Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[Deleted]

This boss has been 1 of the biggest jokes ever in this expansion.

Have you already switched to a more challenging game than WoW? No? There's still time.

[Toronto]

Only difference was that end boss was easier and bosses before him were harder.

[Hebed118]

Coven for us was by far the most difficult. We were pretty melee heavy though...

[Ipsissimus]

I've seen this mess go on since Wrath beta.

A few people in beta doing UK in full Sunwell gear: Omg this place is way too easy. It is just a disappointment. It needs to be tuned harder.
Blizzard: it's the first instance of the game for someone leveling straight after hitting 70. Use the appropriate gear found through questing before giving feedback.
Same people from above: BUT MAH EPIX.

Also, if memory severs right, Naxx was cleared the FIRST WEEK Wrath was out (Second day, I believe? Maybe 3rd), and when it was, people were going on how "sad" this expansion was for raids and they were disappointed in the ease of that and Eye of Eternity.

Then we saw it in again Cata:

Man, Wrath is just too easy and just not challenging at all. I miss the way heroics were hard in BC. (Keep in mind, people were just facerolling, "GOGOGOGOGO", kicking (and/or refusing to heal, whichever may be the case) FRESH 80s from their groups they get from LFG because they didn't outgear the place.)

Cata comes out and punches them in the mouth. "Waaah, this is just too hard. I don't want to learn mechanics in dungeons! Why can't I faceroll? You mean to tell me I have to actually plan my pulls and Crowd control? Unsubbing."

It's a never-ending cycle. What makes it worse, is that those same people will accuse Blizzard of "not listening", which Blizzard DOES listen, makes those changes and then they complain that the changes were made.

Here's a crazy thought: Perhaps the people whining that content is too hard aren't, in fact, the same people who complained that it's too easy in a previous expansion/tier. Consider the possibility that a satisfied costumer is far less likely to be vocal than one who isn't. In fact, my own memory of said expansions is that the people who were unhappy with WotLK dungeons were very happy with the ones that came with ICC, and the ones that came with the launch of Cataclysm, but that was just in my small corner of Azeroth.

The question of whether a game developer should listen to community feedback or not (beyond participation statistics, etc.) is absolutely a valid one. Even on a dedicated forum such as this there are opinions across the entire spectrum regarding what difficulty should the content be at, what each content type should reward and so on and so forth. Painting the community as one uniform blob that sways in a direction against the game's development no matter what Blizzard does is both too disingenuous and apologetic (for Blizzard's various design choices that they suddenly realized an expansion later were bad) that it's hard for me to view people who make such claims as sincere, unless of course they're been touting such notions over thousands of forum posts within a short time span.

You seem slightly more selective with your postings than some of those who ramble on about epeen and how the community can't handle challenges or whatever else, so please do consider that there are a lot of people out there with very different ideas regarding what content WoW should offer. It's most certainly not the same people switching back and forth like idiots.

[Millyraynge]

Argus is just a gear check. During the first week it was seemingly not possible to kill him because of his high tuned numbers. He also received a nerf starting at 60% instead at 66%. His mechanics are hard hitting and phase 3 is a soft enrage phase. Once you have increased gear he will become easier and easier unlike KJ or Helya which are still quite unforgiving.

[Deleted]

(most of the) WoW community: "wheeeeeeeee, this expension is too easy!!"
Blizzard: "to easy? hm, how can we adress this, lets see."
Kil'Jaeden goes live
(most of the) WoW community: "wheeeeeeee, this boss is rediculous! it needs a nerf asap! does Blizzard not see how hard this is?! wheeeeeeeee"
Blizzard: "to hard? TO HARD?! ok, maybe its a little to hard but didnt you guys ask for this? fine we'll nerf him."
Argus (Boss) goes live
(most of the) WoW community: "wheeeeeeeee, this game is to easy, wheeeeeeeee"

when is this gonna stop?

When blizzard would decide once again to come up with interesting boss mechanics on raid bosses, as it used to be from BC to the end of MOP, rather than trying to cut costs on raid development by designing generic and uninteresting mechanics.

Currently most of the difficulty of bosses is tied to how much DPS you need to kill them, with very underwhelming mechanics compared to what we were used to.

[kamuimac]

When blizzard would decide once again to come up with interesting boss mechanics on raid bosses, as it used to be from BC to the end of MOP, rather than trying to cut costs on raid development by designing generic and uninteresting mechanics.

Currently most of the difficulty of bosses is tied to how much DPS you need to kill them, with very underwhelming mechanics compared to what we were used to.

they cant because people dont want to deal with such mechanics. and then they have to nerf boss into oblivions .

if its really that boring for people its clear sign they play this game for far to long and time to take a break. becaue what you describe as "boring uninscirbed" mechanics are to tough for 95 % of population who fails anything other then nuking boss while ignoring everything

[Deleted]

if its really that boring for people its clear sign they play this game for far to long and time to take a break.

Generally blizzard has to nerf bosses due to too restrictive DPS requirements. Ans, for the record, people actively leaving wow is what is happening but that's no reason to applaud blizzard for their sloppy boss design (especially in legion, I'd really feel bad if I were currently raiding in mythic due to the very low quality of most of legion's encounter).

Also : boring =/= easy
interesting =/= hard

It's interesting that for some people game design only amounts to "easy" or "hard" without understanding that there are other way to describe a gaming experience.

[Yorimar]

When blizzard would decide once again to come up with interesting boss mechanics on raid bosses, as it used to be from BC to the end of MOP, rather than trying to cut costs on raid development by designing generic and uninteresting mechanics.

Currently most of the difficulty of bosses is tied to how much DPS you need to kill them, with very underwhelming mechanics compared to what we were used to.

you have a point, but unfortionately as someone mentioned the majority of the player base isnt from that era anymore. as soon as a little mechanic where brains have to be used is being implemented they goof out so blizzard has to do dps checks instead of cool mechanic like we are used to. because if they dont they get a rain of ticket saying wow isnt made for casuals

[Twdft]

as soon as a little mechanic where brains have to be used is being implemented they goof out

I remember having 3 guys spread out at Mother Sharaz was difficult business. There are 5men bosses today that have as much mechanics as raid bosses 10 years ago, I don't think BC raiders were brainiacs.

[Deleted]

you have a point, but unfortionately as someone mentioned the majority of the player base isnt from that era anymore. as soon as a little mechanic where brains have to be used is being implemented they goof out so blizzard has to do dps checks instead of cool mechanic like we are used to. because if they dont they get a rain of ticket saying wow isnt made for casuals

It s not necessarily a matter of mechanics being complicated or "hard" as much as it is a problem of mechanics being fun and interesting. I mean, you don't need to be in a raid to find encounters where you need to DPS adds and dodge/soak AOEs (95 % of legion's raid mechanics).

I remember having 3 guys spread out at Mother Sharaz was difficult business. There are 5men bosses today that have as much mechanics as raid bosses 10 years ago, I don't think BC raiders were brainiacs.

It's not a matter of number of mechanics per bosses but rather an issue of mechanics quality. Currently most legion raid bosses could have been 5 man bosses with only minor tweaks.

[Deleted]

Arugs hc is easy and? Who gives a flying f?

[Kelathos]

(most of the) WoW community: "wheeeeeeeee, this expension is too easy!!"
Blizzard: "to easy? hm, how can we adress this, lets see."
Kil'Jaeden goes live
(most of the) WoW community: "wheeeeeeee, this boss is rediculous! it needs a nerf asap! does Blizzard not see how hard this is?! wheeeeeeeee"
Blizzard: "to hard? TO HARD?! ok, maybe its a little to hard but didnt you guys ask for this? fine we'll nerf him."
Argus (Boss) goes live
(most of the) WoW community: "wheeeeeeeee, this game is to easy, wheeeeeeeee"

when is this gonna stop?

You singled out Kil'Jaeden precisely because he was terrible boss design with RNG soak that would one shot the entire raid.
That's no excuse for under tuning all the raid content in Legion. ToV was the lone exception of tuning done right.

[KaPe]

That's no excuse for under tuning all the raid content in Legion. ToV was the lone exception of tuning done right.

Really. Is that why Mythic Helya kills had multiple exploits and it got severely nerfed after a short while because of its' obnoxious design requiring Mass Dispel or 5 healers? Is that why Heroic Odyn had completely broken scaling for smaller raids? Is that why the fight lasted for much longer than it should on Heroic for a first boss? Is that why loot had to be buffed because the difficulty didn't match the rewards at all?

That's "tuning done right" according to you.

[Deleted]

This boss has been 1 of the biggest jokes ever in this expansion.

It shares the spot with Xavius for being way too easy and uninteresting, and makes KJ look like a brick wall.

First off, there are barely any mechanics. The only thing I had to do in our 2 split runs was run to an orb in P1 to get DPS increase, move from big mean cone with 2 second cast time. Dodge some very obvious lines in P2 every 10 seconds. P3 you had again some lines and had to interrupt 1 specific cast. Then P4 is just afk and nuke boss while switching to orbs every 30s or something and dodge small swirly circles.

Like there is NOTHING going on. It's literally a free kill for any guild as long as they can assign healing/raid CDs to key parts of the fight.

Even our Healers were asking if there was supposed to be some raid damage in p2, because they had nothing to do.

I remember Archimonde being a huge brickwall for even higher up Mythic guilds, but this boss is just a joke.

You are the reason why this game and community is in such shape now. I wonder when Blizzard will stop listening to peoples like you.

[Kelathos]

Really. Is that why Mythic Helya kills had multiple exploits and it got severely nerfed after a short while because of its' obnoxious design requiring Mass Dispel or 5 healers? Is that why Heroic Odyn had completely broken scaling for smaller raids? Is that why the fight lasted for much longer than it should on Heroic for a first boss? Is that why loot had to be buffed because the difficulty didn't match the rewards at all?

That's "tuning done right" according to you.

HFC is the pinnacle of raid tuning, my guild's progression through ToV is the closest Blizzard has come since. The rest of the heroic raids in Legion have been complete push overs with very little progression required. And that's with us carrying 2-3 dps who rank at or below 25%. Legion could best be described as meet boss, snap fingers, collect loot. Legion is the first time WoW has felt that badly tuned.

[jinsu]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

a lot of people only raid heroic mate

[SLSAMG]

a lot of people only raid heroic mate

Not the point.

[Deleted]

Reading this thread has given me another reason to meme