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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    You can try to act like you don't understand what I am saying as hard as you can but your straw man sound quite silly.. There is a big difference between someone invading your private property or country in today's world clear cut borders and established diplomatic relations and not being aware of trespassing into the lands of an unfreakingknown civilization in a wild forest in the fantasy world based in ancient times/technology. Even in our history there were protocols to deal with these kind of actions and non of them said first step - attack unsuspecting foreigners on sight if they are cutting down trees on our borders. You scout and try to understand the position/motives of the group, you send a messenger and try to make contact, raise flags, sound horns,exchange words if things go well you send in a diplomat and exchange presents/have a drink to try to establish a diplomatic relations. If things turn hostile or you want to send the message that you want them to turn back, you symbolically "fire a volley" of arrows/spears/javelins or shoot over their bow/or in air in more modern times as a warning and then if all else fails, you battle.
    If you want to put it that way then why shouldn't orcs first send a scout to investigate that the land has an owner or not and then they decide to build a settlement to harvest the land's resources? They are the ones who are new to the land. And you really think Grom would agree to leave even if they negotiated with him? The result would have ended up the same. Sorry but in no way I agree with you in that matter. When some alien beings with an army armed for battle appear in my land and build a base and harvest what is sacred to me, I send my forces to kick them out of the land. If they want something then they can come and negotiate with it but not me.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Dracula View Post
    Theramore wasn't at War when it was bombed into oblivion either. It's what escalated it to a War.
    They weren't at war went they let the armies of the alliance invade the barrens? Wich could have the lead them to orgrimmar but was stopped by the cataclism?
    Nice joke.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Elune-life-nature View Post
    If you want to put it that way then why shouldn't orcs first send a scout to investigate that the land has an owner or not and then they decide to build a settlement to harvest the land's resources? They are the ones who are new to the land. And you really think Grom would agree to leave even if they negotiated with him? The result would have ended up the same. Sorry but in no way I agree with you in that matter. When some alien beings with an army armed for battle appear in my land and build a base and harvest what is sacred to me, I send my forces to kick them out of the land. If they want something then they can come and negotiate with it but not me.
    I don't disagree with you about that. I completely agree what orcs did was wrong but it doesn't justify night elves actions, contrary to what Hollywood movies make you believe, both sides can be wrong. But in this case, orcs had mitigating circumstances, they had just traveled through the plains of durotar with no sign of civilization in sight, every creature they have met were wild and tried to kill them except for the Tauren(which made no mention of the freaking racist Night elves that might kill them on sight if they enter the forest), literally no one knew a night elven civilization lived in those woods and they had no reason to assume they did since every civilization they met both on their planet and azeroth were city dwellers, made it obvious to notice them.

    Night elves on the other hand had 10000 years of knowledge and experience yet they were wild and brash like the "mortal"/inferior races they look down upon. They had the right to protect and defend their lands but we will never know if the whole thing could have been just avoided if they only tried to communicate. I agree with you, with freaking Grom leading the lumbering operation (ironically thrall put him in charge of it so he would stay out of trouble), it could have ended badly either way.. but NEs would have the moral high ground in that case.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    I don't disagree with you about that. I completely agree what orcs did was wrong but it doesn't justify night elves actions, contrary to what Hollywood movies make you believe, both sides can be wrong. But in this case, orcs had mitigating circumstances, they had just traveled through the plains of durotar with no sign of civilization in sight, every creature they have met were wild and tried to kill them except for the Tauren(which made no mention of the freaking racist Night elves that might kill them on sight if they enter the forest), literally no one knew a night elven civilization lived in those woods and they had no reason to assume they did since every civilization they met both on their planet and azeroth were city dwellers, made it obvious to notice them.

    Night elves on the other hand had 10000 years of knowledge and experience yet they were wild and brash like the "mortal"/inferior races they look down upon. They had the right to protect and defend their lands but we will never know if the whole thing could have been just avoided if they only tried to communicate. I agree with you, with freaking Grom leading the lumbering operation (ironically thrall put him in charge of it so he would stay out of trouble), it could have ended badly either way.. but NEs would have the moral high ground in that case.
    Calling Night Elves racist and wild because they wanted to protect their lands is not reasonable for me. When it comes to Alliance they should always be the one to show understanding or else they are racists ... And suddenly World of Warcraft turns to World of Democracycraft.

    There is enough discussion about this and it is not going to have any conclusion. So no point in continuing it.

  5. #325
    Scarab Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamzz View Post
    Just because med'an hasn't appeared ingame yet doesn't make him non-canon. He is still canon whether you like it or not.
    then u missing the part where beside the idea that he 'exist' in canon, everything else isn't
    entire 2nd half of comics were centered about him becoming the guardian, however wow doesn't recognize that, Garona doesn't seem to know she has a son, in both expansions, Cho'gall doesn't refer to him at all, Khadgar took Aetish and pretty much became the unofficial guardian, etc
    So yeah while they didn't say he doesn't exist in lore, they pretty much ignored everything he did, shitting on lore as usual because that literally doesn't make sense, then again this comes from same company that says Velen exists twice but Archimonde is one and same while Sargeras exist also twice
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Which faction captured the living and tested diseases that turned them undead on them?

    Which faction fed on Fel and captured a being of the Light to use it as their battery?

    The Horde were never the good guys. They're just less evil than the worse guys.
    Does this imply the alliance are the good guys?

    You realize both factions have tortured captives, right? I don't see how the first one is anything. Blood Elves used fel as a means to survive. At least the Horde isn't hurting their allies. Gnomes literally blew up their own city and now go back to kill its citizens in a dungeon for their fuck up. Arthas purged their own city and killed his own innocents. Garithos was going to execute soldiers that came back from a battle alive.

    Both sides have done bad things. I just hate the fact that after helping save the world and universe the Horde is seen as the only bad guy as the army of the light strictly joins the alliance. The story telling is just plain bad at this point. There is NO reason for the army of the light to be on the alliance's side. Or the same side as the Void elves.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    So void elves should go in the horde no?
    I mean, Vereesa is ready to kill every blood elves because they used demon magic to survive, ready to kill her sister who actually died fighting the scourge to protect her people, became undead and once free of mind control freeing the lands of the scourge and demons.

    Then alliance welcome night elves who fed from demon magic for the last thousand years, and now she welcome her other sister who feed on void magic for no actual reason.
    Blizz story writer are dumb as fuck.

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    Don't forget that Garrosh told about Theramore on purpose to Baine, so he could warn the alliance. Giving them time to protect civilians, and making a trap for their army.
    If you ignore the part where Sylvanas captured innocent living travelers and tortured them to death with her diseases so that she could find one that killed the living, sure.

    She's fucking evil, of course Alleria should fight her.
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  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartuck View Post
    Can't believe such a bad character like Alleria made it live. Her only reason of existence is to promote and sell Void Elves and that's pretty much it. I was very upset when they pulled Turalyon and Alleria out of Chris Metzen's ass to sellout this story.
    I think Metzen has been retired since 2 or 3 years already, let the guy alone he has nothing to do with this anymore lol

  9. #329
    The odd part is that, out of the three Windrunner sisters, only the most questionable (or straight evil) one is fighting to defend Quel'thalas. I don't know if it's an oversight by Blizzard, or a plain attempt to label the Horde as the "bad guys"; especially when the "good guys" in the current xpac defect en masse to the Alliance.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    then u missing the part where beside the idea that he 'exist' in canon, everything else isn't
    entire 2nd half of comics were centered about him becoming the guardian, however wow doesn't recognize that, Garona doesn't seem to know she has a son, in both expansions, Cho'gall doesn't refer to him at all, Khadgar took Aetish and pretty much became the unofficial guardian, etc
    So yeah while they didn't say he doesn't exist in lore, they pretty much ignored everything he did, shitting on lore as usual because that literally doesn't make sense, then again this comes from same company that says Velen exists twice but Archimonde is one and same while Sargeras exist also twice
    Offical word of god is he exists, and just isn't The Guardian.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Blamblam41 View Post
    But what happens when 95% of your race becomes free will undead corpses?
    95% of the surviving ''high elves'' are blood elves, and they are alive, well, the number is not exact, but it wouldn't be too far off, they are still the citizens of Quel'thalas, they never went away from their home, stood against all odds, rebuilded everything, fought and purged the remains of the Scourge in their lands (even though Ghostlands just like the rest of Quel'thalas is stuck in The Burning Crusade time frame, I'm sure they did), the hostile forest trolls too, and unlike the undead (that a lot of Alliance players think are not the true people of Lordaeron, when they are all the same people and have their free will just like when they were alive-alive, only difference being that they died and resurrected and got rejected by the Alliance), just as I said before, they are truly alive and are probably the race that got the biggest amount of shit when they were in extreme need, even in the Horde, but nothing compared to how many times the Alliance decided they weren't worth anything (otherwise they would't be in the Horde anymore). They are survivors, that's all there is to it, they just joined the Horde, like all the other races of it, to survive, because the Alliance wasn't an option, and the fact that after all of this they still want Silvermoon to achieve the glory of it's past shows that they truly love their homeland and would die with it. Alleria was supposed to really love her land way more than anything else, she was supposed to have the same mentality as Sylvanas had before and after she died, to fight for her land and punish those that dare to mess with it, or die trying, that's the way of the Silvermoon Ranger, so it wouldn't make sense for her to kill all of her people that fought so hard to defend her homeland when she wasn't home just because they had to choose a side she doesn't like for Quel'thalas to survive, even if she REALLY loves Turalyon, she must remain neutral at the very least, and maybe try to fix the relationship between all kinds of High Elves remaining, because they are, indeed, still very few lorewise, killing eachother would be stupid, and she isn't someone to talk about treason.

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