Tier 21 7.3.2 Fury Guide & FAQ

[l10f]

have you tried using bracers and/or furious charge? Or you can just go prot

[Jastall]

It depends on which opera you get. Westfall Story is fairly easy so long as you dodge, as is Wikket if you obey mechanics. The Beauty and the Beast one is the hardest by a fair margin, the broom is a total pain in the butt and you can take a lot of damage from the pot and the final boss. Run Carnage so that you have a more front-loaded burst, execute isn't very important.

When I solo Mythics I just put on either Prydaz or bracers along with the pants. A bit less DPS for far more survivability is a good trade-off.

[Deleted]

War machine didn't work for me this week on high command 0% uptime on any adds. Bug or intended ? (europe)

[Seramore]

War Machine is bugged on that fight and Mythic Vari (as well as multiple other instances, sounds like it doesn't work properly on adds specifically summoned from bosses themselves), hopefully gonna be fixed in the patch tomorrow.

[Ewanar]

Question,

For Argus, and the buffs during phase 1:

If we are using the Pantheon trinket, I am assuming we want the Crit Mastery buff correct?
My rationale is, any procs of the Pantheon trinket while under the Haste Vers buff, will cause Haste to be our primary stat instead of Mastery.

Or, is the better stat weight combination of Haste & Vers, outweigh the temporary buff to crit?
Thoughts?

[mstg]

It depends on which opera you get. Westfall Story is fairly easy so long as you dodge, as is Wikket if you obey mechanics. The Beauty and the Beast one is the hardest by a fair margin, the broom is a total pain in the butt and you can take a lot of damage from the pot and the final boss. Run Carnage so that you have a more front-loaded burst, execute isn't very important.

When I solo Mythics I just put on either Prydaz or bracers along with the pants. A bit less DPS for far more survivability is a good trade-off.

Ok thanks, I will try using bracers and Prydaz together, and run carnage and furious charge. What about Midnight? Is it just like on heroic where I save CDs for when Huntman comes down and just dodge stuff?

[Jastall]

Ok thanks, I will try using bracers and Prydaz together, and run carnage and furious charge. What about Midnight? Is it just like on heroic where I save CDs for when Huntman comes down and just dodge stuff?

Yeah, just bear with it on Midnight (the only real source of damage is the debuff which you can easily eat with survivability leggies) and save your offensive CDs. When the huntsman comes out, blow him up with everything. I don't know how geared you are, but if you have Antorus normal+ gear you should be able to burst him down before he uses Shared Suffering.
@Ewanar; I had my best parse using haste/versa, but that might just be coincidence as I only did it once when I accidentaly picked up the wrong orb. On paper you're better off with crit/mastery, but you kinda need to have a good, meaty BC with 3-4 stacks to make it really worthwhile so its performance may have variance that Haste/Versa does not.

[The Cheat]

Whirlwind seems to be reducing all relevant cooldowns with Odyn's Champion by 2 seconds instead of 1. Seems unintended, but I'd guess this probably doesn't affect the ST rotation. I did however use it to great effect on Mythic Archimonde to get my BC window faster to beat the Source cast.

[Archimtiros]

Whirlwind seems to be reducing all relevant cooldowns with Odyn's Champion by 2 seconds instead of 1. Seems unintended, but I'd guess this probably doesn't affect the ST rotation. I did however use it to great effect on Mythic Archimonde to get my BC window faster to beat the Source cast.

It's been a common interaction since launch, and no, doesn't affect the ST rotation.

- - - Updated - - -

Question,

For Argus, and the buffs during phase 1:

If we are using the Pantheon trinket, I am assuming we want the Crit Mastery buff correct?
My rationale is, any procs of the Pantheon trinket while under the Haste Vers buff, will cause Haste to be our primary stat instead of Mastery.

Or, is the better stat weight combination of Haste & Vers, outweigh the temporary buff to crit?
Thoughts?

I had my best parse using haste/versa, but that might just be coincidence as I only did it once when I accidentaly picked up the wrong orb. On paper you're better off with crit/mastery, but you kinda need to have a good, meaty BC with 3-4 stacks to make it really worthwhile so its performance may have variance that Haste/Versa does not.

Crit/Mastery is not better, on paper or otherwise.

Mastery may be a slightly better stat than Haste or Verse, but Crit is a far worse stat than any of the others.

[Bacon6966]

If I get 4 piece T21 and have Soul/Valarjar, should I be using it? Running sims and it's the combo that comes out on bottom every time. As of now it's telling me to run Ceann/Soul along with 4 piece T21.

[mstg]

If I get 4 piece T21 and have Soul/Valarjar, should I be using it? Running sims and it's the combo that comes out on bottom every time. As of now it's telling me to run Ceann/Soul along with 4 piece T21.

Helm and Soul should never beat Pants and Soul, if execute phase is very short then maybe Helm and Pants can beat it

[Immortalnite]

Helm and Soul should never beat Pants and Soul, if execute phase is very short then maybe Helm and Pants can beat it

That isn't true. It depends on gear, that is why we sim. For me, the lego helm and soul ring sim better too (with 4set t21 in the cape, shoulder, hands and chest slots). That is because I have some 965 haste/mastery pants with a gem socket from a M+ chest and my best non lego helm is only 945 haste/verse. The pants offer better burst since it gens more rage with BC. The Helm will offer more consistent rage gains over time, so they can even out some. It is all dependent on the other gear you have.

[Deleted]

Simming and understanding stats is not my strong point, but I'm trying. It's always a learning process for me so I'd really appreciate some feedback.

Every time I compare haste to mastery haste always comes out ahead. From small things like changing all my enchants on raidbots to mastery instead of haste/changing all my gems to mastery/a mix of both, or to larger things like getting an new item that's heavier on mastery but that seems like it'll be an upgrade over my old item with more haste, the haste item seems to always come out ahead.

Various guides describe the choice to gem or enchant haste vs mastery depends on 'what is currently performing better'. If I'm totally honest I'm not really sure what that means. If it relates to simming your own character to see which stat is better, well, haste always wins.

-------------------------------

Last night these sims looked different with a larger gap between the two necks. I've written this much so far so I'm going to continue with the post despite not seeing as much of a difference as I did previously. Hopefully I can still learn something.

I don't have a lot of examples to show you but let's take this fairly straightforward comparison between 2 necks of the same ilvl, one heavy on mastery and one heavy on haste. I had hoped the mastery neck would be a convinving win over the haste neck as my mastery in my ring/legs set isn't as high as I'd like at 59%.

1. Haste vs Mastery neck with Legs/Helm Leggo's
2. Haste vs Mastery neck with Legs/Ring Leggo's


3. Whenever someone mentions simming AoE there are often replies saying it's not a good idea to sim AoE or that it just doesn't work. I don't know about all of that. However, I've come to understand that Mastery is perhaps more valuable in AoE than haste. With that said, why is the neck with more mastery performing worse than the haste neck?

An assumed 'AoE sim' with my aoe gear. 5 bosses, 1 min.

4. I remembered another example of haste beating mastery. Despite the much lower ilvl and the crit, the haste boots, even when gemmed to mastery, come out ahead over the BiS boots that have mastery.

935 haste/crit boots with gem VS 945 haste/mastery boots

In short I'm not sure why haste is always out-performing mastery, especially on that aoe sim. Most Warriors I see have a lot less haste than me. I have 38% in my helm/legs set and 35% in my ring/legs set. Unless I'm misunderstanding how they work, I'm not going below a breakpoint of haste equipping the higher mastery neck. If I was I could understand why the haste is needed.

Thanks for any help as to why haste is always ahead and any other things you might be be able to address from things that standout to you n the above.

[potis]

In short I'm not sure why haste is always out-performing mastery, especially on that aoe sim. Most Warriors I see have a lot less haste than me. I have 38% in my helm/legs set and 35% in my ring/legs set. Unless I'm misunderstanding how they work, I'm not going below a breakpoint of haste equipping the higher mastery neck. If I was I could understand why the haste is needed.

Thanks for any help as to why haste is always ahead and any other things you might be be able to address from things that standout to you n the above.

T21 and talents etc is all focused around Rampage.

More haste, faster rage regeneration, more Rampages.

More rampages, more enrage uptime, more damage, more Rampages, more Pant procs cause of critical, more rage, more damage.

Mastery was above haste in NH for that very reason, with Enrage being at ~6 seconds instead of 4, Haste was devalued cause you didnt need as much to upkeep it.

OR, someone messed with the simulation? which i doubt anyone but Archi would ;p

Also, you are talking about margin of error % differences, its more likely that you are overlooking things.

Its pretty much said at the first page, overall Haste = Mastery=Versatility with T21 at this gear level, with Haste becoming slightly stronger if you wear Ceann instead of Valarjar.

At the same time, how are your relics? Is Unirivaled 7/7 with what other traits?

Did a quick checking myself and at 28% Haste i get Mastery = Versat >Haste in my gear level of ~960.

[Archimtiros]

Various guides describe the choice to gem or enchant haste vs mastery depends on 'what is currently performing better'. If I'm totally honest I'm not really sure what that means. If it relates to simming your own character to see which stat is better, well, haste always wins.

I dunno what "various guides" you're talking about. The only guides with anything close to credibility on the net are mine, and they all say roughly the same thing:

• Haste tends to be higher with Helm.
• Mastery tends to be higher with Ring.

Those sound like two very simple rules, but as the guide explains, it never is that simple. Many stats, especially Haste and Crit, aren't linear, which means their value will fluctuate over time.

The reason you're getting Haste higher right now, with both gear sets, is because you've got a lot of Haste. As you push beyond 33.33%, Rampage begins to be reduced by Haste, which means the stat is no longer being (slightly) devalued. Just because you see it high now, however, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

Simming individual pieces of gear, like you've done above, is the best way to determine what is best right now, but it's not indicative of long-term trends, and can become misleading.

Simming five sequential gear changes, each time you resulting in the one stat being higher, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best combination after that point. Likewise, simming two individual gear changes is typically the best way to decide between two pieces of gear, but that doesn't always mean that it's a common or recurring trend either.

Lastly, what gear you have available will always dictate what gear you use, and how your stats will look. If you happen to have a lot of WF Haste gear, your Haste is going to be higher than the sample gear sets used to determine stat scaling, giving you a different result. That doesn't mean that one set of results is "more right" or wrong than the other, they simply have different variables. No matter what, as the guide says, you still want both Haste and Mastery.

3. Whenever someone mentions simming AoE there are often replies saying it's not a good idea to sim AoE or that it just doesn't work. I don't know about all of that. However, I've come to understand that Mastery is perhaps more valuable in AoE than haste. With that said, why is the neck with more mastery performing worse than the haste neck?

Mastery is more valuable on burst AoE (ie: add waves), because the damage is concentrated during a short period of time. In simple terms: adding 20% Haste to get one more weaker WW isn't worth as much as 20% Mastery increasing your more powerful Rampage and OF damage.

A 5 target sim doesn't consider this, it doesn't have waves of adds, just 5 constant targets for 5 straight minutes. In this case, Haste would be more powerful, because your damage is not concentrated, and because your Enrage uptime would drop significantly due to cleave. Regardless, it's also a wildly unrealistic situation, which is why people say that style of sim isn't a good idea.

TLDR: Read the guide!

[Jastall]

At this point I kind of consider the two stats nearly equal for all intents and purposes. Which is better for me seems to change on an almost daily basis, and based on exact fight length and exact fight parameters, and they're always within a very small margin of each other. I put some more focus on Mastery (IE enchants) but don't seek it at the cost of Haste.

[Darkith]

Why is Mark of the Hidden Satyr enchant used over Mark of the Trained Soldier? Is it more dps that the 600 mastery from Trained soldier?

[l10f]

Why is Mark of the Hidden Satyr enchant used over Mark of the Trained Soldier? Is it more dps that the 600 mastery from Trained soldier?

For me Satyr sims slightly higher ST than Trained Soldier, but I use Trained Soldier anyway because of the gains in any non-ST situation. You should probably sim yourself.

[Seramore]

For me Satyr sims slightly higher ST than Trained Soldier, but I use Trained Soldier anyway because of the gains in any non-ST situation. You should probably sim yourself.

You're looking at a ~10k DPS loss and the effectiveness of Trained Soldier on fights in Antorus doesn't outweigh the effectiveness of Satyr on fights in Antorus. It's better to either have a second neck piece with Trained Soldier, or just bite the bullet and always use Hidden Satyr. You're basically handicapping yourself on fights where your damage would be more impactful to use an enchant that works better on easy and/or unimportant fights.

[Deleted]

Has anyone done sims with new racials?