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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Yes, Plate gear with Agility is pretty horrendous. You can live in denial if you want to though.
    Don't know about denial, but i still prefer random stats on gear. Not every piece can be optimal, and that leaves something for players to think too. Besides, you still get lots of armor and some avoidance and crit rate by wearing plate with agi.

    Oh, btw, shadow damage on a shield is my personal favorite. It has no use for any of the classes in the game.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Yes, Plate gear with Agility is pretty horrendous. You can live in denial if you want to though.
    Actually, agility on plate is pretty okay. It provides a lot of useful stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Millyraynge View Post
    Especially in pre-raid preparation this sucks a lot . A lot of blues from dungeons are also very powerful even compared to MC/BWL equip and sometimes BiS until then. My favorit example is Badge of Justice from the last boss in BRD, the worst and most time consuming shit show in wow history .... compared with the vanilla loot system...
    Oh no, there is MUCH worse in BRD from this boss : the epic hammer
    Badge of Justice is actually not that bad. The worst part is that it's so good you're nearly guaranteed to have two other guys who wants it

  3. #363
    Grand Marshal Hottage mrgummage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Only warriors were actually able to tank anything more than easier dungeons, so that narrows things down...and there are already caps written down for others to min/max their stats and find the 'best pieces' to achieve the requirements. The internet exists ya know.
    I tanked Zul'Gurub pretty convincingly on my paladin... as Retribution.

    Besides the vanilla stats are even easier than now:

    Example for Retribution paladin:
    Get 314 weapon skill in whichever weapon you're equipping.
    Get +7% melee hit chance.
    Get at least 25% critical strike chance.
    Pile on the strength.

    Every other stat was just irrelevant UI junk which could be ignored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Actually, agility on plate is pretty okay. It provides a lot of useful stats.
    Agility on plate provided only one thing as DPS: critical strike chance. For tanks it provided a very negligible amount of dodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Badge of Justice is actually not that bad. The worst part is that it's so good you're nearly guaranteed to have two other guys who wants it
    Hand of Justice was godly for sword-specced Arms warriors, Retribution paladins and Enhancement shamans due to the infinite looping proc chances.
    I was still using mine well into the middle of The Burning Crusade leveling.
    Last edited by mrgummage; 2017-12-06 at 09:59 AM.
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  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

    Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?
    There was no balancing at all it was Defence to cap, then get hit 8% to stop taunt resists, Stam to survive and the rest is just bonus fluff stats except for resist fights where you would get Defence to cap and stack resists.

  5. #365
    I think the hardest thing for people who haven’t played WoW before WotLK will be moving around and having to play the game instead of clicking menu buttons and afking through lfr.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Only warriors were actually able to tank anything more than easier dungeons, so that narrows things down...and there are already caps written down for others to min/max their stats and find the 'best pieces' to achieve the requirements. The internet exists ya know.
    Completely wrong. Feral druids were viable as tanks all the way up to UBRS, and in UBRS they were fine off tanks. Some Ferals even main tanked in raids. Not progression obviously, but yeah, you are wrong.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

    Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?
    Ah, I don't think you understand that vanilla was retail, DUDE it wasn't some elite invite only club. I think what you mean is "casual" players.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgummage View Post


    Agility on plate provided only one thing as DPS: critical strike chance. For tanks it provided a very negligible amount of dodge.
    1 point of Agility provided 0.05% crit and dodge, as well as 2 armor. That means 20 Agility was 1% crit, 1% dodge and 40 armor, and it scaled with Blessing of Kings. So it was a really good stat for Warriors.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chaelexi View Post
    There was no balancing at all it was Defence to cap, then get hit 8% to stop taunt resists, Stam to survive and the rest is just bonus fluff stats except for resist fights where you would get Defence to cap and stack resists.
    Could not get 8% hit and defcapped at the same time until almost full Tier 3, and 8% hit would not prevent taunt from being resisted since it was reliant on spell hit which Warriors normally couldn't get, and it was impossible to be defcapped and have a lot of resist at the same time, it was a choice between one or the other.
    You won't find an expanded version of my avatar here.

  9. #369
    It's not about being complicated or not. Although for sure there was more to pay attention to gearing wise.

    It's about diversity of choices and trying to allow players a way to find novel combinations of gear for certain fights or different upgrade paths.

  10. #370
    There was more diversity in stats, but honestly you didn't have to understand or even truly care about min maxing to be in bleeding edge progression. If you could read your tooltips and make correlations with cause and effect, you could get by just fine.

    I'm saying that with having MT'd each raid as it was when it was current, without ever having the BiS. Most of the time opting to try items that went against the conventional wisdom.

    The skinny: stats weren't hard to understand, only people who cared about knowing the exact math behind gear optimization then, were really the only ones who cared about it (progression raids weren't packed full of number nerds) and most of those number crunchers got carried anyway. They couldn't calculate how their backpeddling was detrimental.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    God I hope "retailers" doesn't catch on

    Clearly you haven't been hearing about people's main complaint with Legion? Legendaries and RNG. The problem is people would get an item that's higher ilvl but the stats are crap, itemization is one of the biggest complaints so that already contradicts your last statement.

    Also stats weren't complicated at all. Don't get me wrong, I preferred it to the watered down version we have now, but don't overhype it when it's really the same thing just bloated. Classes might have 1 or 2 thresholds to hit whereas back then you had 3 or 4. It was annoying playing enhancement and having to max out spell hit instead of regular hit, but part of me misses it as well.
    To late, I like it. I am a retailing classic fanboy.
    Now that we are on this topic I would like to add this as a tittle when classic with sprinkles is released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    AHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Hold on..
    AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    Vanilla stats were never difficult. Poorly itemised so a bit more effort, sure. But never difficult. You could tell with relative ease if something was better for you.

    Also, is "retailers" now the official term for people playing live servers? What do we call those that currently play on private servers, "thieves"?
    Away, retailing thieve.
    Another great tittle for my off farming days.
    Chief Warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the Thirteen Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the undead, and the mayor of a little village up the coast. Very scenic during spring time. You should visit sometime

  12. #372
    I love how the term 'retailers' has become a thing XD

    Oh how we love to label each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Klling a new born is not much morally different than a late term abortion. Should be avoided, but it's not like it is an actual person yet.

  13. #373
    The Insane Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    I think the hardest thing for people who haven’t played WoW before WotLK will be moving around and having to play the game instead of clicking menu buttons and afking through lfr.
    *Looks at your delusions*
    *Looks at the current world where people are out playing, running dungeons, questing, professions, achievements, collections etc etc and where the old "raid or die!"-gameplay has been thrown out with the trash!*

    Man, I do not envy your inability to spot the forest for all them pesty trees!

    Also, since people still seem to suffer from illusions of grandure when it comes to the topic of "what it took" to get to see bosses, as in the ONLY raid bosses, go down in Classic:



    Players today might min-max more, but it was most definitely not a requirement back when max level people with time and will to spend said time was in short supply.
    Last edited by Rorcanna; 2017-12-08 at 01:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    How miserable is your life to be posting on a fansite for a game that you hate/hate the ideals of?
    My bet on how many months Classic will last before players start realizing that it's 14 year old content that won't ever get new development: 5 months

  14. #374
    Immortal UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legendix187- View Post
    Away, retailing thieve.
    Another great tittle for my off farming days.
    Now come up with a title that makes actual sense.
    Sometimes updated...

  15. #375
    Read this five times before I figured out what the OP meant by "retailers".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?
    Yes, especially for Walmart and Costco, but probably other retailers would greatly benefit too from this vanilla business.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    I think the hardest thing for people who haven’t played WoW before WotLK will be moving around and having to play the game instead of clicking menu buttons and afking through lfr.
    and thats exackly the reason why its gonna fail

    because besides few no lifers who never moved out from their parents basement (or attic - you should know who im pointing at) nobody give any f... about old outdated game.

    cant wait to throw "haha told you so"

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Now come up with a title that makes actual sense.
    Lord of the dance
    Chief Warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the Thirteen Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the undead, and the mayor of a little village up the coast. Very scenic during spring time. You should visit sometime

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