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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    So if they alter this talent, nobody will use it, henceforth no need for it to be there at all.

    Hate or not, ability pruning was there for a reason, to make Specialties feel distinct enough while being simple and not force you to buy gaming keyboards and mice because you cant fit all your buttons to your keyboard.

    Sure, there are duds (Like Ret Paladin, but that spec was always a dud) that do not play well, but even a 4-button rotation can be made to feel good to play.
    I mean, the talent is supposed to be there to hybridize the specs which is perfectly fair. That was THE druid class fantasy. The only downside is that it's having some negative effects in PvP I guess.

    Ability pruning wasn't there to make specs feel distinct at all by the way. Most of the pruned abilities were abilities that were very obviously class based ones. Stuff that a basic person of that class would be able to do. Rogue's Concealment (which was added back) was not something that needed to be pruned. Auras, stances, and presences were not important to remove either. It made sense that a master of combat would be able to change their fighting stance to be defensive, aggressive, or neutral. It doesn't matter how you specialize, you will STILL remember your basic training. You might not be AS GOOD at them as people who specialize in those stances, but you can still do it. But the entire point of ability pruning was to make way for new abilities. There were a lot of abilities that were removed for no reason. Stuff that was flavor related, or stuff that was "Too passive".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    I don't think you understand what specialty means... It means it's their specialty.. Not that it's the only thing they can do...

    Does a surgeon who specalized in cardiac surgery not know how to do anything else? Fuck no, they are surgeon, cardiac surgery is just what they know best... It's the same for Druids, they specalize in one (cat for example), they do that one best, and the others not as well.


    Pruning needs to be reversed, a lot, for every class, not amplified... and I shun you harshly for even suggesting more pruning.

    What you really should be asking for is for them to be less good at their non-specialized field, not for it to be removed entirely.
    I made this exact point as well by using the example of warriors. Warrior stances getting removed MAKES NO SENSE lol. It makes sense for a warrior's basic training to include various stances, right? And obviously certain specs are going to better at certain stances, which just makes sense. If you're a Fury warrior and your entire gameplan revolves around going berserk, you'd be better at going full aggro and worse at being more defensive. Prot warriors will obviously specialize in reducing their damage taken, so they will have the better defensive stance.

    Like... shapeshifting forms are just a basic concept for druids. It's one of the first major things you learn. And your point about the surgeon is spot on imo. It's like a Surgeon not knowing how to make an incision anywhere other than the chest simply because they spec'd into their "Cardiac" spec. Cutting into people is a part of your training as a surgeon REGARDLESS of what you choose to specialize in. Just because you can't perform a full knee surgery doesn't mean that you can't open up a knee without causing damage in order to take a look. You probably could even identify what is wrong with the knee, but simply wouldn't be able to replace it.

  2. #42
    Thread should be renamed “I can't kill Resto Druids, when they go bear! Remove bear form, so I can kill them”.

    No thx.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    Thread should be renamed “I can't kill Resto Druids, when they go bear! Remove bear form, so I can kill them”.

    No thx.
    Exactly xD So many people dont know that all you have to id is tunnel druid until he leave bear form -> stun and repeat until he is dead

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    Classes shouldn't get ruined more because of PvP,it happened way too often already
    The last pruning was enforced by a swarm of casual scrubs who despite being evenly geared took a metric dump from their counterparts who were straight out better in using their class' full kit and mechanics at their advantage.

    It's not PvP that called for the removal of snapshotting. It's not PvP that called for the removal of Heroic Strike.
    It's the bad players that did. Bad players who died to Paragons, who died at Thok, who died everywhere and when they stayed alive had nothing better to do than complain that another Affliction was topping the meter and not theirs.

    Calling for mechanical pruning is straight out dumb. Bear should stay. If anything, things should be nerfed a little and depth should be added elsewhere in other specs' kits.

  5. #45
    What OP asks for is just removing of the essence of a druid... yeah no. If anything druid forms are in the worse state ever.

    Bear form is completely useless, literally, with only one button to press, unless you are Guardian spec'ed or talented into Guardian affinity and the related bear pvp talents (talents that don't work if you aren't in Bear form by the way). If you don't, in bear you can only take like... 2 hits? 3 maybe? before dying.

    Cat form is just a form that allows you to minor-stealth (is not effective unless you are feral) and use Dash, unless you spec into Feral, and if you take the Feral Affinity your damage is pretty much pathetic. Same can be said for Balance Affinity.

    Whats the point of having Bear and Cat form if you need to spec into certain talents/specs to make them useful?

    Druid forms should be back to have a basic kit for each form, the abilities that the affinities offer are perfect for that (Bear form should have the Guardian affinity abilities and passive baseline, Cat Form the Feral one, and so on), and then build each spec around the fact of having all those abilities. That's what a true druid should be.
    Last edited by Sylar Hao; 2017-12-09 at 09:54 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar Hao View Post

    Druid forms should be back to have a basic kit for each form, the abilities that the affinities offer are perfect for that (Bear form should have the Guardian affinity abilities and passive baseline, Cat Form the Feral one, and so on), and then build each spec around the fact of having all those abilities. That's what a true druid should be.
    It's a shame that I have to wait for the classic servers in order to be able to play a druid with its forms again.
    So after 13 years druids have less tools and abilities than they had when the game was released... that means a lot.

  7. #47
    Titan Aeula's Avatar
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    Not in combat. Or at least with a much reduced effectiveness.

    Resto bears are annoying as hell in arenas and BG's.
    Last edited by Aeula; 2017-12-09 at 10:08 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    I do not think so.

    Yes your analogues are good, but no, Druids have way more off-spec versatility. It's like having a mage that can blink, use healing spells, and tank.

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    I do not believe this is removing anything. You still have shape-shifting ability.

    And druids are never top tier in any specific area because of it. Your perspective is pretty bad.

    Mages do more damage than druids, have a lot more CC, and defensive cds, because druids can "heal, dps, tank".

    Balance has 1 defensive CD outside of "BEAR FORM" (which is a joke).
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  9. #49
    I honestly couldn't tell you exactly what changed with Bear form in Legion...but, it's absurd. I wouldn't say remove Bear form for non-guardians. But, I seriously think it needs at the very minimum a 2 min CD. Bear form would still be super strong as a 2 min CD and utterly broken with no cooldown, like it is now.

    Stop and think for a second and compare Bear form to the 2 minute CDs of other specs...ya, it's much stronger. That's a real problem. I think Resto Druid suffers because of Bear form and rather than Nerf Bear form they Nerf Resto heals which just silly.
    Last edited by Stormcleave; 2017-12-12 at 10:50 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    Example: I mean, should Restoration/Feral/Balance be able to shift into a bear to gain survivabilty?

    From what I am seeing in Arena, druids ATM are neigh-on impossible to tackle, due to their huge diversity of gameplay, they can activate a form for literally everything depending on the situation.

    This makes them nigh-on unkillable, especially Restoration Putting HoTs on himself and running away in Bear form.

    Feral should be able to turn into cats, Guardians-Bear, Balance-Moonkin, and Resto-Tree. That is what Specialty means, different druids specialize in utilizing different forms (Druids of the Claw, Talon, etc). Wanna go out of cat for and heal yourself fine, Cyclone someone else? Fine, but the rest is BS. Travel and Swimming forms should be available to all, naturally.

    I get it, this may be viewed as dumbing down of the class, such as it is, and I am waiting for some Druid mains and such to tell me why that should not be the case, but this shape-shift system seems to be a relic of times old, which has escaped the class pruning.

    Removing this ability will lead to simpler specs to balance for sure.
    Sigh.

    Listen well because I'm only going to share this with you once.

    Your logic is flawed because it is based on failure from your part and a lack of solid grasp on the way things are and how the game is balanced.

    I have a rough image of what scenario you encountered, let me sketch it out for you and explain where your mistake lies:

    1) you are most likely a melee class.
    2) you most likely play a class without many stuns.
    3) given 1) and 2) your class is probably frost DK , arms warrior or ret pala.
    4) you queued up 2v2 via LFG and your resulting skill level/ mmr is below 1.8k.
    5) you faced a resto druid and decided to tunnel vision hit.
    6) you were unsuccessful.
    7) your brain tried to think about why you miserably failed.
    8) your conclusion was that resto druids are op and need to have a severe playstyle change altering not only the pvp aspect of the class but it's overall gameplay.
    9) you open a thread on mmochamp to whine about it.

    Did you not consider for a second that, maybe, just maybe, you lack the proper knowledge as to why you failed?

    First of all, the garbage that is wow pvp is balanced around 3v3 ( or whatever balance means in the eyes of the devs ).

    Second, druids are extremely vulnerable to hard swap stuns when they're in caster form and not hotted up.

    Third, their survivability is balanced around bear form in a 3v3 setting, so naturally they would feel tankier in 2v2 because that is not the area they were balanced for.

    And lastly, you do not possess the necessary toolkit to solo a resto druid, thus the logical answer you should've reached was to find a 3rd within a viable comp for ur class and play 3v3, you will find much better success within the same mmr you were playing on in 3v3.

    /thread

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