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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaWarlock View Post
    Why not? It's happened to plenty of other classes for far longer periods. I agree things need to try and be balanced, but they never manage it - why is it always so offensive if it's a warlock? There's never the outrage when it's other classes than there is when it's a lock. Why is it acceptable to spend months into the expansion brokenly bad beyond reason?
    One could also argue that, on average, locks tend to be "OP" towards the end of an expansion. Aff in Legion, Demo (until it got curbed) in WoD, Destro in MoP and so on. Locks have always been the class of which at least one spec scales really well, regardless of the iteration. The downside to this is that it looks like we get more nerfs when we scale out of hand because they know the flow of balancing a bit better towards the end of an expansion mixed with us simply scaling better with gear than other classes.

    So far, almost always, they've redesigned classes when a new expansion releases, removed/added secondary stats and so on. This makes it so, at least to some extent, the devs have to re-learn which knobs to turn when balancing. As a side-effect, at the start of the expansion buffs and nerfs always seem heavy-handed (see SPs after EN whos dps got obliterated after nerfs). Whereas at the end, some classes scale better so start seeing a more steady stream of small nerfs/buffs as we saw with, for example, Affliction. Obviously this is still always to mixed results.

    I'm not sure how accurate all this is of course, this is just kind of the trend I've been seeing over the time I've spent in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I think there'll be a shitstorm.

    period.

  2. #22
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    1. Dot nerfs 100% expected and needed tbh, only 3/11 fights are pure single target so as per usual scaling is just gonna make us monsters with more gear.

    2. T20 nerf again needed to actually make the 2p with added ilvl worth equipping bar insane lucky titanforges on T20, also has a large impact on current performance on cleave/add fights.

    3. T21 4p Buff, wasnt expecting this, but its clear that even with the 4p T20 nerfs and with how well haste scales in multi-dot situations it was needed to combat ppl just trying for high titanforge T20. It also raises the value of mastery/crit since the 4p doesn't effect UA at all, which also makes us weaker on ST bar the 2p so still strange.

    My feelings are, it could have been a lot worse, i was really expecting some heavy handed changes with how i was performing in HC last week compared to others. The fights are a real showcase of if you know how to play aff well, you are going to kill it. Also i think ppl are also forgetting that affliction will always perform well on longer encounters as everyone pretty much now has the execute ring so its going to see some great use if you are progressing with the spec.

    Oh and as to those whining about ppl will dump the spec for mythic progress cause of the nerfs.......thats just BS, the spec is sat because of how it does its damage not how much, two very different things. Destro is preferred because it has far more control over where its damage goes i.e snap burst, so in bleeding edge content where enrage timers matter, having control over when you can push phases or have adds die when you want them too is infinitely more desirable than more spread cleave damage. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if the worlds first guilds were taking destro over affliction even if there was a 10% damage margin.

  3. #23
    With the "adjustment" to Tier 20 4p, is it worth it to break up the 4p and rock Tier 20 and Tier 21 2p until you can get all of Tier 21 4p?

  4. #24
    The answer to your question is here: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryg View Post
    The answer to your question is here: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot
    Do people use raidbot over simc now? I've used both and they always give me conflicting data as far as stat weights.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalem View Post
    Do people use raidbot over simc now? I've used both and they always give me conflicting data as far as stat weights.
    considering raidbot is just an online simc they should not conflict. Chances are you have outdated versions of simcraft and/or apl on your computer.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadandlivin View Post
    Anytime you specc to do additional 'dps' that's not needed it's padding. If you have classes who're handeling add damage and you specc away from single target damage just to do 'uncessary' damage for the sake of numbers that's padding, even if it's effective dps. I'd guess that you don't care about the difference between 'DPS' and boss damage.

    Anyways, you missunderstood what I meant. First of all, the example I gave was the definition of unecessary damage. The only reason I managed to harness that log was because there were 5 Amanthul adds up, (you know, those who heal themselves to 100% every 20 second) which I could freely dot while soloing the boss at 5% execute alone. This is the definition of padding.

    If you create a raid group where you have Warlocks, as an example, soloing the adds on High command with Absolute corruption + Slow ring prohibiting anyone to touch the adds just for the sake of parsing. That'll show you what I mean by Warlocks being the best class in the game at cheesing. If you check top logs for any add fight you'll see the reason why locks dominate the logs. Because they're overpowered at cheese strats due to Absolute Corruption. Doing these strats where one single warlock single handedly carries the add damage gives a skewed picture of Afflictions actual performance.
    If I'm not mistaken, our corruption has a chance to generate additional shards from our tier20 2set... so us having corruptions on additional adds permanently helps our damage on our main target. Quit being an idiot

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dranxadin View Post
    Whats their to google, affliction has had little to no presence in the top end guilds this expansion during the progression race. That despite the fact the spec has been overpowered for most of the 2nd half the expansion. Its just affliction scaling problem, that forces them to nerf affliction every time mythic comes out, then spec sees little to no use in those next couple of weeks when all first kills happen. Then affliction gears up, goes past everyone and the cycle repeats.
    This is true lol.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We removed reforging because there was no RNG involved.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadandlivin View Post
    Anytime you specc to do additional 'dps' that's not needed it's padding. If you have classes who're handeling add damage and you specc away from single target damage just to do 'uncessary' damage for the sake of numbers that's padding, even if it's effective dps. I'd guess that you don't care about the difference between 'DPS' and boss damage.

    Anyways, you missunderstood what I meant. First of all, the example I gave was the definition of unecessary damage. The only reason I managed to harness that log was because there were 5 Amanthul adds up, (you know, those who heal themselves to 100% every 20 second) which I could freely dot while soloing the boss at 5% execute alone. This is the definition of padding.

    If you create a raid group where you have Warlocks, as an example, soloing the adds on High command with Absolute corruption + Slow ring prohibiting anyone to touch the adds just for the sake of parsing. That'll show you what I mean by Warlocks being the best class in the game at cheesing. If you check top logs for any add fight you'll see the reason why locks dominate the logs. Because they're overpowered at cheese strats due to Absolute Corruption. Doing these strats where one single warlock single handedly carries the add damage gives a skewed picture of Afflictions actual performance.
    Our T20 2pc gives Corruption the ability to provide soul shards, which in turn gives me more UA's on the main target. Why the fuck would I not Agony and Corruption anything and everything?

    Quit being dense.

  10. #30
    Whether you have 1 or 546 Corruptions out the chance of a soul shard with T20 is the same.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryhardzy View Post
    Our T20 2pc gives Corruption the ability to provide soul shards, which in turn gives me more UA's on the main target. Why the fuck would I not Agony and Corruption anything and everything?

    Quit being dense.
    what is RPPM?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    Whether you have 1 or 546 Corruptions out the chance of a soul shard with T20 is the same.
    What about Agony?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadandlivin View Post
    Anytime you specc to do additional 'dps' that's not needed it's padding. If you have classes who're handeling add damage and you specc away from single target damage just to do 'uncessary' damage for the sake of numbers that's padding, even if it's effective dps. I'd guess that you don't care about the difference between 'DPS' and boss damage.

    Anyways, you missunderstood what I meant. First of all, the example I gave was the definition of unecessary damage. The only reason I managed to harness that log was because there were 5 Amanthul adds up, (you know, those who heal themselves to 100% every 20 second) which I could freely dot while soloing the boss at 5% execute alone. This is the definition of padding.

    If you create a raid group where you have Warlocks, as an example, soloing the adds on High command with Absolute corruption + Slow ring prohibiting anyone to touch the adds just for the sake of parsing. That'll show you what I mean by Warlocks being the best class in the game at cheesing. If you check top logs for any add fight you'll see the reason why locks dominate the logs. Because they're overpowered at cheese strats due to Absolute Corruption. Doing these strats where one single warlock single handedly carries the add damage gives a skewed picture of Afflictions actual performance.

    You should go back to the drawing board and learn about Warlocks Tier set and class mechanics... Then you'd realize how silly you just came across.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    Whether you have 1 or 546 Corruptions out the chance of a soul shard with T20 is the same.
    Yes, the chance of a soul shard with T20 is the same, except the number of times you have for that chance to pop is not.

    Having 1 Corruption ticking (let's say) 1 time every 1 second, means that with a 20%, you generate roughly 1 shard every 5 seconds. If you have 5 Corruptions ticking at the same rate, you statistically generate 1 shard every 1 second. If you had 546 Corruptions ticking at that rate, statistically, you could never hope to never be capped on shards because you would generate roughly 109.2 shards every second. The point is, unless there is an internal CD from the proc that globally effects the spell itself from generation, more Corruptions = more shard generation.

  15. #35
    using agony would not be padding though, it feeds into our ST. M mistress is great example cause you can agony the adds and just pump UAs into the boss

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Thagrynor View Post
    Yes, the chance of a soul shard with T20 is the same, except the number of times you have for that chance to pop is not.

    Having 1 Corruption ticking (let's say) 1 time every 1 second, means that with a 20%, you generate roughly 1 shard every 5 seconds. If you have 5 Corruptions ticking at the same rate, you statistically generate 1 shard every 1 second. If you had 546 Corruptions ticking at that rate, statistically, you could never hope to never be capped on shards because you would generate roughly 109.2 shards every second. The point is, unless there is an internal CD from the proc that globally effects the spell itself from generation, more Corruptions = more shard generation.
    Not trying to be a jerk, but you don't really understand how RPPM or the T20 set bonus works.

    This is correct in the case of Agony, but is completely incorrect in the case of Corruption's interaction with T20. T20 is RPPM, not a flat chance. The amount of Corruptions active make no difference in the proc rate. The only thing that increases the RPPM chance is haste--it is not impacted by multiple targets. As far as the calculation is concerned, those 546 corruptions are one instance of corruption ticking. It simply sees it as a lot of ticks and adjusts the proc rate accordingly. It's the same reason a RPPM trinket procs at the same frequency on a dual-wielding rogue as it does a 2h warrior. Whether or not you have 1 or 1000 Corruptions out, you will receive .65 procs per minute.

    This is a pretty good read if you want to learn more: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...e-information/
    Last edited by Espo; 2017-12-05 at 10:09 PM.

  17. #37
    Last edited by Vipala; 2017-12-05 at 10:39 PM.

  18. #38
    So many people criticising others while being wrong themselves. Look at your logs. Yes there is some RNG involved but like was said above the chance to get a shard back is 0.65 (+ haste I believe) per minute regardless of the number of Corruptions out. This equates to about one per minute and hence is why the set is so weak on MT when you are cycling so many shards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Myztikrice View Post
    What about Agony?
    More Agonies mean more ticks which mean more shard bits (and eventually more shards). However, it is not linear so 2 Agonies do not give you double the soul shard bits of having only one out and so on and so forth.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    Whether you have 1 or 546 Corruptions out the chance of a soul shard with T20 is the same.
    Great. Now I want a boss fight in which we have 546 corruptions out.

  20. #40
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    Agony is only worth it on useless adds until you have like 4 total rolling for twice the amount of shards compared to 1 agony.

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