Hunter has gone too far from the original concept

[Tomana]

Do you guys like the direction they have taken hunter?

Vanilla hunters were released in a "meh, cba to finish this state". First they had a focus bar with a craptastic design, then a mana bar that was pretty much useless in a sustained way.
Also as someone said back in BC on the forums, "today I put the gun to my head and pulled the trigger, but it said 'sorry that target is too close'".

[Deleted]

Introducing? They just made us like every other class in the game. Deadzone was stupid.

What part of my previous message did you not understand? No hunters are not like every other class. Every other class has a counter, hunter has non in PVP.

[SL1200]

What part of my previous message did you not understand? No hunters are not like every other class. Every other class has a counter, hunter has non in PVP.

Sounds like whining.

[Deleted]

From my understanding, the majority of people who have always been Hunters hates the current state of hunters. Incl. myself.
Will see what the future brings

[Bepples]

Because introducing a ranged melee class was dumb as hell in PVP. Melee could be kited, ranged could be interrupted, hunters...? Nothing, they could shotgun you right in the face. Great design!

As evidence by the total dominance of Hunters in PvP, right? Oh, wait.

Hunters have typically had lower throughput and survivability than the others as a drawback for our mobility. Our self-healing has pretty much always been terrible and our damage is nowhere near the likes of Warlocks or Mages, for example. We can still be competitive due to our mobility, but the fact that Hunters aren't completely dominating PvP (not even close) should tell you that we still have drawbacks, and they're better than the god-awful deadzoning mechanic.

[Deleted]

Every other class has a counter, hunter has non in PVP.

what the fuck.

[Deleted]

As evidence by the total dominance of Hunters in PvP, right? Oh, wait.

Hunters have typically had lower throughput and survivability than the others as a drawback for our mobility. Our self-healing has pretty much always been terrible and our damage is nowhere near the likes of Warlocks or Mages, for example. We can still be competitive due to our mobility, but the fact that Hunters aren't completely dominating PvP (not even close) should tell you that we still have drawbacks, and they're better than the god-awful deadzoning mechanic.

Exactly, they have to be squshy and do subpar damage, because there's still 0 counter to hunters. It's just a terrible class design. Just like in MOP, hunters were unstoppable and dominated big time and insanely OP, once fixed they were pretty garbo.

[Bepples]

Exactly, they have to be squshy and do subpar damage, because there's still 0 counter to hunters. It's just a terrible class design. Just like in MOP, hunters were unstoppable and dominated big time and insanely OP, once fixed they were pretty garbo.

No it isn't. That's just the nature of specialising in mobility. It's actually very good class design because they are reasonable drawbacks and you still get to enjoy the full breadth of the class in all situations. The old system meant taking away your ranged toolkit when in close range and requiring you to have a melee statstick on at all times. THAT was terrible class design.

And no, Hunters have not been garbage at PvP for two expansions. Even now, MM is pretty good. BM is terrible, but that's as of 7.2.5 and the overcompensating nerfs for us getting 2 charges baseline. Your argument now relies on Hunters being either insanely OP or pathetically bad at all times so you're just pushing that narrative whether it's true or not (it isn't).

Also, we have melee specs in the game right now who are for all intents and purposes unkiteable due to an almost unlimited array of gap closers and control abilities while also having exceptional self-healing and damage. You're out of your mind if you think its Hunters who are broken. Yeah, we have the highest versatility of any class (that's the whole fucking selling point of the class; it would be mundane and boring to have literally EVERY ranged spec being the glass-cannon caster), but there are specs in the game which have close to that with NONE of our drawbacks. You're selling us a non-issue.

[Nefarious Tea]

All the people crying about how Survival should go back to ranged amuse me. None of them would even be playing Survival because MM sims better so they follow that blindly.

[Mirishka]

I LOVED my Hunter in vanilla.
The whole melee, deadzone, ranged mechanic was really fun.
I loved wearing these huge 2h Agility swords. Or dualwielding some other swords.
When a Warrior or Rogue attacked me and I dodged, I loved these huge Mongoose Bites.
I loved having to Wing Clip them and get out of deadzone range so I could hit my ranged abilites.
Sure, in raids you never went melee, but in PvP the melee and deadzone aspects were a huge part of the class.

Today, what is this class?
Survival is this mash your buttons melee spec. While the rotation is fun enough, it's purely melee, no ranged abilities at all.
MM has become this sad no pet and "keep up your Voulnerable debuff" spec. How did it come to this?
BM is OK but it is literally a 3 button dps rotation... come on.

I at least had some fun with the old Survival spec with the Explosive Shot, Kill Shot and Black Arrow with an actual pet on my side.

Also, what happened to the 2 ability you got in the game, Serpent Strike??? Not enough of the class fantasy?

I think the class is at an all time low in Legion.

Just give me an Ranged Melee hybrid like it used to be. Even if it is just one of the specs...

Do you guys like the direction they have taken hunter?

You lost any chance at validity when you referred to the dead zone mechanic as fun. That shit was terrible and died the death it deserved.

[MiiiMiii]

You lost any chance at validity when you referred to the dead zone mechanic as fun. That shit was terrible and died the death it deserved.

by having a weakness you are stronger in other areas.
If you have a pet, you yourself have to do less damage.
If you have bad mobility in PvP, when you get close, you get more damage.
If you have good mobility, you have worse survivability.
If you are tanky you do less damage.
If you are squishy you do more damage.

And here is the point:
If you have a deadzone, you do great damage outside the deadzone.

It's called balancing.

[Kyranna]

I don't like modern hunters, but I'll be damed if I want the deadzone back. Never mention it again.
Cata era was a good time to be a hunter, but it was good till wod in the end. Legion is... urgh!

[Deleted]

There seem to be a misconeption about "deadzone".

It was not meant as a melee range where you couldn't use your ranged attacks.

The deadzone actually was a small area where you could neither use melee nor ranged attacks, leaving the hunter unable to attack. That was the deadzone and it was outside of PvP never a mechanique that had any impact at all. Mobs were allways trying to get into melee range anyway.

So what people generally want is, melee attacks back that are used when ranged are locked. This is something one can argue about but the deadzone was just a cluncy mechanique that had more the character of a bug or oversight.

[Mirishka]

by having a weakness you are stronger in other areas.
If you have a pet, you yourself have to do less damage.
If you have bad mobility in PvP, when you get close, you get more damage.
If you have good mobility, you have worse survivability.
If you are tanky you do less damage.
If you are squishy you do more damage.

And here is the point:
If you have a deadzone, you do great damage outside the deadzone.

It's called balancing.

No, its called a stupid mechanic. The fact that Hunters have been just fine without a dead zone is proof of that, and it isn't coming back. Deal with it.

[MiiiMiii]

No, its called a stupid mechanic. The fact that Hunters have been just fine without it is proof of that, and it isn't coming back. Deal with it.

I think it is called a cool mechanic. I think we are allowed to disagree on this.

[threads]

All the people crying about how Survival should go back to ranged amuse me. None of them would even be playing Survival because MM sims better so they follow that blindly.

yea except BM is the most played atm not MM.

[endersblade]

I miss killing other Hunters's pets in PvP, and having the Hunter rage about it. Especially in BGs, where you could do it over and over again, negating all the 'connection' they made to the pet, even to the point where the pet actually LEAVES the Hunter lol. While that was extremely rare, it was still possible.

Oh, I'm sorry, we were talking about how bad Hunters have become. Rabble rabble, Melee Survival, rabble rabble. Or something.

[Wilfred]

BM is OK but it is literally a 3 button dps rotation... come on.

Not that point, but..
BM hunters are not 3 button dps rotation. ???

[threads]

Not that point, but..
BM hunters are not 3 button dps rotation. ???

it's a meme. MM is basically 3 buttons too

[Bepples]

by having a weakness you are stronger in other areas.
If you have a pet, you yourself have to do less damage.
If you have bad mobility in PvP, when you get close, you get more damage.
If you have good mobility, you have worse survivability.
If you are tanky you do less damage.
If you are squishy you do more damage.

And here is the point:
If you have a deadzone, you do great damage outside the deadzone.

It's called balancing.

Except Hunters weren't exactly outdoing the casters, and they could cast in melee. We were the only class in the game who could be neutralised by positioning so drastically, which was ironic since Hunters were meant to be all about adaptability. Now, we have high mobility and versatility with the trade-off of lower damage and survivability. It works. It's fun. It's balanced. It fits the class identity better.

I think it is called a cool mechanic. I think we are allowed to disagree on this.

Yeah. I'm also allowed to call your opinion stupid and demand that you stop trying to force such a terrible mechanic that no one else wants to return to the game. You can argue that it was fun not being able to use ranged abilities in melee all you want, but to me it's about as believable as someone saying they find being stunned or CCed fun. It's a shame that you support ranged Survival over melee Survival only to then double down on such an embarrassingly terrible mistake of class design from which everyone else has moved on.