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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Now it's a level playing field. Now everyone can see them instead of just more experienced players. Stealth was overpowered against newer players and useless against better ones. Now everyone's playing around the same thing.
    And thus it should be removed because it is now useless against everyone.

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  2. #22
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    And thus it should be removed because it is now useless against everyone.
    As discussed in the other thread (and this is now well off-topic), stealth is now exclusively an anti-targetting shroud. Learn to adapt to change.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by MHMabrito View Post
    Stealth in HOTS is a complete joke.
    Stealth in any competitive multi-player game is a joke. It's a mechanic that is counter intuitive to driving conflict.

  4. #24
    Chromie is my main and my favorite hero. I for one definitely see how she's difficult, but the artillery-longrange gameplay is what I prefer to do since my reactions aren't the best, so I end up being terrible with most melee heroes and such.

    Plus Chromie is super cute.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    well, for me when i get hit by Chromie i always see numerous things i've done wrong that got me hit.
    Well this is implying that no one ever should be getting hit by a Chromie's abilities which is just ludicrous. There will never ever be a time where a human can play perfectly enough to never get hit by her stuff in a match and when you do is when it really matters. Like she doesn't even need to hit you to be honest, she can whiff Qs and get free long range AAs for doing nothing with Bronze Talons.

    This thread wasn't about Chromie being Balanced or fine, it's about her not being fun to play against...like ever. I don't feel I'm getting outplayed by getting hit by invisible time traps and Ws.

  6. #26
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCD View Post
    Well this is implying that no one ever should be getting hit by a Chromie's abilities which is just ludicrous. There will never ever be a time where a human can play perfectly enough to never get hit by her stuff in a match and when you do is when it really matters. Like she doesn't even need to hit you to be honest, she can whiff Qs and get free long range AAs for doing nothing with Bronze Talons.

    This thread wasn't about Chromie being Balanced or fine, it's about her not being fun to play against...like ever. I don't feel I'm getting outplayed by getting hit by invisible time traps and Ws.
    You may very well not feel outplayed, but that's definitely what happens. If you run face first into a trap with Chromie waiting for you to walk into it - you got outplayed. If you tried to predict where W lands and failed - you got outplayed. If you find yourself in a narrow tunnel against Chromie on the other side and get peppered with Qs - you got outplayed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You may very well not feel outplayed, but that's definitely what happens. If you run face first into a trap with Chromie waiting for you to walk into it - you got outplayed. If you tried to predict where W lands and failed - you got outplayed. If you find yourself in a narrow tunnel against Chromie on the other side and get peppered with Qs - you got outplayed.
    Not really.

    Obviously you can not dodge everything, but I reliable dodge like 80% of enemy Chromie casts. However when stars align and she hits you, you are down to 50% health. That's why it feels cheap, the better player you are the more it feels like lucky accident than skill.

    The only difference between good and bad Chromie is how they cover the area with their abilities, hoping to hit you with at least one ability depending on the direction you side step.

  8. #28
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    This is a copy/paste of your post from the heroes forums.

    As everybody told you there, just learn to play.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  9. #29
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    Not really.

    Obviously you can not dodge everything, but I reliable dodge like 80% of enemy Chromie casts. However when stars align and she hits you, you are down to 50% health. That's why it feels cheap, the better player you are the more it feels like lucky accident than skill.

    The only difference between good and bad Chromie is how they cover the area with their abilities, hoping to hit you with at least one ability depending on the direction you side step.
    I'm not sure about it, random hits are just that - random. But power of Chromie comes from her synergy with CC from allies. You can't say that Chromie whowaited 7 seconds for her Diablo to lock you down, then unloaded her W+Q into you weren't skillful, but just got lucky, compared to those 360 noscope mlg Chromies who try to spam her skills like Ming does and hope it hits something, the she hits Johanna who barely feels it and her team gets decimated because she can't follow up with anything for a really long time.

    I strongly disagree that Chromie is about covering area and trying to land just one ability, good Chromie will utilize vision range, CC, pathing, she will try to predict where and how fast you moved from your lane to hit you. It's far from being lucky or accidentally hitting someone.

    There are proper ways of playing certain characters, just like you don't throw your skills randomly on KTZ, hoping to hit someone with at least something - you see for an opportunity to chain grab someone, then land a devastating combo. Same with Chromie, you may very well poke - but that's not her strongest side, whiffing your skillshots at someone too mobile to reliably hit is the worst thing Chromie can do - forget about that unhindered tracer, pull her to your trap, then land your shit.
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2017-12-07 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  10. #30
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I'm not sure about it, random hits are just that - random. But power of Chromie comes from her synergy with CC from allies. You can't say that Chromie whowaited 7 seconds for her Diablo to lock you down, then unloaded her W+Q into you weren't skillful, but just got lucky, compared to those 360 noscope mlg Chromies who try to spam her skills like Ming does and hope it hits something, the she hits Johanna who barely feels it and her team gets decimated because she can't follow up with anything for a really long time.

    I strongly disagree that Chromie is about covering area and trying to land just one ability, good Chromie will utilize vision range, CC, pathing, she will try to predict where and how fast you moved from your lane to hit you. It's far from being lucky or accidentally hitting someone.

    There are proper ways of playing certain characters, just like you don't throw your skills randomly on KTZ, hoping to hit someone with at least something - you see for an opportunity to chain grab someone, then land a devastating combo. Same with Chromie, you may very well poke - but that's not her strongest side, whiffing your skillshots at someone too mobile to reliably hit is the worst thing Chromie can do - forget about that unhindered tracer, pull her to your trap, then land your shit.
    I thought we aren't talking here about obvious coordination and fundamentals. Utilizing vision, CC, pathing, proper cooldown and resource management; and stutter stepping are not exclusive to Chromie.

    As I said the difference between good and bad Chromie is smart Trap placement and area coverage when poking. You can disagree as much as you want, but in higher level of play Chromie players have to do that as they are never going to land a whole combo on target that sees them without CC.
    Last edited by RH92; 2017-12-07 at 01:52 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    This is a copy/paste of your post from the heroes forums.

    As everybody told you there, just learn to play.
    So apprently everyone on the HOTS forums represents everyone on MMO champion and reddit as well?
    Playing against chromie is NOT L2P lol. Shes a poorly designed hero that almost every pro player I've spoken with hates.

  12. #32
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCD View Post
    So apprently everyone on the HOTS forums represents everyone on MMO champion and reddit as well?
    Playing against chromie is NOT L2P lol. Shes a poorly designed hero that almost every pro player I've spoken with hates.
    Chromie has been at the bottom of the winrates since she was released. She is the 3rd lowest winrate-on-release hero EVER, with the other 2 being Cho'Gall, and Medivh. She has extremely obvious counters to pick if you are facing her - Anub'Arak, Illidan, Medivh, among others. The EASIEST way to counterplay her is to figure out her location, and then move in a perpindicular, unpredictable pattern in comparision to her position.

    Yes, her ultimate WILL likely result in a death on the majority of the ranged assassin cast if left uncountered. However, a LARGE multitude of heroes CAN counter it. Out of the squishy mages, EVERY single mage can counter in some form or another. Kael'Thas can talent so that his E has enough range to stun Chromie. Jaina has Ice Block after quest completion. Gul'Dan's comes in a bit late, but he gets 40% spell armor at 13, allowing him to easily survive it. Li-Ming has a lvl 1 talent that perfectly counters the ult. Kel'Thuzad can stun Chromie as well at a distance with a well-placed E.

    Going into ranged AA, Valla can Gloom to negate it. Lunara has both unstoppable from Leap, Greater Spell Shield at 13, AND Cleanse at 20. Junkrat can disrupt Chromie with a knockback. Genji can deflect it. Tracer can break it with E. Zul'Jin can Taz'Dingo it to survive, same CD. Sylv has Spell Shield at 13. Tychus has Neosteel Plating. Hammer now has 50% armor while sieged. The list goes on and on - Really, the ONLY assassin who does NOT have the tools to survive a full-powered Chromie combo is Greymane, but then, he has enough power that a high-skilled, sub-50%, 26% pickrate Chromie, and less even then that at higher ranks, will barely make a dent in his overall stats.

    Now, lets see exactly HOW much damage a Chromie can actually do, not assuming something stupid like her having 200 stacks (If she has that many, your entire team got outplayed by Chromie more or less, and deserved to get wombo-combod).

    40% spell power buff, which needs 8 seconds, at least, to power up to full.

    200 extra damage on W, 25% more damage in the middle.

    Lets assume that its lvl 11, and she has completed her quest, so 300 extra damage on Q, and +40% from clone.

    Q damage - 1304 total.

    W damage - 1593 damage total.

    So, 2897 damage for a full combo. At lvl 11, Greymane will have 2776 health, with 10% armor. At full health, Greymane will survive her wombo-combo in Worgen form, with about 298 HP to spare.

    If you have a cleanse available, you don't even take the damage.

    If you have a spell-shield available, you take 1448 damage - Everybody is more then capable of surviving that at 11. Except Murky or a Viking, but if Chromies wasting her full combo on those 2, free win. Granted, Spell-shield is only available at 13, so thats that. Still, 5 lvls of being wombo-combo'd probably isn't going to make too much of a difference in the long run.

    Also, your tank can soak the Q shot, halving the effective damage until 18.

    Now, W, since I see you complain about it a bit. Note that W WILL reveal Chromie on the map - If you see her pop up briefly on the minimap, she fired her W somewhere. This can be used if Chromie isn't even engaged in PvP - If she uses W at a merc camp, she reveals herself there. In addition, the animation on her is very obvious.

    When this happens, you have 1.5 seconds, a BIT more time then what Kael'Thas has to get out of his Q, to move from your current spot, on over to where you both A) Won't retreat to, and B) Nobody else is at. If you STILL get hit by it at this point, then either A) That Chromie is psychic, and you should just sit in your core and never move because a psychic Chromie WILL carry the team to victory since she will have near-100% accuracy with Q and W, or B) That Chromie wiffed it normally, and just got a lucky shot. I believe that B is the better answer.

    So, Chromie's W is NOT completely unpredictable - It just requires A) Assumption that she is firing at you or in the obvious path of retreat, OR at a nearby allies, and B) observing Chromie RATHER then your own feet, where AoE normally would appear. I have little problems with Chromie's W outside of an outer CC of some sort.

    Chromie's E - I assume that you also step in every single one of Abathur's mines as well?

    Figure out where Chromie is. Whereever she is at, there is likely a trap nearby.

    If you see the trap, then note that spot. Avoid that spot, OR use it to get out of a R. I love wiffing Chromie's R by walking into her traps.

    Use an AoE, and then have the Ranged clear it out. Or let the tank walk into it. Or if she didn't take Timely Surprise, wait until you see her W get used, then walk into it yourself.

    Bronze Talons? It adds a bit of ranged AA poke, or some ranged AA finisher. It also puts Chromie up REALLY close, enough for any dive to hop on her ass and take out the squishiest non-Murky/TLV character in the game.


    Note, of course, that having dive on your team is CRITICAL against a Chromie. Whats more, your entire team will need to be oriented around getting in there and fucking the backline up in order to completely negate Chromie. Note that if your team DOES have the cooridination for it, it basically makes every teamfight essentially a 4v5, as Chromie is nothing without her poke.

    Speaking of, Chromie WILL win out any poking contest, even at 50% accuracy rating.

    So, really, it IS an issue of L2P. A LARGE number of heroes require not just you, but the ENTIRE team to play around in order to actually win. If you even 1 player fails to play around said hero, then unless that player sucks with said hero, they will be at an advantage all game.

    Also, as I see it - You came to the Heroes forums to cry about Chromie. When you didn't see everybody circle-jerking you going "YEA DELETE CHROMIE" and "CHROMIE IS EVEN WORSEST THEN GARROSH", AND when you got downvoted almost to buried status, you went to other forums.

    Also, of the 18 replies on Reddit, 15 of them are a variation of "Learn to play. Heres what to do". Even for the ones who said they didn't like her, either said that A) She's vulnerable to dive, or B) She's a high-skill character, so bad chromies are bad, and good chromies fuck me over. That is, if you read the intent.
    Last edited by Raugnaut; 2017-12-08 at 08:30 AM.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  13. #33
    Skill shots should do high dmg.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Chromie has been at the bottom of the winrates since she was released.
    So what you're saying is that Winrates give a 100% indication of a heroes power? Medivh is one of the strongest heroes in the game in the right hands and is constantly used in pro play whom is sitting at 39% winrate. Secondly, You are others are completely missing my argument...all you've done in this reply is talk about numbers. The hero is FRUSTRATING TO PLAY AGAINST, nothing more.

    I come from the fighting game community and fighting games are a lot harder than any MOBA, trust me and this coming from someone who placed 4th at the biggest fighting game tournament in the world EVO. In fighting games sometimes there are just characters that aren't really good but can be very annoying because they are anti fun. This is chromie...fun to play, not fun to play against. Simple concept to understand really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allora View Post
    Skill shots should do high dmg.
    Agreed, however chromies abilities are not skill shots, they are guessing games. Aiming abilities skillfully is completely different than throwing out abilities that have wind up.
    Last edited by GamerLCD; 2017-12-09 at 12:41 AM.

  15. #35
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    @Raugnaut i like you. Speaking of Anub- when Chromie timewarps someone you can simple throw a stun on her and her combo just whiffs, because it requires her to stand still for a long time and cast her Q

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LCD View Post
    Agreed, however chromies abilities are not skill shots, they are guessing games. Aiming abilities skillfully is completely different than throwing out abilities that have wind up.
    There are no "guessing games" abilities, Chromie has skillshots, her Q cast time is simply higher than regular casts, just like KTZ's Q
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LCD View Post
    This is chromie...fun to play, not fun to play against. Simple concept to understand really.
    I don't have any problems playing against her. Doesn't strike me as unfun. Simple concept to understand, really.

  17. #37
    This thread is violating the Venting rule and should be shut down by a moderator.
    "Even if the odds of making a difference are incredibly low. If you had a 1% chance, you'd still fight for it, yeah? Or should we just accept it as "fate"? No, I won't! I'm gonna turn this around!" ~Strike Back

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