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  1. #441
    Deleted
    Meh -the concept of guilds as a main progression model is bit outdated to the gamers of today, hence the prevalence of pugging.

    Bit sad, but still true.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by - Lionheart - View Post
    Meh -the concept of guilds as a main progression model is bit outdated to the gamers of today, hence the prevalence of pugging.
    And then people complain vanilla was better because "it had a sense of community". While it was pug unfriendly and queue mode didn't exist.

  3. #443
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    And then people complain vanilla was better because "it had a sense of community". While it was pug unfriendly and queue mode didn't exist.
    "You think you do but you don't"?

  4. #444
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    or maybe - crazy idea - they prefer those lobby based systems ?

    guilds are nothing but outdated relics of past that new people dont want to use as systems

    so giving those advices is pointless.
    Guilds are still pretty much the only way to do mythic, and still, by far, the way way to even do hc.
    The week a new raid opens the few pugs that will clear it all right away wont invite you if you have no exp and low gear. And the first 4-8 weeks of a new raid, the good pugs will just invite people with gear AND aotc/several kills. So if you have no guild you will actually have a hard time pugging hc content, you'll join a lot of pugs that will fail/crumble, waste a lot of time for each boss, and wont even kill all of them. Only after few months, with everyone outgearing the content so bad, you'll probably get into a pug that will kill all bosses without problems.
    So I'm not sure how can you say guilds are outdated relics of the past, it's by far the best way to do content.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by rinelki View Post
    Guilds are still pretty much the only way to do mythic, and still, by far, the way way to even do hc.
    The week a new raid opens the few pugs that will clear it all right away wont invite you if you have no exp and low gear. And the first 4-8 weeks of a new raid, the good pugs will just invite people with gear AND aotc/several kills. So if you have no guild you will actually have a hard time pugging hc content, you'll join a lot of pugs that will fail/crumble, waste a lot of time for each boss, and wont even kill all of them. Only after few months, with everyone outgearing the content so bad, you'll probably get into a pug that will kill all bosses without problems.
    So I'm not sure how can you say guilds are outdated relics of the past, it's by far the best way to do content.

    Yea, pugging heroic is hell. A lot of rls have no idea about this game. If someone is bad he must be kicked else good ppl will leave - most leaders dont understand it.

    Ilvl is very very important, a lot of groups look for curved 950+ ppl but when i que my 960+ char i got invited too fast to link curve.

    The worst groups are those who check logs. It takes ages to get ppl but its easy one-shot usually.

    I was going to do normal today on my alt pala and i was suprised that i found group that was not looking at my ilvl. I had curve, i was not dying and just doing my job. Jk after covens leader had to go and i got kicked without reason. I can understand kicking from HC but normal? xD

    Anyway both norm and hc are for casuals. Sadly you need guild for mythic and for guid you need time...

  6. #446
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Druitz View Post
    Yea, pugging heroic is hell. A lot of rls have no idea about this game. If someone is bad he must be kicked else good ppl will leave - most leaders dont understand it.

    Ilvl is very very important, a lot of groups look for curved 950+ ppl but when i que my 960+ char i got invited too fast to link curve.

    The worst groups are those who check logs. It takes ages to get ppl but its easy one-shot usually.

    I was going to do normal today on my alt pala and i was suprised that i found group that was not looking at my ilvl. I had curve, i was not dying and just doing my job. Jk after covens leader had to go and i got kicked without reason. I can understand kicking from HC but normal? xD

    Anyway both norm and hc are for casuals. Sadly you need guild for mythic and for guid you need time...
    Checking logs is the only thing that works in the first weaks, now you can simply check for numbers of clears. 960 is a shitty gs to be honest, if you are a active player.

  7. #447
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    A lot of these groups aren't progression groups, they are farm groups. They want loot, they don't want to teach people the bosses.

    If you want to progress, find a progression group or make your own.

  8. #448
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    I got into normal Antorus as a 930 paladin healer without Curve today. Just gotta go shopping.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by - Lionheart - View Post
    Not entirely - When you buy a token on the ah, a player has payed money for it - Some other player has payed for your sub that month, in exchange for your in-game resources.
    Blizzard is still getting your sub money - just not from you. Tokens are just an elaborate gold farming/selling system and can't last indefinitely - As people have to be actually buying tokens for money for it to function.

    It could be much worse, there are big profits to be made from random loot boxes in games (overwatch,hots,mobile-games ect) and at some point, the current sub model will become less profitable than free-to-play-pay-to-win, with gear/loot/stat-boost potions in the cash shop.

    Its why we should be encouraging systems to let newer players get into raiding/harder content, prolonging the sub model is in everyone's best interests.
    Having "pay-to-win" type deals for loot wouldn't really worry me at all. If pugs want to invite people based on gearscore only then that's their funeral.

    What the game could really use is more "ready for raiding" type achievements. Achievements that you can only get by playing your character well and following mechanics. Achievements that can only be gained by playing well yourself, unlike "Ahead Of The Curve" which you can get after dying 3 seconds into the fight and letting the rest of the raid kill the boss while you watch.

    My favourite achievement to link to pug leaders is "Hand Of A'dal". To get that title you had to kill Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj pre-nerf in TBC - which at the time were the 2 most difficult bosses the game had so far produced. Sadly hardly anyone knows what it means any more and they'd rather just look at your gear score.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2017-12-27 at 05:10 AM.

  10. #450
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by - Lionheart - View Post
    Telling people to make there own group is such a copy-paste/meme argument these days.
    Lots of people need to have at least one or two runs under their belt before they feel comfortable leading a raid for it - Watching a tactics vid where everything is performed perfectly is often very different to how an encounter actually plays out.

    Its getting to the point where they should just make normal and heroic queable with restrictions for ilvl and having to have completed the previous difficulty.
    There would be a lot of wipes - but it would give newer or less experienced players an opportunity to gain the experience needed to play more difficult content without messing up other peoples pugs.
    I've found time to pug Antorus on my alts this week, and had no problem getting into groups. Yes there were groups in queue with requirements I didn't meet, but my alts did not belong in those groups. There were other groups who were happy to have them. Seems to me that some players here are frustrated that they can't get into what they perceive to be the good groups, because those groups want other players who've worked hard to get ahead of the curve like themselves. So many Antorus pugs atm that unless you are undergeared (below average for the community) you shouldn't have a problem finding something.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  11. #451
    LFM Antorus, lvl 120 or no inv

  12. #452
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcadeBit View Post
    Checking logs is the only thing that works in the first weaks, now you can simply check for numbers of clears. 960 is a shitty gs to be honest, if you are a active player.
    Two legendarys @1000
    3 Relics @945
    NC + 15 Ilevel
    Pantheon trinket @960 (Argus killed in every ID)

    = 955.55

    Getting 960+ means 67 additional ilevel through wf/tf. Thats 14 lucky proccs on 13 items.

    Sure, 960 is really shitty. I know that the highest item level is shown in the tool. But calling 960 (only 15500 players in EU have better gear, aka 1%) shitty is highly delusional.

  13. #453
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vluffyvlaush View Post
    Two legendarys @1000
    3 Relics @945
    NC + 15 Ilevel
    Pantheon trinket @960 (Argus killed in every ID)

    = 955.55

    Getting 960+ means 67 additional ilevel through wf/tf. Thats 14 lucky proccs on 13 items.

    Sure, 960 is really shitty. I know that the highest item level is shown in the tool. But calling 960 (only 15500 players in EU have better gear, aka 1%) shitty is highly delusional.
    The dude you quoted IS delusional, 2 resets ago most ppl in several of the top 5 guilds wheren't even over 960.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcadeBit View Post
    Checking logs is the only thing that works in the first weaks, now you can simply check for numbers of clears. 960 is a shitty gs to be honest, if you are a active player.
    If its shitty ilvl so decent will be 965 and very good 970. How do i get 965 now with heroic m+15 weekly without rng procs? Ok if i got super lucky and i will drop 3rd leg, got nice weekly and like 2 titanforged maybe i will get it.

    Come on

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    welcome to legion titanforging removing any final links between ilvl and player skill, hype for bfa when titanforging continues
    item level and skill never coincided, let's be real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    I recommend shoulder surgery immediately... there's no way you didn't fuck it up with how hard you just reached.

  16. #456
    The only real way to screen people is through logs, if you see orange or purple, you should be fine.

    It's the basis of guild recruitment really, we check logs.

    Achievements can be bought.. consistant good logs cannot.

  17. #457
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    The dude you quoted IS delusional, 2 resets ago most ppl in several of the top 5 guilds wheren't even over 960.
    If you refer to wowprogress gear, 955 is the stuff people are wearing. The tool displays the max possible gear. We are on the 4th weak of m+, this means 2-4 960+ (with a bold + since this stuff TF like hell) items in the bag. Usually people have one argus HC item, which gives you a 955+ boost item as well. If your rest is full hc gear, you are already hitting the 960 pretty close.

    This doesn't even include the lucky high rolled 11 940+ items from previous m+ caches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vluffyvlaush View Post
    But calling 960 (only 15500 players in EU have better gear, aka 1%) shitty is highly delusional.

    There is a difference between ILvl extracted from logs/wowprogress/armory and max iLvl in the bags. At my prime between bags iLvl and what I was wearing, was 15 points.

    Lets be honest, the m+ cache is 50% of the time > 960, you have to include these in your calculation. That was I was pointing add, if you are an active player and got 4 15+ caches, you should hit the 960 pretty easy.

    Edit: And just for info: Equipping pantheon reduces sometimes your max iLvl, so be aware.
    Last edited by mmocc439c57469; 2017-12-27 at 01:52 PM.

  18. #458
    Deleted
    You just defined "out of touch with the vast majority of the population". I both envy and pity your for that perception of yours. Don't know which one more though.

  19. #459
    Actually the only ilvl worth talking about is equipped ilvl.

    Btw i just got declined from HC Argus (with 3 kills on char i qued with) because leader disliked legendaries i use xD There are sadly no better legendaries. I have even checked method and exorcus rdruid and they wear the same legendaries.

    This only proves pug raiding is also bad because raid leaders have very low knowedgle. Yea i also dont know best legendaries for every single spec but come on if i dont know it i can check it. This is not the first one situation of this type. Those "elite" pug groups are mainly "elite leader carry groups"

    Like i was on covens today to only watch "elite multikill curved leader" die in first 2 minutes doing 800k dps.

    Rly leaders checking logs and progress of every single player is not enough. I think i am going to check leaders xD

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster View Post
    The dude you quoted IS delusional, 2 resets ago most ppl in several of the top 5 guilds wheren't even over 960.
    Pretty much this. Method's World first kill two weeks ago was done with an average of 962 ilvl.

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