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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Since void elves become void elves after legion, then shouldnt they beable to be all blood elf classes like demon hunter?
    I think the most plausible explanation is that there weren't many demon hunters just hanging around Silvermoon, maybe after Legion they can settle down a bit, but so far I've been having the clear impression that with DH is all hands on deck so I really can't see any Illidari being able to have a side project.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    Only if they deviate from hero classes having their own staring experiences. There wouldn't be an void elves back i BC when the DH staring experience starts.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah it's not like warcraft has ever had a race mutated by an evil force in it before! Warcraft is really such a melting pot I have a hard time taking 'this isn't warcraft' seriously most of the time.

    I dont understand all this hate for void elves and highborne. First of all void elves are not an ass pulled race out of nowhere.......they share the exact story with the blood elves of the horde.....whatever story the blood elves have, alliance of lordaeron, destruction of sunwell, joining the horde etc...they share it too. Up until the point they decided to study the dark secrets of the void for the protection of quel'thalas. So if anything they expand that story.

    About the highborne...whatever elven athena says the shendralar are amazing, powerfull and very interesting. And they are the reason we can play as nigh elf highborne. Not because tyrande made a law. Without the mighty highborne of eldre thalas to teach young night elves that law would mean shit
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Ion says High Elves are basically Blood Elves, and so are Void Elves. How do Obelisk Kai and Friendlyimmolation handle it? They froth at the mouth, yelling as loud as they can "ION SAID HIGH ELVES ARE DEAD AND ARE NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! THE CONVERSATION IS OVER! ION IS WoW JESUS!"

  3. #223
    Nightborne should be Alliance. Void Elfs should be Horde - obviously.

    So stupid that, in the name of “Blood Elfs should be available to Alliance - Night Elfs should be available to Horde”, we now make Allied races for that to happen. It makes no sense. Everything about Void Elfs scream HORDE!

    This decision evens out the difference between Alliance and Horde. That makes it a bad decision. The differences should be made bigger.

  4. #224
    Btw the male Belf hairstyles totally make me think of this:

  5. #225
    Stood in the Fire Banorak's Avatar
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    Sorry but I have like zero interests in the alliance emo elves they're not for me, they can be for you or some group of people but not for me and I am certain not for everyone else as well.

    I'm excited for the Highmountain, Zandalari, and the straight back Orcs.

    I'm not an elf person so that goes into a lot as to why I am not really into this elven craze with the void elves and Nightborne (though they look alright and do appeal to me more than the void elves).

    "Only Beasts are above deceit" - Rexxar

  6. #226
    Stood in the Fire Akta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Since void elves become void elves after legion, then shouldnt they beable to be all blood elf classes like demon hunter?
    i don't know a blood elf demon hunter is already filled with fel, maybe they didn't follow the void path cause they already had one.
    ...Le Poète est semblable au prince des nuées
    Qui hante la tempête e se rit de l'archer;
    Exilé sul le sol au milieu des huées,
    Ses ailes de géant l'empêchent de marcher.

    Charles Baudelaire

  7. #227
    Purple belfs with goaties. Tauren with moose antlers. About as appealing as used toilet paper. Shame on Blizzard. Shame!

  8. #228
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    so Ally gets the misunderstood emo kid, that's cool. Might actually roll one and call it "Rawrxd"

  9. #229
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggit View Post
    The amount of anger being thrown around over not liking some playable race in a video game is really silly.
    I actually find it quite amusing. I very much enjoy reading all the hate thrown at the void elves.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    learning from the Highborne.
    But as it wasn't them, and it was students only a few weeks into training, you really shouldn't conclude you are seeing the extent of highborne magic, nor can you say that the disgraceful way blizzard portrays the night elves later on in the questis the full indication of the race according to their own lore. It is not matchless writing and in blizzard's world a group or being can be incredibly powerful /gifted or smart and still do dumb things. So it has been with the night elves in-game. But hey
    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    no, they have been hiding in Eldrethalas draining a demon and killing each other off.
    It's not all they've been doing, you are shown and told the reason SOME of them have been doing that - the Prince is being influenced by the demon, and the rest are so focused on magical studies like absent minded professor's they just continue. Now if they're focused on studying magic, you can assume they've seriously advanced in 10,000 years in that field, and when you consider they did not lose any knowledge from the sundering or 1st invasion - unlike the Hyjal survivors cos they kept in their city very much like the nightborne, I think you can deduce that they are comparable at the least to the nightborne of Suramar and have more experience and exposure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    you never paid any attention to what was going on inside Dire Maul. Tortheldrin kept killing off elves as the diminishing returns from the demon that was enslaved started to cost him his power. The Shendrelar just kept their mouth shut as their numbers thinned steadily over time and the city depopulated and was taken over.
    I did pay attention, I never said that didn't happen, I was focusing on explaining to you why Highborne shen'dralar magic isn't outdated like you seem to think. I certainly read everything the Shen'dralar spirit said, but it's not all I read too. Do you know Totherldrin isn't dead in the lore? By killing the demon it appears you free him, so canonically we may beat him but don't kill him. The cataclysm quest changes from the classic quest, in cata the LFG no longer requires you to kill him, and the Shen'dralar spirit quest is entirely optional requring you to obtain the key to the vault. However they finalize it, whether we kill him and he is resurrected, Totherldrin is still alive as he is consulted for the DK artifact questline - furthermore, we learn the shen'dralar that approach the night elves are regarded as uncorrupted, i.e they are not the zealots we meet in the library or if they are they are some of those who were not party to the madness - this is mentioned several times, most notably by the druids in Ferealas - who tell you that Estualn and his leader are uncorrupted highborne. A distinction I can assure you night elves especially druids would be particular about. Read ALL the quests and subtexts. A larger picture is being painted and the clues are not just in one place.

    At the end of the day, those who kept their mouth shut doesn't make them unskilled or outdated in ALL magical fields, you can't reach that conclusion when it isn't logical to do so. You can hate them for what they did, but if the Prince is any indication, some of them were under the spell of the demon when it started drawing power from them. I estimate this started happening not to long ago, Eldre'thalas seems to only have fallen into ruin more recently i.e. 40 to a few 100 years ago, rather than milleniia. The Ferelas quests show you that 7.000 years ago, they were aware of the expulsion of the highborne by the Hyjal group but did nothing to help them or save them. Since they were practicing magic quite brazingly too during all that time, a few other things seem clear. THe night elves at Hyjal weren't aware of them. 2 things indicate this, the fact they were using magic in a continent that the druids were severely suppressing thins use, it means they were skilled and smart enough to hide the magical signature both from the night elves and the burning legion. They were also skilled enough to capture a demon and siphon magical power off it to power their city without opening any other gateway to the nether or drawing the Legion's attention. ALso a quest in classic tells you the night elves haven't been to Feralas since the sundering - i.e. the Hyjal group which is consistent with their isolation story - where they've pretty much stayed in Ashenvale forest northward preventing anyone from coming close to the Well of Eternity.

    The Hyjal night elves were also in isolation - WC3 and classic paint the indigenous races as seriously revering them as some mystical race (god like) you wouldn't see in generations. They did venture south for the war of the shifting sands about 1,000 years ago, they remember, but many generations of troll and tauren would have passed, and it is probably that they sailed or teleported, possibly via the dream to Silithus or marched through the Barrens south. Sailing is the most logical choice or druidic dream travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    The *Kirin Tor* brokered the deal. Shendrelar rep shows up in Dalaran asking the player to ask Tyrande for an audience, with the Kirin Tor present.
    THat could be possible, but the interaction with the shen'dralar emissary did not involve any Kirin'tor representative, neither is one present when you see Mordant Evenshade in Darnassus later, nor is one every mentioned in Wolfheart or any quest. It is likely you meet the representative in Dalaran because this starts in WotLK when Dalaran is the player hub, as a night elf he would not have been stopped from entering Dalaran, and a mage of his talent would easily be able to hide that fact about him or avoid magical traps. Whatever the reason, there is nothing to suggest in the lore the kirin'tor was involved, and being in Dalaran makes sense since it was the player hub at the time Elven' Athena
    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    Suramar was cut off since the war of the ancients. The shield they put up meant no one went in or out until it came down in Legion. Highborne who gave up arcane and adopted druidic magic cured themselves, much the same way the Arcandor was able to cure the Nightborne. The ones showing up are specifically from the Shendrelar .
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that what I said cannot be correct? Or are you adding to what I said? I mentioned some of the highborne with the night elves were from Suramar because the vast majority of the night elves who marched on Azshara were from Suramar. Some would have worked with Lord Ravencrest, a noble Highborne (quite possibly) in Black rook hold which is a province of Suramar region.

    Many in the city joined the fight, but not all did. Some agreed with Elisande that Lord Ravencrests march was foolhardy and they wouldn't win and stayed behind. BUt you do realize all the priesthood that went with Tyrande and didn't stay in the Temple that fell were all from Suramar right, and many of the night elves who had already experienced a demonic invasion were from there. The Moonguard stronghold and HQ was in that region too, and we are told some highborne after the sundering remained with the night elves and put aside their titles and the old culture, adopting druidsm when they couldn't practice magic. We are told this in lore.

    Not all the highborne with the survivors joined in with Darth'remar, and it is likely not all the non-highborne night elves would have sided with the druids, A realistic approach would have MOST highborne with darth'remar but some magic loving night elves would have seen it his way. ANyway, the lore explicitly states some highborne remained with the night elves practiced druidsm, putting of their titels, some of these returned to magic when the ban was lifted. Now these would be highborne who are totally out of practice and wielding outdated magic (in some fields other have advanced in like the high/blood elves) they would still likely know tons of stuff forgotten, but then if Darth'remar's lot were so out of practice with a lot of knowledge lost to them after only 3k years without magic, these guys would be worse off after 10k years without magic. However they are not the shen'dralar highborne, they are highborne who've come back to the arcane after 10k years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    I'm aware of this. I said the magic they are being taught is out of date. And it is. Compared to the Blood Elves and the Kirin Tor it's outdated and weak, which is why the novices wielding it are completely outclassed.
    Ah , so you are aware it wasn't the shen'dralar magic - so why are we even having this argument? You can't conclude because one aspect of a newly raised teacher is out of date, then all her magic is - especially when blood elves are known to be arrogant and brag a lot - it's how the horde is written, doesn't mean what they is totally true. It was correct for the construct, but I would never assume therefore all their magic was archaic and out of date - by mere logic - i would only conclude that at best they hadn't updated the teaching method there, and there are tons of explanations, like BElves who've had to fight wars have had to make certain improvements on previous magical knowledge since their opponents they now face also know more about magic and it was discovered they could copt the construct. This makes sense that in some forms of combat magic they'd be more experienced than a group that hasn't really used its magical knowledge for battle in 10.000 years nor had to face an opponent who knew magic or deal with counter espionage.

    IT also explainable by teacher who is completely aware of the exploit but is quite confident that she candeal with any intereference because her knowledge is vast and it turns out that while it can be sabotaged as long as she is there that outcome can be guarded against and it happens to be the fastest way of teaching the arcane. It could be she knew this, was reluctant to use it, but had to because they needed to train night elves fast, or she was arrogant and didn't fear or think any of the muppet races (goblins/orcs) around her would even know or that she was secure in a spot away from the conflict that the chances of that were slim - afterall the teacher was assassinated, and had to be out of the way before the construct could be manipulated. And the ones at the base are clearly night elf newbies to magic who were once druids now learning the arcane (probably some of those restored highborne)as they cast Wrath spells as well as frost/fire bolts when you fight them.

    Again, you have to think more about it, magic would be vast area, like science, so many areas and aspects that people can work on and achieve astonishing results and methods that would be lost in a world apocalypse unless you had a city full of experts with the knowledge and all their books, arcane tomes and constructs and arcane ancients intact with all that knowledge locked away or hiding in a city .. everyone else would only keep the knowledge in their head, but that would only be a fraction of the combined knowledge of the world which would be lost to everyone of your people who didn't have the books and computers saved (i.e. the night elf survivors of Hyjal).

    In time, 3k years later, the highborne who get exiled would be out of practice, and while still retaining what they've learned so much knowledge would be lost of vast numbers of improvements, methods, achievements and things - think post apocalypse world - the night elf empire is not the stone ages or the roman empire pre-technology world, it is more like the magical equivalent of a scientific advanced age/group that is now in ruins - where only 2 cities survive with the knowledge but they are hidden to the main group of survivors. In time the expelled high elves will learn some things, recover knowledge, make advancement in areas they need like combat some improved over the arcane empire level, but in many areas, they'd be lost as they have no where near the scope and breadth of an entire world of elves in many cities in all sorts of applications, nor do they have a potent power source like Well of Eternity to do truly complex and breadth taking feats that require experts in diverse fields drawing an a global empire of knowledge.

    IT's not to say they are dumb, or haven't made some advancements, but they clearly won't be at the level of the nightborne people or the shen'dralar highborne. This is by dedcution based on the lore we are shown and told. Face it you have far less power, less expertise, fragmented knoweldge, you can do stuff, but it's nothing on the scale or breadth of what you could do before, especially with so much knowledge lost in your group. And for those that didn't lose the knowledge, well a demon is no well of eternity - i.e. no power to grow very quickly and retain/claim what they had, or trapped in a bubble shield, despite having power, there is no space to expand limited space to grow your population and no interaction with dragons and other ancient beings you use to enjoy. This would ofc have severly limited how much you could see of their growth in knowledge, and it would have severely reduced their rate of growth over 10k years, but remember they would be at starting point 10,000 years ago that's above anyone today, and they'd have had everything they've learnt through their feverish research in the last 10k years, the shen'dralar have also been scrying on everyone, so they'd have picked up on the improvements of the humans, high elves and others to add to their own.

    I could never conclude ALL their magic was outdated based on a newly raised teacher and novice students being schooled by an expert blood elf who's likely been wielding magic for 100s of years if not a thousand years. With combat experience, asking a hero to go and massacre novices. It's disgusting - but some would say that's war

    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    There is no explanation how much training these elves had, the point is their toolkit was obsolete. It doesn't matter if you are the best drilled musketeer in the world, someone with a Sig 550 and half a brain will defeat you in combat with ease.
    Actually you are shown. The cataclysm has only just happened a few weeks ago, Wolfheart and the Shattering and the starting quests tell you that the night elves have only just made an alliance with the highborne and training has commenced. Therefore any new night elf is only week into training. You are shown that many night elves are also signing up to learn the arcane, even though there are some who are hostile towards the highborne, not all are reticent about magic. When you understand night elf society, it would seem that some in the druidic order and the priest order hold reservations, but that isn't all the night elves, there are many who are not part of either, there are those who have always wanted to go back to the arcane, and there are those who were moonguard and highborne before the sundering that could return to it. So you can easily see a situation where lots of night elves are very keen to learn, while others like Maiev are very suspicious and think the arcane is pure evil.

    Also the toolkit isn't obsolete for learning rapidly, it is compromised because it has an exploit. But there is so much we don't know. We don't know if their teacher was aware of this or not, and had a counter for it, we don't know if she was aware but only uses it because it is the fastest way to learn the arcane. As I mentioned earlier on she may not have been aware of it simply because she wasn't use to coming up against people who knew magic if she was a magic user 10k years ago, no one would have been able to exploit that, maybe she thought that and concluded Orcs/goblins - no chance, we're okay. Either way, she is taken out of the picture, and we hear the arrogant babble of the BElf but it isn't any indication of the state of ALL highborne magic. Too many unknwons. all we know is that in that particular situation with the teacher eliminated, the construct which is extremely effective for rapid learning can be exploited for war/destructive uses by someone knowledgeable - who would succeed if its just a bunch of novices that have just started learning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elven Athena View Post
    I can and will conclude the Highborne are terrible, ineffective and obsolete mages because they haven't proven their capability at all beyond making night elf mages look like a joke, which, under their guidance, are. Compare that to the Kirin Tor, night elf mages suddenly become a reasonable threat but still nothing compared to the Blood Elves or Nightborne, or to humans for that matter. This idea of the MIGHTY and AMAZING highborne who basically show up and bullshit about 'magic of 10000 years ago being so effing epic and how they'd prove their abilities but they don't want to' etc. etc. shows they are nothing more than arrogant has beens of a bygone era that need Darnassus way more than Darnassus needed them.
    Please don't lecture *me* on night elf lore when you do not know it well yourself. I don't need long-winded erroneous explanations.
    Reach your conclusions, but follow the lore and what the lore states. I'm not saying anything that is not observable in the lore unless I state where I'm speculating. You are not told the full extent of the highborne magic, neither are you shown it, it would be illogical to make a conclusion on all highborne based on novices who are beaten and exploited while learning. For crying out loud the construct could have been there just to teach and the teacher could have been about to tell them in the next few lessons that we don't use it anymore.. we have no idea. How the story goes down there, is no indiciation of the overall depth and breadth of the magic of the highborne. Especially when blizzard confrim to you that the Azshara night elven mages you defeat ARE NOT the Shen'dralar. Let's see how much you expect to master only after a few weeks of training, even with super intellect, you would not have covered all the knoweldge someone who's been at it for 10k years, possibly as much as 14k years has in their head or at their disposal in just a few weeks. THINK for crying out loud.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    Nightborne should be Alliance. Void Elfs should be Horde - obviously.

    So stupid that, in the name of “Blood Elfs should be available to Alliance - Night Elfs should be available to Horde”, we now make Allied races for that to happen. It makes no sense. Everything about Void Elfs scream HORDE!

    This decision evens out the difference between Alliance and Horde. That makes it a bad decision. The differences should be made bigger.
    That's what I said, and everything we see of Thalyssra in 7.0/1 screams alliance even to the draining of the nightwell. Which a power seeking horde minded elf would keep now that you've cured the curse years of abuse did to your body. To drain it is a very "responsible" night elven thing, agreeing to living in balance. To defend the world instead of conquer it, very alliancey night elven - yes they are night elven, but it so fits the alliance not the horde.

    And the whole dangerous void magic, the whole dark brooding, that is very horde, the horde should have got purple blood elves, and the alliance the night elf empire night elves.

    But it's the reverse now, and we have to live with it, it does create some interesting possibilities going forward, all depends on how they write the future.
    Last edited by Mace; 2017-12-07 at 10:06 PM.

  11. #231
    High Overlord Niovi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    I actually find it quite amusing. I very much enjoy reading all the hate thrown at the void elves.
    I'm totally with you! Although its sad sometimes that there is so much 'racism' ingame and you get hate because you play a race someone else doesnt like.

  12. #232
    I love them. The best reason being that they rile people up who join every void elf thread pretending to hate them!

    You can spot void elf fanatics instantly by their over defensive usage of 'emo' ,'edgy', 'kid' and 'emoedgelordkiddies'.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Trickname View Post
    I love them. The best reason being that they rile people up who join every void elf thread pretending to hate them!

    You can spot void elf fanatics instantly by their over defensive usage of 'emo' ,'edgy', 'kid' and 'emoedgelordkiddies'.
    What? I think you dont understand the word fanatic.

  14. #234
    I certainly would like that beard option for my blood elf as well. And forsaken .. and in generall more beard options for all males.

  15. #235
    High Overlord Niovi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromedes View Post
    What? I think you dont understand the word fanatic.
    I think he means the 'i dislike void elf-fanatics', who need to spread their hate in every void elf thread around here for no reason.

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