Out of control! Antorus normal be 945 and ahead of the curve Antorus or no invite

[kamuimac]

This game would of died out or at the very least withered years ago if they cut raiding from it. It is IMO one of the core features that seperates it from other MMOS

and yet if it wasnt for lfr it would be as niche activity as it was in TBC.

[Beerbadger]

I wouldn't say raiding in TBC was a niche activity. Higher level was certainly done by a smaller percentage of the player base, but raiding in general even just Karazhan was pretty popular.

[Twdft]

Nah. Remember back then you couldn't raid cross realm and had no dungeon browser. Just because trade chat was spammed all day long for Karazhan groups doesn't mean more than 10% of players actually raided.

[Heladys]

Is it time for a "if you don't like it make your own group" reply? I think it is, because it always is!

[david0925]

Is it time for a "if you don't like it make your own group" reply? I think it is, because it always is!

and it still wouldn't be wrong. If you're going to have a character that's behind the curve compared to everyone else that's applying you are going to need ways around that.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing "forcing" people into raiding nowadays is tier gear, and that's been acknowledged as a mistake. I am looking forward to the next expansion where choosing to do only dungeons will be a legitimate progression path.

Tier itself isn't a mistake. It just doesn't work well with Titanforging because of how powerful most tier bonuses are preventing you from using your TF gear even if it's 15-20 ilvls higher with ideal stats. Since TF is going to say, Tier has to leave in order for the game to remain rewarding.

Dungeon is still going to be inferior to mythic raiding since Azerite gear and weapons can't TF.

[Nefarious Tea]

Tier itself isn't a mistake. It just doesn't work well with Titanforging because of how powerful most tier bonuses are preventing you from using your TF gear even if it's 15-20 ilvls higher with ideal stats. Since TF is going to say, Tier has to leave in order for the game to remain rewarding.

Dungeon is still going to be inferior to mythic raiding since Azerite gear and weapons can't TF.

And in terms of effort required, TF is a hell of a lot easier than designing and testing tier bonuses.

[ydraw]

Dungeon is still going to be inferior to mythic raiding since Azerite gear and weapons can't TF.

Yes, it will still be inferior to mythic raiding. But will no longer be inferior to heroic raiding like it is now, where you're looking at a disparity of 20% or more at the same ilvl because of tier bonuses.