden > Burning legion > Sargeras


Crap. All we did in the legion was for nothing. Illidan you had one job ffs.

[Justpassing]

Damn that's legit reaching. KT is still MIA but your theory is pretty...reaching.

[Steampunkette]

I think the Cult of the Damned is already among us...

Admiral Taylor's Garrison on Draenor was turned into a freakshow of ghosts and horrors by a single Cult of the Damned member. But why in the world would the Cult of the Damned want to attack an alternate-reality/timeline Draenor?

Answer: They didn't. The Cult of the Damned member on Draenor was a Sleeper Agent. Someone who dressed and acted like any other person and got recruited or conscripted to go to Draenor to help fight against the Iron Horde who decided to start making monsters when he realized he probably wouldn't be going back to Azeroth.

The Cult of the Damned is among us, hiding, waiting. But for what?

For Bolvar to step up under Ner'zhul's influence and become the Lich King? He did just re-create the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse after sending the Ebon Blade to attack the Silver Hand.

For Kel'Thuzad to reveal himself? We killed him in Naxxramas, but that which is dead may eternal lie and without his phylactery being destroyed there's always the option for him to come back.

For Sylvanas to enact her plans of conquest? Varimathras did say our Thrones would run red with betrayal, and that we were tricked into believing we gave her power of our own free will...

Shits going to get Deadly. And then Undeadly.

[Drattz]

For Sylvanas to enact her plans of conquest? Varimathras did say our Thrones would run red with betrayal, and that we were tricked into believing we gave her power of our own free will...

I'm going to say the same thing I say when people mention the dagger, or Il'gynoth. Why are you trusting a single word they have to say?

[Steampunkette]

I'm going to say the same thing I say when people mention the dagger, or Il'gynoth. Why are you trusting a single word they have to say?

I listed 3 different possibilities with a similar level of plausibility to all of them and this is your response?

Bleh.

Yeah. He might be lying, because Varimathras is a dreadlord and they're deceptive. But to what end?

Unless they're pathological liars, people lie for reasons. To trick people into acting in a specific way, generally to deflect blame or encourage violence. Sometimes to gain respect, interest, or deference. But there's always a reason for the lie.

What end would a lie about Sylvanas have, while fighting to the death against the heroes of the Alliance? To trick them into fighting their enemies? That... makes no sense. To turn on each other when they return? but how does that benefit the soon to be dead Varimathras? Or his master, Sargeras, who is about to attack the planet within a few hours?

There's no reason for him to lie, except to lie. There's no profit for himself, or his people. It won't stop his enemies or redirect their violence, it won't gain him sympathy or respect, or put a coin in his pocket or a roof over his head.

So why would he lie?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I listed 3 different possibilities with a similar level of plausibility to all of them and this is your response?

Bleh.

Yeah. He might be lying, because Varimathras is a dreadlord and they're deceptive. But to what end?

Unless they're pathological liars, people lie for reasons. To trick people into acting in a specific way, generally to deflect blame or encourage violence. Sometimes to gain respect, interest, or deference. But there's always a reason for the lie.

What end would a lie about Sylvanas have, while fighting to the death against the heroes of the Alliance? To trick them into fighting their enemies? That... makes no sense. To turn on each other when they return? but how does that benefit the soon to be dead Varimathras? Or his master, Sargeras, who is about to attack the planet within a few hours?

There's no reason for him to lie, except to lie. There's no profit for himself, or his people. It won't stop his enemies or redirect their violence, it won't gain him sympathy or respect, or put a coin in his pocket or a roof over his head.

So why would he lie?

To cause general chaos or mislead us.

[Steampunkette]

To cause general chaos or mislead us.

General Chaos is pointless. The Raid Team attacking Antorus is not going to stop what it's doing, go back to Stormwind/Orgrimmar, and start checking for the truth. Even if the Alliance believes he's being honest about the Thrones Running Red with betrayal, the raid team isn't going to fall into disarray arguing about whether to leave or keep fighting against the Legion.

Misleading us is pointless. His dread Master Sargeras is about to resurrect the Titan Pantheon as his personal puppets and win, forever, because he'll have all the power in the universe and crush Azeroth. Why mislead us about Sylvanas's intentions to sneak into power if the planet's about to be destroyed?

Now to be 100% forthright on this, I do believe he's lying just to increase the mad-on everyone has for Sylvanas as a back up "Middle finger of spite from the grave" just in case Sargeras fails. But since it's speculation about necromancers/necromancy I figured I should include all three potential suspects as to who might be behind Taylor's Garrison getting ghosted. World Conquest and such aren't a part of Sylvanas's story that we've been shown, so far.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

General Chaos is pointless. The Raid Team attacking Antorus is not going to stop what it's doing, go back to Stormwind/Orgrimmar, and start checking for the truth. Even if the Alliance believes he's being honest about the Thrones Running Red with betrayal, the raid team isn't going to fall into disarray arguing about whether to leave or keep fighting against the Legion.

Misleading us is pointless. His dread Master Sargeras is about to resurrect the Titan Pantheon as his personal puppets and win, forever, because he'll have all the power in the universe and crush Azeroth. Why mislead us about Sylvanas's intentions to sneak into power if the planet's about to be destroyed?

Now to be 100% forthright on this, I do believe he's lying just to increase the mad-on everyone has for Sylvanas as a back up "Middle finger of spite from the grave" just in case Sargeras fails. But since it's speculation about necromancers/necromancy I figured I should include all three potential suspects as to who might be behind Taylor's Garrison getting ghosted. World Conquest and such aren't a part of Sylvanas's story that we've been shown, so far.

No but even in death what he says could make us distrust Sylvanas even more then we already do. Maybe imply Sylvanas is up to even worse and it may be not nearly as bad as Varimathas puts it.

[Steampunkette]

No but even in death what he says could make us distrust Sylvanas even more then we already do. Maybe imply Sylvanas is up to even worse and it may be not nearly as bad as Varimathas puts it.

But what's the point of distrusting Sylvanas "Even More" when she, and we, are all about to be destroyed by Sargeras and his reborn Pantheon of Titans?

Spite. I think that's all it actually was, just one last "Screw you, Sylvanas!" before he (And she, and we) are destroyed.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

But what's the point of distrusting Sylvanas "Even More" when she, and we, are all about to be destroyed by Sargeras and his reborn Pantheon of Titans?

Spite. I think that's all it actually was, just one last "Screw you, Sylvanas!" before he (And she, and we) are destroyed.

Since we aren't getting destroyed, I'd say it's to cause distrust among our leaders. I doubt Varithmathas cares if we're going to win or lose. He is still a Dread Lord at his core.

[Cryptoriana]

I think the Cult of the Damned is already among us...

Admiral Taylor's Garrison on Draenor was turned into a freakshow of ghosts and horrors by a single Cult of the Damned member. But why in the world would the Cult of the Damned want to attack an alternate-reality/timeline Draenor?

Answer: They didn't. The Cult of the Damned member on Draenor was a Sleeper Agent. Someone who dressed and acted like any other person and got recruited or conscripted to go to Draenor to help fight against the Iron Horde who decided to start making monsters when he realized he probably wouldn't be going back to Azeroth.

The Cult of the Damned is among us, hiding, waiting. But for what?

For Bolvar to step up under Ner'zhul's influence and become the Lich King? He did just re-create the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse after sending the Ebon Blade to attack the Silver Hand.

For Kel'Thuzad to reveal himself? We killed him in Naxxramas, but that which is dead may eternal lie and without his phylactery being destroyed there's always the option for him to come back.

For Sylvanas to enact her plans of conquest? Varimathras did say our Thrones would run red with betrayal, and that we were tricked into believing we gave her power of our own free will...

Shits going to get Deadly. And then Undeadly.

I heard Arthas fused with Ner zhul, and since hes dead so is Ner zhul. So bolvar should be influnced by only the helm not the armor which ner zhul was tied to

[Nuba]

this is so stretched we almost concluded that "half life 3 confirmed"

[Moozart]

this is so stretched we almost concluded that "half life 3 confirmed"

but it HAS been confirmed..

[huth]

Because Old Gods speak truths. Half truths, however. They show specific bits of information that serve their purpose, and twist things to their own narratives. But a fair share of what they show you is true.

The problem generally being that we don't know what or in which context.

[Steampunkette]

Since we aren't getting destroyed, I'd say it's to cause distrust among our leaders. I doubt Varithmathas cares if we're going to win or lose. He is still a Dread Lord at his core.

Varimathras is killed before the end of the raid of Antorus. From his perspective Sargeras is about to destroy Azeroth with the combined power of the Pantheon.

I know we aren't ACTUALLY going to be destroyed, I'm just relating his motivation from his perspective.

I heard Arthas fused with Ner zhul, and since hes dead so is Ner zhul. So bolvar should be influnced by only the helm not the armor which ner zhul was tied to

Ner'zhul's soul was transformed into the Helmet of Domination. Arthas wears the same armor he donned when he became a death knight, it's only the helmet he dons when he approaches the Frozen Throne.

If Ner'zhul is gone, the helmet is powerless since the helmet -is- Ner'zhul, which would mean Bolvar couldn't control or contain the Scourge by wearing it.

[gcsmith]

didn't we finally smash his Phylactery in WOTLK?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

didn't we finally smash his Phylactery in WOTLK?

No not really, it wasn't really mentioned like at all, along with Blizzard being silent about Kel'thuzad as well.

[Project 501D13R]

didn't we finally smash his Phylactery in WOTLK?

afaik, no actually, we got his phylactery as a quest item at the end of level 60 naxx, and the person we turned it into just handed it back to the scourge, at the end of level 80 naxx there was no phylactery drop from KT