Blizzard Needs to Define Boundaries of Competitive Play

[MonsieuRoberts]

Stop interacting with the general population and your problems with matchmaking and lack of cohesive competitiveness will disappear.

Either do that or quit, because it's not changing. Sadly.

[Gandrake]

Would be nice if you could make a good post without mentioning content creators who have nothing to do with this.

so pretend i didn't say stylosa sheesh

i watched an interview with fuey500 and he was saying players in the game just didn't want him there. if it takes a ton of reports to ban someone and the top 5% of players don't even want to play with him and he's already gotten suspended again, how exactly do you expect this to end?

I don't really get the controversy about the one tricks being banned. If you want to play whatever, go quick play, that is what it is there for. If you want to play comp, you better be doing anything to win. The fact that onetricks and trolls get banned now actually might bring me back to the game.

while fuey500 was suspended again, the second suspension was overturned and lifted within 40 minutes. he still doesn't know what the actual reason he was suspended for the first time was.

this is by no means a recent a change that is sweeping the ladder. it's really only been concerning the highly competitive 5% of the game's population.

I have a problem with banning one tricks. On one hand I don't like someone playing sym or torb 24/7 but on the other hand, How do you define what a good choice is? You will kill your game by banning people for playing a class they like to play.

Like I said, at lower ELO I don't think it's huge. It's annoying, but it's not the end of the world. at lower ELOs, i think junkrat one tricks may be a problem just because of the discrepancy in consistency when compared to higher skill heroes in an ELO where mechanical ability is lacking and disingenuously inflating the perception of player skill

[Fluffyfluff]

People just cant take losing that's all I'm hearing and feel the need to blame someone other than themselves.

[Jessicka]

So like I said, it depends and that, for the most part, one tricking is very rude but most prominently an issue at high ELO.

It's a high elo problem, and it's the exact same problem that got Avoid Player removed. People want players who they feel are holding them back removed from the pool of players they're put with, and reporting players and getting them banned does this. It's the ultimate in system abuse. It's not that those players aren't good enough, as others keep trying to allude to - these are players who have earned their spot at their rank over the seasons, same at any level really. They just don't want that 'chance' that these players will weaken their chances.

At lower levels it's not a big deal, because you're not going to be put with them as often, the pool of players is vastly bigger, and the 'acceptable' pool of heroes is slightly larger. If you're not with them as much, it won't bother you as often.

But, we can't have the system mob-ruled by a system of meta-slavery that dictates what people play on punishment of suspension. That's outrageous to contemplate. I said earlier, poor matches dictate your SR, we don't need suspensions on top of lost SR as punishment for a bad game.

[ro9ue]

I legit don't understand why anyone would play competitive unless they are actually serious on winning. I don't care and never played it. QP is just fine.

[Jessicka]

I legit don't understand why anyone would play competitive unless they are actually serious on winning. I don't care and never played it. QP is just fine.

It's not that they're not serious about winning, they just want to win with the hero or heroes they like to play and are comfortable with. These big name one tricks all have pretty strong positive win rates.

It's crazy, people complain that there are Mercy players up there with negative win rates, then lose their shit as well when players with 55-60% win rates on heroes they don't like are up there too...

[Deleted]

It's not that they're not serious about winning, they just want to win with the hero or heroes they like to play and are comfortable with. These big name one tricks all have pretty strong positive win rates.

It's crazy, people complain that there are Mercy players up there with negative win rates, then lose their shit as well when players with 55-60% win rates on heroes they don't like are up there too...

The problem with champs like sym and torb is if someone picks them the entire team is then forced to play around them, and if they do badly its basically a 5v6 and very frustrating to play. There are lots of situations those picks are really bad, mercy is never bad.

But this all come from blizzard trying to straddle the fence, they wanna keep their casual fan base and still act like a big time competitive game, those two things dont mix easily.

[DeadmanWalking]

It's a high elo problem, and it's the exact same problem that got Avoid Player removed. People want players who they feel are holding them back removed from the pool of players they're put with, and reporting players and getting them banned does this. It's the ultimate in system abuse. It's not that those players aren't good enough, as others keep trying to allude to - these are players who have earned their spot at their rank over the seasons, same at any level really. They just don't want that 'chance' that these players will weaken their chances.

At lower levels it's not a big deal, because you're not going to be put with them as often, the pool of players is vastly bigger, and the 'acceptable' pool of heroes is slightly larger. If you're not with them as much, it won't bother you as often.

But, we can't have the system mob-ruled by a system of meta-slavery that dictates what people play on punishment of suspension. That's outrageous to contemplate. I said earlier, poor matches dictate your SR, we don't need suspensions on top of lost SR as punishment for a bad game.

It happens at all levels, at low ratings you get pharah devastating the enemy who refuse to swap off Reaper, Sym, Junkrat and you get 6 dps with no tanks or healers. The lower you go the worse it gets because at least in high ranks the one tricks understand the fundamentals like don’t run in by yourself and hide from diva ults.

[Jessicka]

It happens at all levels, at low ratings you get pharah devastating the enemy who refuse to swap off Reaper, Sym, Junkrat and you get 6 dps with no tanks or healers. The lower you go the worse it gets because at least in high ranks the one tricks understand the fundamentals like don’t run in by yourself and hide from diva ults.

But that Pharah is going to be kept down there for the same reason when they refuse to swap when the enemy do have McCree and 76. The system itself is providing the 'punishment'. There's no need for an extra layer of 'let's gang up and get this guy banned'. Yet, that is literally what you're asking for.

[DeadmanWalking]

But that Pharah is going to be kept down there for the same reason when they refuse to swap when the enemy do have McCree and 76. The system itself is providing the 'punishment'. There's no need for an extra layer of 'let's gang up and get this guy banned'. Yet, that is literally what you're asking for.

Im not asking for anything, just stating that one tricks are a problem at all levels of play. The refusal to swap even when hard countered and farmed. Also low SR have notoriously bad aim and target priority and that is why she gets better play at low ratings than high ratings.

[Gandrake]

It's a high elo problem, and it's the exact same problem that got Avoid Player removed. People want players who they feel are holding them back removed from the pool of players they're put with, and reporting players and getting them banned does this. It's the ultimate in system abuse. It's not that those players aren't good enough, as others keep trying to allude to - these are players who have earned their spot at their rank over the seasons, same at any level really. They just don't want that 'chance' that these players will weaken their chances.

Honestly I really have to argue that they haven't earned their rank. I mean, think about it.

You force a team to work around you or it's a throw. You don't have to say anything to say it because your profile says it all. You've come into the game less committed than anyone else. You are the most dependent. The least flexible. The least adaptable. The weakest link. Your team doesn't need you - you need them.

When I see a Torbjorn or Symmetra one trick up high, "earned" isn't the word I'd use to describe the acquisition of their rank knowing they have played their hero in undesirable circumstances and that it was a poor choice. If anything, it's their teammates that deserve the credit. Because if they all adopted the same mentality, it would have been a loss.

Additionally, this game does not pit you against your equals. It pits you against a few of your equals. everyone else is noobs.

What ranking do you think these players would be at if they were truly playing against a full team of their equals? That's the thing - that's what gets people. Not only do you come into the match as the weakest player and tell everyone else what to do, but you're also literally rolling the dice and hoping that the enemy team is uncoordinated and too stupid to hit you where it hurts.

But, we can't have the system mob-ruled by a system of meta-slavery that dictates what people play on punishment of suspension.That's outrageous to contemplate. I said earlier, poor matches dictate your SR, we don't need suspensions on top of lost SR as punishment for a bad game.

Well, suspending them from competitive definitely saves Blizzard a lot of time and money so they don't have to work on a new feature.

But honestly I think the future of competitive will be a wow-esque group finder feature where they relax the psychotic constraints and idiotic punishments they have put into the game that have made stack groups so unpopular. Something is going to have to give.

[Twen]

Gotta say the long-ass "Junkrat such a bad low elo hero"-essay was pretty funny to read while thinking back to world championships where he saw a pretty nice amount of playtime.

[Graeham]

I just don't bother with competitive. Even quick play is something I have to be in the mood for since it's often stricken by the same issues. Deathmatch, seasonal events and custom game modes are what keep me invested in the game. I think a lot of people need to take a step back and just stop caring about competitive play. To get anywhere of note you need to invest a serious amount of time and effort - and you also need a fair bit of natural skill, too. Some people may even be perfectly capable of rising through the ranks but have no interest in doing so because other games take up their time. I'm always surprised by people who only seem to ever play Overwatch and nothing else.

[Ninjavitis]

I wouldn't mind seeing the removal of exp or have it severely reduced for competitive play. There is no incentive to play well. Whether it's using teamwork or playing heroes that contribute to a good comp. Win or loss, you get more experience from a competitive match than you do from a quickplay match, so why bother playing well? It won't get rid of trolls or bad players entirely, but it will certainly reduce the number when they stop getting rewarded for poor behavior. Competitive is about winning, not fooling around.

[Grishnaar]

PLease don't diss Junkrat. I'm only around 2250, but I regularly own at that lvl (ofc, depends which map and what part of the map, but he's viable on more parts than people want to admit).

That said, Solo que is kinda hellish, I'd agree. Had a long break, now back for a month or a bit more and I've solo qued 95%+ of the time. I was around 19xx at some point, but got back and never really played that much.

I'd say having a group of 3-4 is the optimal way of queing for a healthy mix of shananigans and tryharding.

[Twen]

I wouldn't mind seeing the removal of exp or have it severely reduced for competitive play. There is no incentive to play well. Whether it's using teamwork or playing heroes that contribute to a good comp. Win or loss, you get more experience from a competitive match than you do from a quickplay match, so why bother playing well? It won't get rid of trolls or bad players entirely, but it will certainly reduce the number when they stop getting rewarded for poor behavior. Competitive is about winning, not fooling around.

Wait, people play comp for exp? There's only one reason to care about maximizing exp that I can see, which is holiday event loot boxes, and that's only temporary. (Personally I still stick to QP even then.) Am I missing something here...

[Ninjavitis]

Wait, people play comp for exp? There's only one reason to care about maximizing exp that I can see, which is holiday event loot boxes, and that's only temporary. (Personally I still stick to QP even then.) Am I missing something here...

Why else would bad players queue up for competitive? I'm talking about players who deliberately pick something that they don't ever play, proceed to do terrible and then refuse to listen when the rest of the team offers advice as far as choosing something something better or how to improve with what they chose. I could almost bet money on if a match will be a loss when you get 4 players that instalock hanzo, genji, tracer and widow. Tracer and genji, probably the 2 most agile/mobile heros in the game I see dead far more often than any other hero. And it's not even a rare occurrence. Maybe I'm just a super electro-magnet and the matchmaking system only feeds me these players, but I just call em as I see em.

[Tziva]

A balance has to be found between dis-incentivizing picking Comp over QP for people who don't really give a shit about playing competitively, but you can't do it so harsh that people don't want to play Comp at all. Removing (rather than expanding) Golden Gun points might do that. Removing XP entirely almost surely would.

I play Comp because I like Comp. I think it is a superior game mode with QP because usually people try harder to work together, to use decent comps, and to not fuck around. I don't play because of the XP or because of the gun points, but part of the drive for playing is the carrot on the stick. If you remove all rewards for Comp besides the joy of playing (which we all know is not always a joy even if overall we like the game), very few people are going to play it. I don't know if I would, and even if I did, I wouldn't look forward to the insane queue times that would result.

I'm all for finding ways to encourage people to stick to the venue that is most appropriate for what they want out of the game (whether that's ranking up or trying new heroes or experimenting with weird comps), but the way to do that is not make particular game modes punishing to select.

[Twen]

Why else would bad players queue up for competitive? I'm talking about players who deliberately pick something that they don't ever play, proceed to do terrible and then refuse to listen when the rest of the team offers advice as far as choosing something something better or how to improve with what they chose. I could almost bet money on if a match will be a loss when you get 4 players that instalock hanzo, genji, tracer and widow. Tracer and genji, probably the 2 most agile/mobile heros in the game I see dead far more often than any other hero. And it's not even a rare occurrence. Maybe I'm just a super electro-magnet and the matchmaking system only feeds me these players, but I just call em as I see em.

Trolls, stubborn, children, don't speak english, etc, I don't know. My point was that exp in this game is nearly meaningless, why go out of your way just for that? (Edit: As you still get it from other game modes, just not quite as much.) They might actually be wanting the golden guns and those can be gotten just by playing, even if you don't climb the ranks, and removing exp wouldn't alleviate that.

[Ninjavitis]

Trolls, stubborn, children, don't speak english, etc, I don't know. My point was that exp in this game is nearly meaningless, why go out of your way just for that? (Edit: As you still get it from other game modes, just not quite as much.) They might actually be wanting the golden guns and those can be gotten just by playing, even if you don't climb the ranks, and removing exp wouldn't alleviate that.

It's not meaningless. Plenty of folks still want to unlock stuff they don't have without having to buy boxes. And since competitive gives more for simply showing up, win or lose, players show up and do whatever. Be it trolling, stubborn, etc. If it's in regards to getting points for golden weapon skins, then maybe they should increase what you get for a win, decrease or remove points for a loss, and lower end of season rewards. Or remove it altogether or make them obtainable some other way. I'm in the same boat as Tziva. I play competitive because I enjoy working as a team, and I play it to win. The extra experience and competitive points I barely even consider a bonus.