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  1. #1

    The balance of power between the Factions' races in BfA is even! :o

    Yes, I'm shocked too, but I've had a chance to catch up on all the stuff for Battle of Azeroth, and looked at the new allied races, some are really powerful in lore than others and whiles that sometimes seems a bit unfair, actually it balances overall if you factor in ALL the races and their rough numbers. Here is how it looks imo.:

    We have: [From the EU forums post]

    • The highborne (farondis/shen'dralar) the match for the nightborne,
    • The combination of the fewer numbered but more powerful void elves and not as powerful high elves being the match for the larger numbered blood elves (think of the extra power in the void elves making up for the lack of numbers.
    • The few Draenei and even fewer but more powerful Lightforged being the match for the far more numerous orcs - again the extra power of the lightforged making up for the lack of numbers.
    • Night elves balancing out the few Darkspears but the many more Zandalari
    • Humans balanced out by the Forsaken
    • Gnomes balanced out by the Goblins
    • Dwarves (with Dark Irons and Wildhammers) matched by Tauren (with Taunka and Highmountain - tho not actually playable, Taunka are in the horde as Wildhammers are in the alliance so not available yet as their own playable group)
    • Alliance Pandaren cancel out Horde Pandaren

    It's interesting how this has potentially worked out. Void elves and Lightforge are empowered by the power of the light and the void. The Alleria storyline and the quests in 7.3 show the void she wields and they access is really powerful, this puts the void elves above DHs/DKs and certainly above normal high/blood elves - same with Lightforged draenei over normal draenei. But their numbers are very few. Lore wise night elves and worgen are the other super races with the Well of eternity enhancement superior to the sunwell/nightwell and the curse of the worgen elevating them above humans to night elf level. However this is mitigated by few numbers and countered by the trolls and power of the Zandalari. While the highborne arcane advantage is cancelled out by the nightborne. The forsaken and humans are evenly matched, the forsaken are bound by a dark magic, but they have a downside of limbs falling off which is a bit crippling. The list goes on.

    Overall it actually is balanced but it's weird what's happening in wow.

    Alliance embracing dark powers like the void (void elves/s.priests), the fel (illidari)
    Horde getting tons more high civilization (kaldorei empire Suramar, Silvermoon, Zuldazaar) compared to LF Draenei, void elves and now night elves being homeless.
    Alliance getting more powerful races - that use to be the horde (orcs were empowered over humans due to demon blood, and traditionally appeared the stronger races, with plot handing alliance the victory.
    Horde have the more established lore races - use to be the alliance, but nightborne/highmountain/Zandalari have so much more lore than the Lightforged and the Void elves. in a reversal

    But the power is even overall, and the landmass is even too overalll altho horde may have the slight advantage as they have the Broken Isles + Kalimdor

    There is a lot of reversal going on it seems.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2017-12-05 at 10:38 PM.
    Raven what? Scrap that - that's yesterdays fad: I am the Voidsun

  2. #2
    I wouldn’t say the Forsaken are equal to the humans. The are vastly more humans. The Forsaken numbers keep dwindling and they still haven’t figured out how to increase their numbers effectively.

  3. #3
    I'm more paying attention to the fact the Horde has the Sunwell and, if it weren't for Thalyssra's wise decision, could have got the Nightwell, too.

    I'm not sure if the Alliance have a power source quite as good as the Sunwell.

  4. #4
    I wouldn't say the Highborne match the Nightborne...

    unless the scaling of diremaul was atrociously drawn down.

  5. #5
    I don't know how you can make these claims. "Powerful" is too vague a word. I.e., I GUESS void elves are strong, but only in certain types of magic - they're not druids or shamans. It's just an example, so don't take it too far; what I'm saying is that there are many kinds of power in Azeroth.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    The Alleria storyline and the quests in 7.3 show the void she wields and they access is really powerful, this puts the void elves above DHs/DKs and certainly above normal high/blood elves - same with Lightforged draenei over normal draenei.
    Lorewise DHs and especially DKs are stupidly OP (the price of it was really high for both, even more so for the latter), and having played through Alleria's storyline there was nothing that would have proven void elves more powerful than them. One could even question whether your regular void elves will be just as powerful as Alleria herself, but that's another matter. Certainly would need something more to prove VEs to be above those two.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Twen View Post
    Lorewise DHs and especially DKs are stupidly OP (the price of it was really high for both, even more so for the latter), and having played through Alleria's storyline there was nothing that would have proven void elves more powerful than them. One could even question whether your regular void elves will be just as powerful as Alleria herself, but that's another matter. Certainly would need something more to prove VEs to be above those two.
    Its' a fair point, but then the necromantic powers use are dark void based, and the void elves are the ones that are using an insane level of this power, this would put them above the DKs if they add this to their normal class power is what my thinking on it is. DHs i'm less certain of, afterall Sargeras was fighting the void with fel, however a lot of his demons use both shadow and fel, but they don't seem to wield the void in pure form - and it seems to be the thing that SArgeras was most afraid of. Fel is very destructive, but so is the void too - so it's hard to tell, DHs are the masters of fel, despite us only accessing their melee skills rather than their sorceror skils, but then even their melee strike is actually a spell as it's chaotic damage not physical damage... so it's hard to say. void elves would be class + void, while DH is just class, so while uncertain my guess is they are just a step higher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbacca View Post
    I wouldn’t say the Forsaken are equal to the humans. The are vastly more humans. The Forsaken numbers keep dwindling and they still haven’t figured out how to increase their numbers effectively.
    But sylvannas directly implies she has an unlimited army when they die, so she knows she will raise more But maybe you're right there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I wouldn't say the Highborne match the Nightborne...

    unless the scaling of diremaul was atrociously drawn down.
    Actually they may even exceed them. Dire Maul didn't have a nightwell to power it remember, it fell to ruin because the demon over millnenia eventually reversed teh power dynamic and the elves cared more about studying the arcane than looking after the city. Not because they weren't skilled at magic or were stuck in old magic or anything like that. The kaldorei empire level of magic 10k years ago was something else, today's world paled in comparison, they had and knew stuff which ahs never been recovered to an extent that only the highborne and nightborne would know, and the highborne and nightborne are the only ones in cities that endured after the sundering. Remember Dire Maul is not in total ruin, it is in ruins, but it's more like a delapidated oun cared for sort of way, with the power off.

    And the highborne unlike the nightborne had access t the outside world, and did face challenegs, they've re-engaged with society for much longer than the nightborne so they would most likely have an advantage over them. As for the FArondis Highborne, I would think they would be hte only ones who haven't made porogres in 10k years, hwoever they would be fully familiar and skilled in the knowledge they knew, and probalby learnt a few knew hthings, but inconsequential, whatevr they lack i'm sure the highborne from the shen'dralar would update them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I wouldn't say the Highborne match the Nightborne...

    unless the scaling of diremaul was atrociously drawn down.
    Actually they may even exceed them. Dire Maul didn't have a nightwell to power it remember, it fell to ruin because the demon over millnenia eventually reversed teh power dynamic and the elves cared more about studying the arcane than looking after the city. Not because they weren't skilled at magic or were stuck in old magic or anything like that. The kaldorei empire level of magic 10k years ago was something else, today's world paled in comparison, they had and knew stuff which ahs never been recovered to an extent that only the highborne and nightborne would know, and the highborne and nightborne are the only ones in cities that endured after the sundering. Remember Dire Maul is not in total ruin, it is in ruins, but it's more like a delapidated oun cared for sort of way, with the power off.

    And the highborne unlike the nightborne had access t the outside world, and did face challenegs, they've re-engaged with society for much longer than the nightborne so they would most likely have an advantage over them. As for the FArondis Highborne, I would think they would be hte only ones who haven't made porogres in 10k years, hwoever they would be fully familiar and skilled in the knowledge they knew, and probalby learnt a few knew hthings, but inconsequential, whatevr they lack i'm sure the highborne from the shen'dralar would update them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pawstruck View Post
    I don't know how you can make these claims. "Powerful" is too vague a word. I.e., I GUESS void elves are strong, but only in certain types of magic - they're not druids or shamans. It's just an example, so don't take it too far; what I'm saying is that there are many kinds of power in Azeroth.
    I can't really, it's like the who's more powerful argument, or who would win, Batman or Superman sort of argument, we just knos wtehy are enhanced so based on the description we know they are wileding incredible power, but they are quite new at it, and don't forget this is on top of the power they already wield in their base class and race, so the power of the high/blood elf + class + void. Makes them more like a super race. It's like the night elves who you could say are troll + class + well of eternity enhanced level of power adding to them. Or worgen who are human + power of the emereald dream/curse of the worgen infused into them. And void > emerald dream, surely as the light is as well. And base high/blood elf was always > base human.
    Raven what? Scrap that - that's yesterdays fad: I am the Voidsun

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Its' a fair point, but then the necromantic powers use are dark void based, and the void elves are the ones that are using an insane level of this power, this would put them above the DKs if they add this to their normal class power is what my thinking on it is.
    That doesn't sound right, canonical source for the bolded part? Regardless, DKs still seem to have more than that going for them with 3 different schools of power. Not to mention one of their biggest advantages; undeath. VEs (and most others) still have a living body, which is relatively easy to kill off or render nonfunctional. Meanwhile DKs with their undead bodies (plus self-sustaining blood powers on top of that) will give no shits about most forms of fatal damage and just keep coming like a truck. (Edit: Fixed the bolding.)

  9. #9
    Drop this nonsense, the alliance still has a lot more people.

  10. #10
    if you went by Lore alone, Stormwind could take on the whole Horde, let alone with all of the Alliance put together.

  11. #11
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azelas View Post
    if you went by Lore alone, Stormwind could take on the whole Horde, let alone with all of the Alliance put together.
    Yeah, I'm sure derpy footmen in cheap tinfoil armor can beat the whole Horde. Totally.

  12. #12
    OP is right, though I think it could be better summed up as simply saying that any given group or faction will only ever be as strong as they need to be for the sake of the scene being created.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Azelas View Post
    if you went by Lore alone, Stormwind could take on the whole Horde, let alone with all of the Alliance put together.
    Except, that's not lore... that's just conjecture. Unless you have facts to support that opinion.

  14. #14
    I'm not expecting a huge power disparity in BFA. The Alliance being the 'only super power' after MOP's ending never mattered, I don't think any of the allied races are in practice going to tip the scale in the grand scheme of things either.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbacca View Post
    I wouldn’t say the Forsaken are equal to the humans. The are vastly more humans. The Forsaken numbers keep dwindling and they still haven’t figured out how to increase their numbers effectively.
    The voiceline she gave in this video makes me feel like she wants to go after the Alliance for more Forsaken. "I will grow the ranks of the Forsaken one way or another."


  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Azelas View Post
    if you went by Lore alone, Stormwind could take on the whole Horde, let alone with all of the Alliance put together.
    I'd love to see them try, how on earth would they be able to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggit View Post
    OP is right, though I think it could be better summed up as simply saying that any given group or faction will only ever be as strong as they need to be for the sake of the scene being created.
    Truer words have never been said. For all those who don't believe, your failed night elf is the perfect example, need to be super strong for its back story, and when needed was super trashy weak. And we all know humans won WC2 because of plot machinations, there's no way they could match the horde.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    [*]The highborne (farondis/shen'dralar) the match for the nightborne,
    bahahaha those obsolete morons aren't even a match for a handful of blood elves much more the insanely adept Nightborne.
    [*]The combination of the fewer numbered but more powerful void elves and not as powerful high elves being the match for the larger numbered blood elves (think of the extra power in the void elves making up for the lack of numbers.
    There is no reason to think Umbric wouldn't get roasted like a chestnut by Rommath or any of his lackeys having a benefit of power over any given blood ef.
    [*]The few Draenei and even fewer but more powerful Lightforged being the match for the far more numerous orcs - again the extra power of the lightforged making up for the lack of numbers.
    again, where are you pulling the 'power scaling' from? What makes you think a Lightforged is stronger than any other Draenei, much more an Orc?
    [*]Night elves balancing out the few Darkspears but the many more Zandalari
    With Teldrassil destroyed and Night Elves curb stomped they have no power at all, they are just refugees now.
    [*]Humans balanced out by the Forsaken
    no, humans are 'balanced' by Orcs. always have been.
    [*]Gnomes balanced out by the Goblins
    Goblins have all of Azshara, gnomes have a radioactive pit.
    [*]Dwarves (with Dark Irons and Wildhammers) matched by Tauren (with Taunka and Highmountain - tho not actually playable, Taunka are in the horde as Wildhammers are in the alliance so not available yet as their own playable group)
    possibly the only comparison you've gotten somewhat right.
    [*]Alliance Pandaren cancel out Horde Pandaren
    pandas suck entirely.
    Lore wise night elves and worgen are the other super races with the Well of eternity enhancement superior to the sunwell/nightwell and the curse of the worgen elevating them above humans to night elf level.
    'Super races' aren't homeless refugees.

    There is a lot of reversal going on it seems.
    There's a lot of Horde expansion and Alliance fail going on. That's about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    Drop this nonsense, the alliance still has a lot more people.
    having an entire zone burned to the ground with its inhabitants in it = a lot less people. Even if they are 'ported away with magic' you have a massive logistical crisis that won't resolve itself. Also the Horde have gained two NATIONS in Highmountain and Suramar, three when u count Zandalar. Dark Irons don't seem like the family type, neither do Void Elves or the Lightforged for that matter. The Horde can repopulate faster and the Forsaken are expanded every time a human or elf is slain.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    Darkspear - just a small tribe.
    The darkspear, WAS a small tribe, long time ago, they are a big number now, since trolls breed like rabbits

    Bilgewater Cartel - another small "cartel".
    th cartel is not small, the guys who get out of kezan was small, but the cartel was all around the world joined the horde, thus, there is other cartel in the horde who i don't recall the name, also, goblins breed like rabbits too

    Mulgore Tauren - a tribe, not all tauren.
    well no? all tauren tribe are under the mulgore flag, thats why baine is high chieftain, this mean he rule over all tribes, including even the grimmtotem who sided with the horde
    Highmountain Tauren - again just a few very small tribes.
    you maybe missed the highmountain leveling, but no way they are just "small tribes"

    Blood Elves - Dying race.
    no more, but they are small in number indeed
    Forsaken - can't reproduce, another dying race.
    well they are dead, not dying, there are a lot of forsaken just because there are a lot of humans, easy to create

    Orcs - lost tons of people during the Siege of Orgrimmar.
    blizzard already stated only minor part of orcs sided wtih Garrosh, most of then from blackock and dragonmawn clan, who still are part of the horde, there are a tons of orcs still

    Nightborne - another dying breed, and most of them don't actually join the horde.
    you know what mean a dying race? cause they can breed, they have resources, a place to live and allies now, and sadly as far as i know most of then do joined the horde
    Zandalari - Don't know crap about their current situation.
    just a troll empire with continent on their own
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2017-12-07 at 01:19 AM.

  19. #19
    Alliance has orbital superiority. They can wipe out the horde by dropping rocks on them.

  20. #20
    The Nightborne are superior to the Highborne nowadays. We learn from quests in Azshara that the Highborne use spells that even the High/Blood Elves have outlawed hundreds of years prior. The Highborne, post-Sundering, also have had no well of power, but one singular demon to draw magic from - which wasn't even enough, so they started killing random Shen'dralar to compensate. That demon, as well, is now dead. Blood Elves drew from many demonic and magical sources after the Sunwell was destroyed, as well. The Shen'dralar couldn't even hold their entire city, losing one part of it to ogres, and another to satyrs.

    Sure, the Shen'dralar Highborne are knowledgeable. They have a huge library, and they were one of Azshara's most secretive orders. But, the elves of Suramar and Quel'thalas have not only had the Nightwell (now an Arcan'dor tree empowered by all of Suramar's ley lines) and the Sunwell (now empowered by a Naaru), but they were also able to expand upon their powers and knowledge for thousands of years unopposed. Magic is infused into their very being. The Highborne, in this regard, just can't compete, because we know they have stagnated over 10,000 years.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

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