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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazersblade View Post
    So just to be clear, are we still supposed to use CoF?
    Yes, you do if yours is high enough itemlevel (910+). I honestly think Archim could update the guide and just start of with this in literally the first line of text.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Method sat dps warriors on Coven and Aggramar

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html

    https://www.wowbis.net/wow-dps-ranking/

    First one puts us at the top, the other one puts us at the bottom, which one is right?
    I've never even heard of that second website, and considering it looks it was created by the same people who advertise in strip malls, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it has just about as much effort put into it as well.

    Just a few problems I could find in the few moments I could stand to look at that eyesore:
    1. The Fury profile uses Gorshalach's Legacy, a crit ring, 6p tier, no pantheon trinkets, and no legendaries.
    2. The Arms profile uses Gorshalach's Legacy, a crit neck, a crit belt, crit bracers, no pantheon trinkets, and no legendaries.
    3. The DPS rankings say they're based on "real logs" and "simulations", but don't link to any data whatsoever.
    4. The stack ranking it uses aren't even reflect actual statistics on WarcraftLogs.

    Regarding SimCraft's stack rankings; there are a number of reasons you shouldn't take it at complete face value, but any and all analytics aside, the most important reason it won't match up with current logs is because their profiles use BiS gear, at ilevel 970, with ilevel 1000 Pantheon trinkets, empowerments, and legendaries, which nobody has. This is done to project statistical growth over the course and by the end of the tier, not to tell players what they should be playing on progression, as that's largely dependent on encounter mechanics anyway.

    If you look at actual logs, Fury, and most other specs that aren't WW or Warlock, has a range. There are some good fights where it's above Arms and most other specs, and there are some bad fights, where it only middles or even falls short. Considering the course of Legion, this appears to be the best tier for Fury and Arms balance, leaving players more readily able to either change on a fight-by-fight basis, or simply play what they prefer.

  3. #143
    Regarding 4P T21 and no CoF..

    Is a bloodbath build really better then inner rage without CoF? What about pre-execute phase dps only?
    Holding BB so it aligns with every BC cycle seems like a pretty low %usage of the talent but on the other hand if you dont it starts desynching. Looking to simcraft 730-03 action list it seems to me to imply(could be wrong here) that one holds BB for BC..

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by mimoma View Post
    Regarding 4P T21 and no CoF..

    Is a bloodbath build really better then inner rage without CoF? What about pre-execute phase dps only?
    Holding BB so it aligns with every BC cycle seems like a pretty low %usage of the talent but on the other hand if you dont it starts desynching. Looking to simcraft 730-03 action list it seems to me to imply(could be wrong here) that one holds BB for BC..
    I have BC/BB macro'd together. I believe the guide says to hold BB for BC.

    Softbottom <Game Over>
    Proudmoore

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    I have BC/BB macro'd together. I believe the guide says to hold BB for BC.
    The guide (under cooldown section) unfortunately says:
    "Macro Bloodbath into Battle Cry when using Convergence of Fates."

    While that doesnt neccesarily imply you dont do it when not using CoF, it kinda made me wonder.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by mimoma View Post
    The guide (under cooldown section) unfortunately says:
    "Macro Bloodbath into Battle Cry when using Convergence of Fates."

    While that doesnt neccesarily imply you dont do it when not using CoF, it kinda made me wonder.
    Good catch; I didn't even notice that. I am still using COF with it though. Probably a question for Arch & Co.

    Softbottom <Game Over>
    Proudmoore

  7. #147
    can some1 explain why valajar is BiS? thanks

  8. #148
    Rampage crits = more rage = more enrage/more rampages. It's most of all of the things you want, now with a a 2/4 set bonus that makes rampage hit like a truck. But like a blood covered truck, with razor blades...the size of mini trucks. So when it hits you, you basically die, but then bleed a lot of your own blood with more blood because the truck brought it's own blood to the bloodbath.

    It does things you want to let you do more things you want, with more blood.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by mimoma View Post
    The guide (under cooldown section) unfortunately says:
    "Macro Bloodbath into Battle Cry when using Convergence of Fates."

    While that doesnt neccesarily imply you dont do it when not using CoF, it kinda made me wonder.
    Just macro them together regardless. Even without CoF, you can't use Bloodbath twice without delaying the next Battle Cry to make them sync again. This is fine, if you have a good enough eye for timers to ensure you don't lose an overall Battle Cry, but I wouldn't recommend it.

    I've some updates planned for the guide which will be pushed sometime in the next day or two (there'll be an announcement), which will clarify this and other issues, especially WRT the recent changes.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Vycaus View Post
    Rampage crits = more rage = more enrage/more rampages. It's most of all of the things you want, now with a a 2/4 set bonus that makes rampage hit like a truck. But like a blood covered truck, with razor blades...the size of mini trucks. So when it hits you, you basically die, but then bleed a lot of your own blood with more blood because the truck brought it's own blood to the bloodbath.

    It does things you want to let you do more things you want, with more blood.
    Another point of view would be this :-)
    Perhaps the question was rather why has it relatively speaking become better then the helmet. (Tier slots are interchangable, statwise the tier legs/helmet are very close - any meaningful difference is not due to tier here)

    Possibly this is because of the new set bonuses + blood bath putting even more emphasis on damage done during battle cry.
    The legs are strictly speaking superior to the helm during 100% crit window when it comes to rage generation, and hence might allow for another rampage during this window. Which is proportionally stronger now, with the rampage set bonuses and bloodbath build, then it was with T20 IR build.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by mimoma View Post
    Another point of view would be this :-)
    Perhaps the question was rather why has it relatively speaking become better then the helmet. (Tier slots are interchangable, statwise the tier legs/helmet are very close - any meaningful difference is not due to tier here)

    Possibly this is because of the new set bonuses + blood bath putting even more emphasis on damage done during battle cry.
    The legs are strictly speaking superior to the helm during 100% crit window when it comes to rage generation, and hence might allow for another rampage during this window. Which is proportionally stronger now, with the rampage set bonuses and bloodbath build, then it was with T20 IR build.
    Correct, but the simpler answer is simply because the legs generate more rage specifically during Battle Cry, which translates into a higher chance of additional Rampages, which better synergizes with the tier bonuses.

    In practice, the difference between Legs and Helm is very minor, so you'll most often use whichever one provides better overall itemization - strong epic hat = legs, strong epic legs = hat.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    Method sat dps warriors on Coven and Aggramar

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html

    https://www.wowbis.net/wow-dps-ranking/

    First one puts us at the top, the other one puts us at the bottom, which one is right?
    Duh. Coven is a possibly even worse melee fight than Mistress, and Aggramar has an absolute crapton of raid damage, so they 5 healed it and the only melee DPS that could apply were rogues (obviously), the pally with his million defensive CDs, the DH with leech/immunity and the DK who can AMS shit.

    Same reason why Exorsus used 5 rogues. It's not a DPS problem, it's a survivability problem that Rogues bypass. I got memories of BRF just looking at these setups.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Duh. Coven is a possibly even worse melee fight than Mistress, and Aggramar has an absolute crapton of raid damage, so they 5 healed it and the only melee DPS that could apply were rogues (obviously), the pally with his million defensive CDs, the DH with leech/immunity and the DK who can AMS shit.

    Same reason why Exorsus used 5 rogues. It's not a DPS problem, it's a survivability problem that Rogues bypass. I got memories of BRF just looking at these setups.
    It is really funny that, outside of gimmicks like multi-dot encounters, progression raiding has largely moved from "DPS racing" with whatever class is strong at the moment, to a "defensive race" which stacks classes which take the least damage in order to make up the damage by dropping healers.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It is really funny that, outside of gimmicks like multi-dot encounters, progression raiding has largely moved from "DPS racing" with whatever class is strong at the moment, to a "defensive race" which stacks classes which take the least damage in order to make up the damage by dropping healers.
    Yeah, and it's also funny how some people insist that WoW is all about them parses today and that utility doesn't matter. They should look at Mythic raiding and high level M+ harder.

  15. #155
    COF nerfed, 4p T21 nerfed, only to get like 300 more strength on COF, WTF Blizzard

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstg View Post
    COF nerfed, 4p T21 nerfed, only to get like 300 more strength on COF, WTF Blizzard
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    I posted this on the Discord last night:

    Archi pointed out that the CoF change (4->3) wasn't made on the PTR but the 4pc change was, so it likely was just something they were testing internally that transferred over to the PTR build. I wouldn't be too worried, it doesn't even function properly: you can literally just click off the Outrage buff, BC+Rampage, and get the full effect of your 4pc.
    1 2

  17. #157
    How are our opener suppose to be with the 4 set? Should we wait until we reach enough rage to hit rampage and then use BC+BB -> ramp?

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Apacho View Post
    How are our opener suppose to be with the 4 set? Should we wait until we reach enough rage to hit rampage and then use BC+BB -> ramp?
    Why would you wait if you use Reckless Abandon anyway? It generates 100 rage for Frothing to proc and have enough rage for Rampage. Rampage will be your first GCD this way (maybe after Charge, if you count that), and I believe that it starts Enrage before any Rampage hits, so your buffed Rampage will still benefit from it, without delaying the burst (and putting it on CD right away for you to be able to benefit from CoF/OC).
    Last edited by VyersReaver; 2017-12-08 at 06:30 AM.

  19. #159
    I honestly wish CoF never existed
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Anyway stop being such an ass fucktard.
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivium666 View Post
    Would you kindly go fuck yourself?

  20. #160
    How's Forgefiend for AoE, is it good compared Moonglaives, and if it is, there some kind of WA for it to track mine count and stuff. (still don't have it just trying to see if it's worth coining for)

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