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  1. #1

    The Abyssmal State of the DH Player base

    So I'm not sure if I'm the only one who notices this but it just seems like the DH player base for the most part just doesn't seem to exist. Especially when it comes to the raiders. Even if we are 3%? of the player base we just aren't really vocal at all. We take our whippings from Blizzard and don't make much of a fuss. The official wow DH forum? Dead. This forum right here though active isnt _that active_. Threads last a long long time here. One of the DH discords.. is more like reddit/r/pics or /jokes then a discord discussion about DHs. If you ever go to either one of them you will spend 30 minutes back scrolling through absolute fluff.

    We have a handful .. maybe just a dozen who give feedback on official channels. That's it. To Blizzard it just shows some sort of compliance with whatever they do. So they do whatever the F they want with DH. Often if anyone brings up an important flaw or ideas needed for change it is met with replies from brand new DH players who quite obviously haven't learned the class yet, or they play it only as an alt in LFR, and/or they don't raid at all. The typical noob DH response that they love the class and don't see anything wrong with it. We only heard from those players more when they were wondering where their AOTHG was after playing only 10 minutes a day week after week.

    Earlier in the expansion we used to have more raider discussions and more actual discussion there about the class itself but now its a lot of fluff mostly.

    I think ONE well written post with theory crafting to back it up was on the PTR Feedback forum and that is what got Blizz to change the spec on t21 to 40%. Then things were silent after that. So they just changed it back with no response and without batting an eyelash about it. Though they never actually said it .. it just feels like their response was "FU".. "we must have lost our minds when we listened to that one guy who said that T21 sims way less than T20. That is all." I'm not saying 40% was a fix. Maybe it was little OP but still. So the F what. So are boomkins.

    So we get nerfed hard and thats it. Hardly any outrage. No 300 upvoted posts, no tweets, no nothing. Just jokes on the DH discord. And discussion on what sort of arms spec people are going to play. This is sad.. I'm sad. I feel alone. I know there are a few of you but we are so small. Where are our voices? Why aren't there more of us?

    When mages were facing major nerfs, they cried out in horror with hundreds of posts etc.... We just suffer in silence for the most part. If this is how its going to be..... then DH is always going to be subpar and as ignored as it has been. I think you get my whif of what Im saying... where the F are all of you? Did you really just all re-roll?
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2017-11-24 at 02:11 AM.

  2. #2
    I enjoy DH but I re rolled to warrior after nighthold. Just didn't like the set bonuses coming out and no good changes for the rotation

    Edit: I also hate how much we rely on meta and how are dps drops so low outside of it
    Last edited by Riproarin; 2017-11-24 at 02:15 AM.

  3. #3
    it gets frustrating being energy starved at the beggining of your rotation just because RNG decided to be a bitch

  4. #4
    I rolled a DH as soon as they were released, and I still enjoy playing them...just not as my main anymore, because they just feel like wet noodles... Might just be me doing something wrong, entirely possible, but I felt like I didn't contribute anything over my hunter...

  5. #5
    We ripped our own eyes out, it's just that we don't even register the nerf bat hitting us.

  6. #6
    Blizzard will NOT change their mind, even with a well written post. How do I know? There have been posts about our problems in the past, well written and civil posts and they were flat out ignored. We were told by CM Lore that we were going to get, "Just to clarify: the specs I called out in the original post are those we're planning major rotational/mechanical changes to. " Honestly, it wouldn't bother me if they at least addressed the issue and communicated what's going on.

    40% was too high supposedly (I don't have time for PTR testing) but they pull a knee jerk reaction and dumb it down to 15%. It's exactly the same crap they pulled before the launch of NH. It's clear to me they have no idea how to properly balance us, that or they can but the time required to do this means major changes and they've given up and rolled it into BfA.

    All this being said, I still enjoy playing my DH. I do wish our sustained damage was higher and they would address the issue but sadly I don't see that happening without some form of nerf to our Meta burst damage ability. I'm no longer raiding high end (casual heroic) but my guild had our main DH switch to Rogue.


  7. #7
    So the current state of DH is the fault of the DH player base?
    I'm not buying it.
    We're playing a game, that has multiple classes, that are supposed to be "balanced" between themselves. It's not our job to balance them. It's blizzard's.
    And yes, I'm rerolling to warrior for antorus.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    The problem looks like this: you have Cutting Edge mythic raiders, theorycrafters and the best people explain why we need a change, what doesn't work well, how much of a buff is needed, etc.
    Everyone agrees and calls for the changes.

    In the meantime 15 another threads are spammed by fresh 110 9/9 LFR 96 rating 1:20 W:L DHs that the class needs nerfs in both PvP because ermagerd op burst, op sustain (LOL) and op mobility, ranged interrupt, op. Also only recently broke 900 ilvl and already they can burst for 1 million, no other class can do that (yeah, combine a braindead spec with CD stacking that can almost quarduple your damage and who would've fucking thought you can deal burst damage) and repeatedly call for a nerf of the spec.

    While I'm positive these are mostly trolls who lost to DH sometime ago and levelled one out of spite cause it's easy, i'm also positive that blizzard devs can't read data for shit. Once again we're nerfed just before a new tier opens for our farm performance. If there's one thing I hate is how we have top tier opening burst, and that makes people think we're op (apparently having no sustained damage nor any cleave is a sign of that). Knowing Blizz, nothing will be done until people leave the class in droves (i'm certainly not gonna keep playing DH once i max out legion content and get my final few leggos to complete both specs, I have a warlock ready just in case DH stays shit until that time).

    And once we leave the class, maaaaybe they'll actually look into it and not revert the rework a week before 8.0 hits. Lol.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ufta View Post
    So the current state of DH is the fault of the DH player base?
    I'm not buying it.
    We're playing a game, that has multiple classes, that are supposed to be "balanced" between themselves. It's not our job to balance them. It's blizzard's.
    And yes, I'm rerolling to warrior for antorus.

    It is to a point. If we were more vocal Blizzard might have done more than they have done. In the mage example I gave you they actually got what they wanted. Other classes who have bitched in droves have also gotten responses in the past.

  10. #10
    I find most DH players to be entitled and demanding with unrealistic demands or oversight for the health of the game.

    Probably because the class appeals to a younger audience.

    I still enjoy playing mine and sigh whenever I have to deal with other DH in the community

  11. #11
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I play DH (and every other class). Not much to say about it. It's pretty fun, and I recently switched up talents which changed how I play a surprising amount, so that was cool. /shrug

  12. #12
    Can we just stop this doom, and gloom stuff? You picked a class with 1 DPS spec. Historically there have been ups and downs to these specs, and they don't always have an option to be top DPS. If you don't like that life go play something with 2-3, you will be happier. There has never, and probably will never be, a class with 1 DPS spec that was constantly high on parses. They suffer like every other spec, but don't have the option to swap to the "good" spec for the class at the time. Look at ret, look at shadow, look at WW. They all have these problems too, if you're dedicated to the spec stick with it knowing that this is just what happens.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I find most DH players to be entitled and demanding with unrealistic demands or oversight for the health of the game.

    Probably because the class appeals to a younger audience.

    I still enjoy playing mine and sigh whenever I have to deal with other DH in the community
    I paid 60 dollars for this expansion and 15 dollars a month. God forbid that I'm expecting them to keep their word about Havoc changes, better class balancing in general and expect them to communicate and give context to changes. That's entitled I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    Can we just stop this doom, and gloom stuff? You picked a class with 1 DPS spec. Historically there have been ups and downs to these specs, and they don't always have an option to be top DPS. If you don't like that life go play something with 2-3, you will be happier. There has never, and probably will never be, a class with 1 DPS spec that was constantly high on parses. They suffer like every other spec, but don't have the option to swap to the "good" spec for the class at the time. Look at ret, look at shadow, look at WW. They all have these problems too, if you're dedicated to the spec stick with it knowing that this is just what happens.
    The nature of these forums will only mainly attract people who have concerns and problems, but I don't think people are doom and glooming here. I see valid concerns based on a lack of communication from blizzard about Havoc. "This has happened before" and "other specs have problems" isn't a valid reason to shut down these concerns. People are quite passionate about this spec and want something better out of it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepercat View Post
    I paid 60 dollars for this expansion and 15 dollars a month. God forbid that I'm expecting them to keep their word about Havoc changes, better class balancing in general and expect them to communicate and give context to changes. That's entitled I guess.
    You must be new to WoW. Class changes happen on an expansion basis, not a patch basis. You might see small changes here and there. But generally they save the sweeping changes for the next expac.

    Welcome to the promise train, where each stop is another month of subs. You can get off at any time you like though remember that. Talking with the wallet > moaning on forums.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepercat View Post
    The nature of these forums will only mainly attract people who have concerns and problems, but I don't think people are doom and glooming here. I see valid concerns based on a lack of communication from blizzard about Havoc. "This has happened before" and "other specs have problems" isn't a valid reason to shut down these concerns. People are quite passionate about this spec and want something better out of it. I don't see anything wrong with that.
    It's a design problem that has been around forever. Classes with 1 DPS spec suffer from the regular nerfs/buffs/balance changes every spec gets more than classes with 2-3 DPS options. It's just the nature of the beast, Blizz hasn't and most likely wont ever make it so those 4 specs (Shadow, WW, Ret, Havoc) are constantly in the top 1/3rd of DPS parses. They, like any other individual spec, will have times when they are not very good. Sometimes they'll be great, and most of the time they'll be roughly average.

    It has always been this way, in all likelyhood it will always be this way. That's why I said in my post if you don't like that sometimes your spec just won't be great, swap to a class with 2-3 DPS specs. You'll pretty much always have at least one spec that's doing well. Right now the OP is literally complaining that the DH playerbase needs to complain more, because DH didn't get a buff that was on PTR. If that's not doom and gloom I don't know what is.

  16. #16
    veng is amazing, what you talking about

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparklelord View Post
    veng is amazing, what you talking about
    Try telling that to DH's. They will throw back stats about active mitigation back in your face and then link mythic raid participation kill stats and act like the ground is falling.

    And they even go as far as to undersell stuff like sigil of silence "What does that matter I can silence someone when you die in 2 hits"

    Over it

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    You must be new to WoW. Class changes happen on an expansion basis, not a patch basis. You might see small changes here and there. But generally they save the sweeping changes for the next expac.

    Welcome to the promise train, where each stop is another month of subs. You can get off at any time you like though remember that. Talking with the wallet > moaning on forums.
    You must be new to Legion. Shadow Priset, BM hunter, Frost DK, Ferals and even Havoc all got mechanical changes mid expansion at one point. Nobody is asking for sweeping changes. Blizzard even acknowledge that Havoc was indeed in need for a mechanical changes. And yet they went radio silence.

    I enjoy this game somewhat and will continue to play. That doesn't mean that there aren't any problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    It's a design problem that has been around forever. Classes with 1 DPS spec suffer from the regular nerfs/buffs/balance changes every spec gets more than classes with 2-3 DPS options. It's just the nature of the beast, Blizz hasn't and most likely wont ever make it so those 4 specs (Shadow, WW, Ret, Havoc) are constantly in the top 1/3rd of DPS parses. They, like any other individual spec, will have times when they are not very good. Sometimes they'll be great, and most of the time they'll be roughly average.

    It has always been this way, in all likelyhood it will always be this way. That's why I said in my post if you don't like that sometimes your spec just won't be great, swap to a class with 2-3 DPS specs. You'll pretty much always have at least one spec that's doing well. Right now the OP is literally complaining that the DH playerbase needs to complain more, because DH didn't get a buff that was on PTR. If that's not doom and gloom I don't know what is.
    That doesn't mean that those balancing practices are good.

    OP does have a point. Classes/specs that are very vocal seem to get at least some communication from blizzard.
    Last edited by Creepercat; 2017-11-25 at 04:59 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepercat View Post
    That doesn't mean that those balancing practice is good.

    OP does have a point. Classes/specs that are very vocal seem to get at least some communication from blizzard.
    Not always, it's confirmation bias. Outlaw rogues complained long and hard about their spec, and it's still bottom tier. I think most of them have given up at this point, and are just hoping for a rework. Brewmasters have gotten a lot of communication relatively to the other tank specs, despite being the smallest community of tanks, and it's not like they spam forums or anything.

    The truth is Blizzard just balances what they personally think needs balanced, well thought out critique of a spec can go completely ignored in favor of some minor band-aids for under-performing specs.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    Not always, it's confirmation bias. Outlaw rogues complained long and hard about their spec, and it's still bottom tier. I think most of them have given up at this point, and are just hoping for a rework. Brewmasters have gotten a lot of communication relatively to the other tank specs, despite being the smallest community of tanks, and it's not like they spam forums or anything.

    The truth is Blizzard just balances what they personally think needs balanced, well thought out critique of a spec can go completely ignored in favor of some minor band-aids for under-performing specs.
    The back and forth communication the brewmaster community had with the devs at one point did make me jelly I'm not going to lie.

    The way they just single out specs at a whim like they draw numbers out of the hat is frustrating but I dont feel the need to moan about it constantly on forums like these.

    If you really want to be listened to by the people that matter then you need to start spamming their twitter handle.

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