Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #41
    I think you are overly exaggerating the complexity of Vanilla stats.

  2. #42
    Yeah, grasping caps or "more is better" is really hard.

  3. #43
    They are probably more complicated now due to how classes can scale with certain stats in new tiers with different Leggy's, and also with traits it's hard to gauge which relic is more valuable.
    However, now you just plot your character into one of the many internet resources and all the work is done for you, this is the real difference. In Classic things like Normalization of instant abilities made higher DPS weapons a better choice, but still it wasn't that straight forward. Knowing just how valuable your Hit chance beyond the soft cap for a DW class wasn't always easy to figure out, calculating which rank to set you're healing spells too based on your mana regen wasn't something average MC raider would be thinking too indepth about. It's not just about needing to know, if you love the game you probably want to know all this stuff.

  4. #44
    Banned SensationalBanana's Avatar
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    May 2010
    The Banana box, located in Sweden
    Players today min-max down to the tiniest percentage for stats.

    Vanilla stats are not complicated by any stretch.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Gendif View Post
    Mitigation was an important part of classic tanking. You really had to remove crushing blows from the attack table before you could do any raid tanking. There’s a detailed write up on the Nostralius forum a about how complex managing your bear as a ta I could be.
    Yea I got the steps here

    1. Delete bear
    2. Level warrior

  6. #46
    The most difficult part about vanilla stats was that you couldn't see how much of it you had anywhere on the UI (you saw % instead of a rating though, so it was easy to just do the tally yourself). Hit (and in late TBC expertise) cap was a thing until very recently, so the only extra thing was getting def capped and uncrushable for tanks. Though I'm not sure if the whole uncrushability wasn't a thing only for pala tanks in TBC)

  7. #47
    Stats were far more complicated in later expansions than classic. You had very little control over these stats and most of them were just simple percents. So 2 percent is great than 1 etc. It gets way more complicated in wrath with armor own, hit and exp, and all the gems and soft caps. Classic is on par with wod or legion in terms of stats imo, especially considering how half the gear in the game has nothing but primarys.
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  8. #48
    Scarab Lord Selastan's Avatar
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    May 2010
    I'm curious, if ACTUAL Vanilla players could do it, without playing WoW before, why would today's players not be able to? Sure, it may be easier now, but some experience with the game is preferable to none, and Vanilla players got the job done.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Haibara View Post
    "etc" after listing them all doesn't serve much purpose
    Well... Could still add chance to hit, chance to crit, attack speed, weapon damage and armor value.

  10. #50
    Immortal UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by kraid View Post
    We should call them thieves, is just as dumb as retailer XD
    No, no, "retailers" is definitely still the dumber option. Incredibly so...
    Sometimes updated...

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Also, is "retailers" now the official term for people playing live servers? What do we call those that currently play on private servers, "thieves"?
    What about people who played the original, non-private server Vanilla, AND still play the current live version of the game? Am I still a "retailer"? :O

    E: I just figured it out! The only way I can be called a retailer if I played the original game (and still play live now), is because the OP has never played the retail Vanilla, only private servers. Huzzah, he's a wrath-baby or something who didn't get to experience the real Vanilla! We've found out why he's attempting to insult others!
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-11-30 at 02:57 PM.

  12. #52
    A lot of stat weren't actually really available until TBC (dodge, parry, block, block percentage...) as the means to change them were either "none", "only through talent" or at best "pretty rare", so it's a bit misleading.

    That being said, Vanilla had a lot of details that were, yes, quite obscure. Now, to be fair, half of it was because they were simply not documented at all, and the other half was because they required to know the intricacies of the system to be understood (one-roll and two-rolls attack types, for example ? Who could even understand the concept and its implications without spending a ton of time analyzing the logs ?).

    Though I must admit, when I see the amount of retards who put the entire difference between current WoW and Vanilla on "bad itemization", I think the OP might have a point, despite being an obvious troll.

  13. #53
    Another thread, another person confusing inconvenience with difficulty.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    I'm curious, if ACTUAL Vanilla players could do it, without playing WoW before, why would today's players not be able to? Sure, it may be easier now, but some experience with the game is preferable to none, and Vanilla players got the job done.
    Troll answer : because if they are dumb enough to play current WoW, they obviously lack the brainpower to understand Classic.

    Serious answer : obviously, they can. Same as Vanilla players weren't dumb noob that only learned to play in WotLK, current retailers (despite the best efforts of so many posters in these very forums to prove the opposite) aren't somehow degenerate mutants lacking the brainpower to understand things. The real difference is that the current players have probably forgotten (or never experienced) the countless semi-hidden mechanics that they would need to take into account, and are in for a surprise when they start to theorycraft Classic - but that's just about a time of (re)acquiring habits.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Was going to say, getting defense capped and stacking Stam, armor and any kind of block rating/value was the general go to. Though you still had people stupidly advocating for parry/dodge stack 'specs' all the way to WotLK and Cata.
    I smell someone who mindlessly copied EJ without ever bothering to understand the actual explanations behind their reasonings and the context in which they were made.
    Last edited by Akka; 2017-11-30 at 03:02 PM.

  15. #55
    Also, let's not forget that it was the way the stat system worked that made all tanks useless except for warrior.

  16. #56
    Pandaren Monk Serenais's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
    Czech Republic
    Slapping on the highest ilvl item is a sure way to hell. If you tank with damage increase trinkets or a pure crit neckpiece without it being absolutely necessary, just because they are your highest ilvl items, you do not belong to a raid and need to learn to math with stat priorities. Similar for agility/strength items if you are a healer. Etc.
    Just because retail has fewer stats and saner itemisation doesn't mean a piece of higher ilvl is always invariably superior to another one with better stat distribution.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladar View Post
    Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

    Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?
    Another person who shows why blizzard said no in the beginning. I'm just waiting for Blizzard to threaten to cancel the project if people don't get their acts together.

  18. #58
    Classic had stats that were more natural and made sense for role playing games, nowadays stats are just weird.
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  19. #59
    Bloodsail Admiral glowzone's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    Bucket of sponges
    I wouldn't be surprised if the VAST majority of people had no clue what the stats really do.
    They just google it and find some guide that goes X>Y>Z or the like.

  20. #60
    Classic stats weren't complicated at all, item budget just wasn't organized, so you had to mix and match from different sources across the entire 50-60 content range. The only difference now is that stats make sense and come from max level content for max level players.


    Lua Wall of Shame
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    this thread is a waste of internet

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