Thank God for no changes to mythic 20man in BfA.

[Raintola]

I don't raid so its a waste of resource.

good for you if you enjoy repeating the same 10 dungeons for the entirety of the expansion

Literally any game.

Good for you if you enjoy repeating the same PvP scenarios for the entirety of ever (or whatever other pretentious "hurr durr my subjective experience matters more than yours" argument you have).

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It was easier to coordinate 10, but the actual encounters were almost always more difficult on 10, as well ;]

They should have gone for 15, the decision to make it 20 has killed an untold number of casual heroic (~mythic) guilds, the bread and butter of the raiding scene pretty much. Look at stats from MoP through WoD and now the piss poor state of mythic raiding guilds in Legion and tell me I'm wrong.

Got actual objective evidence that 10 was almost always more difficult?

[RoKPaNda]

Too bad mythic raiding will be even less worth the effort next expansion because of the removal of tier and mythic+ titanforging.

Listen. You don't raid Mythic for the loot. We raid Mythic because we enjoy the challenge. If Mythic+ gear (and to an infinitely lesser extent the TF lottery from other content.) ruins the Mythic raiding experience for you, you shouldn't be raiding Mythic anyway. Raid Mythic because you enjoy it, not because you want to be the most specialest of snowflakes. Whether they make it more or less rewarding the Mythic raiding population isn't going to change. They could probably reward us with just transmogs and we'd still do it. We're not going anywhere, no other MMO has anything close to WoW's PvE.

/facepalm... and they are the #2, #3 and #4 MMO's for a reason....

And it has nothing to do with raid size.

[sykoex]

And it has nothing to do with raid size.

Good point.

[Yoshimiko]

Then tell them to level new char and boost them or they can just buy 2 tokens and transfer for free.

But question is why would you be the one to pay their transfer?

Or if you don't want to lead a guild then join one.

Because if you won't, someone else will. I've been approached by a few guilds over the years offering to pay for a transfer if I'd raid with them- after either meeting in a random group or friends of friends. High level mythic raiders are desperate for good players.

The hardest part of running content shouldn't be keeping enough people. It should be the damn content.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Can all the people still crying over heroic ( mythic) 10 man going the way of the dodo stop holding on to hope now? This will be the third expansion now without it. And I'm glad too since balancing around 10m and 25m sucked and it also sucked how lazy 10man people got the same rewards as 25m despite being way easier to coordinate 10 people.

It is actually going to be worse in the long run. Blizzard is moving more and more towards down playing raids and up playing mythic plus. Mostly because people like the OP want it so exclusive that its pretty much smoked out the style of end game. Removal of tier sets was the first big step. Mythic plus will pretty much be equal gearing as anything you can get in raids. Fewer and fewer people are going to raid. More and more attention will be going to mythic plus. Blizzard can make money off it because its actually decently enjoyable to watch. It isn't filled to the brim with no lifers that only care about them and them alone getting to see the content. So 10 was easier than 25? Well 5 will be easier than 25 and 10. In a lot of cases you can pug it as well.

Raiding is on its way out. I give it this expansion and the next until end game is pretty much totally dominated by mythic plus. Raiding will just be used to tell the story of the game and satisify those that refuse to let go of how it used to be.. sadly.. and I do say sadly.. because I love raiding. But people like the OP brought this upon the raiding community.

[adamzz]

Too bad mythic raiding will be even less worth the effort next expansion because of the removal of tier and mythic+ titanforging.

It will be more worth the effort because that will be the only way to get high ilvl azerite gear since they can't titanforge.

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Literally any game.

Good for you if you enjoy repeating the same PvP scenarios for the entirety of ever (or whatever other pretentious "hurr durr my subjective experience matters more than yours" argument you have).

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Got actual objective evidence that 10 was almost always more difficult?

From personal experience in Cataclysm 10man were harder on some fights while 25man were harder in others. 10man were harder on more encounters than 25man simply because one dead person in 10man affected the raid a lot more than one dead in 25man.

If no one died ever the difficulty was mostly the same with the exception of some mechanics favoring more people and others favoring less people.

I raided both 10man and 25man in top3 guilds on Outland-EU back then, so I have something to back up my opinions.

We usually ran 2 healers and on some encounters were 3 healers, if one Healer died in a 2heal fight it was much harder to recoup than if one Healer died in a 25man raid where you had 4-5 healers. Same with DPS really. If you lose almost a 6th of your raid DPS it hurts yoy a lot more than if you lose a 19th of your DPS.

[delus]

I think they should keep 20 man format for the first couple of months to allow the world firsters some prestige and give a select elite to beat it on the hardest difficulty but when they typically roll in the first round of nerfs, they should set the raids to flex. I think it's a good balance.

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It is actually going to be worse in the long run. Blizzard is moving more and more towards down playing raids and up playing mythic plus. Mostly because people like the OP want it so exclusive that its pretty much smoked out the style of end game. Removal of tier sets was the first big step. Mythic plus will pretty much be equal gearing as anything you can get in raids. Fewer and fewer people are going to raid. More and more attention will be going to mythic plus. Blizzard can make money off it because its actually decently enjoyable to watch. It isn't filled to the brim with no lifers that only care about them and them alone getting to see the content. So 10 was easier than 25? Well 5 will be easier than 25 and 10. In a lot of cases you can pug it as well.

Raiding is on its way out. I give it this expansion and the next until end game is pretty much totally dominated by mythic plus. Raiding will just be used to tell the story of the game and satisify those that refuse to let go of how it used to be.. sadly.. and I do say sadly.. because I love raiding. But people like the OP brought this upon the raiding community.

Sadly I must agree with your assessment. I don't raid mythic because I don't want to build up a team only to end up benching some people. However, skill wise we are in the awful place where we clear the raid fairly quickly and have nothing left to do raidwise.

[Hotsforyou]

Yet, 20 Man fixed Mythic is #1 on my list for the main reason of probably not re-subbing. Bring back the 10M format. So tired of the recruitment boss being our biggest challenge. We would have a very solid 10M if only it existed.

[Saverem]

I would like to see a small flex system for mythic raiding. Like +/- 5 people flex. This would be pretty nice for accommodating core raiders who sometimes can't make it due to RL issues (personal/work stuff).

So having it be like 20-25, 15-20, or even 18-23 raiders. Can't count how many times we've had to cancel our M raid because we were missing 2 core raiders for whatever reason. It's very annoying and our guild just isn't pro enough to have "benched" people willing to just sit there hoping for a raid spot.