Beta Key Giveaway Week 3: Winners have been selected!

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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Maarius's Avatar
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    Endgamers and Questers - both are right. Give both what they really want

    People are fighting in the forums about the current state of WoW questing.


    Some people, who have played the content repeatedly and probably have seen every zone from every angle, are annoyed that Blizzard gives mobs more health. Even if it takes about the same time to get to the cap... even if you can skip two expansions, it's a bad change for them.


    Then there is the other faction of players. The ones who enjoy the journey more than the endgame. Some of them might have only few characters on level cap, others just love to read and live the stories in the Warcraft world again. They are happy with the changes, because 1hitting mobs just breaks immersion considerably.


    Who is right. I say: both

    I think it's not a good idea that Blizzard tries to find a balance - how much health do the mobs get. How much damage they do. In the end they won't help either faction. Why?


    ...because the first faction - the people who know the content in and out and have done it too often, they basically don't want to do it AGAIN. 1shotting mobs makes it easier for them, but in the end it's just a compromise. With more levels in future expansion, it gets more annoying and more annoying to level the next character.


    My solution would be quite radical. I would give both factions what they REALLY want.


    1.) The Questers: give them a decent journey. Give them the experience they had with vanilla in terms of difficulty. Why do you think people want the classic servers back? Let them experience it here.


    2.) The Veterans who've seen everything: give them free (yes free, or through the achievementpoint system earned) character boosts. At least a boost to the beginning of the latest expansion. Haven't they earned it, spending years in the game?


    I think it would be a win-win situation.
    Last edited by Maarius; 2017-12-07 at 08:02 PM.


  2. #2
    I'm all for it.

  3. #3
    You obviously haven't played the PTR. Questing is very relevant again, and one-shotting mobs doesn't exist anymore.

  4. #4
    Blademaster Usandu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    You obviously haven't played the PTR. Questing is very relevant again, and one-shotting mobs doesn't exist anymore.
    You can my look up my posts and examples i given in other threads. One shot is still very real, even for raids and dungeons. Or perhaps i am just on this side that wants to feel the danger of aggroing more than 2 mobs

  5. #5
    Merely a Setback Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    People are fighting in the forums about the current state of WoW questing.


    Some people, who have played the content repeatedly and probably have seen every zone from every angle, are annoyed that Blizzard gives mobs more health. Even if it takes about the same time to get to the cap... even if you can skip two expansions, it's a bad change for them.


    Then there is the other faction of players. The ones who enjoy the journey more than the endgame. Some of them might have only few characters on level cap, others just love to read and live the stories in the Warcraft world again. They are happy with the changes, because 1hitting mobs just breaks immersion considerably.


    Who is right. I say: both




    I think it's not a good idea that Blizzard tries to find a balance - how much health do the mobs get. How much damage they do. In the end they won't help either faction. Why?


    ...because the first faction - the people who know the content in and out and have done it too often, they basically don't want to do it AGAIN. 1shotting mobs makes it easier for them, but in the end it's just a compromise. With more levels in future expansion, it gets more annoying and more annoying to level the next character.


    My solution would be quite radical. I would give both factions what they REALLY want.


    1.) The Questers: give them a decent journey. Give them the experience they had with vanilla in terms of difficulty. Why do you think people want the classic servers back? Let them experience it here.


    2.) The Veterans who've seen everything: give them free (yes free, or through the achievementpoint system earned) character boosts. At least a boost to the beginning of the latest expansion. Haven't they earned it, spending years in the game?


    I think it would be a win-win situation.
    As a veteran, I can't accept free boosts granted just because of laziness. Sorry but a major part of the game IS to level up and get ready for the end content.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    As a veteran, I can't accept free boosts granted just because of laziness. Sorry but a major part of the game IS to level up and get ready for the end content.
    I suggested boosts tied to achievement points as well. Laziness... when you've done the content 10+ times already? ehm...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    You obviously haven't played the PTR. Questing is very relevant again, and one-shotting mobs doesn't exist anymore.
    I have, and I've given feedback about it a few times already.

    here 2 examples:

    class: Warrior (Arms)
    race: Ork
    level: Lv.17
    zone: Ashenvale
    gear: 5 green Items (pants, shoes, bracers, girdle, 2-hand axe), nothing else
    enemy: Befouled Water Elemental lv.17 und lv.16
    time until enemy death:
    lv.17: 6 sec
    lv.16: 4-5 sec
    Skills used: Slam & Overpower
    time until player death:
    lv.17: 36 sec (autohits: á 32-38 damage)
    lv.16: 46 sec
    ______________________________________________________________________________
    class: Paladin
    race: Dwarf
    level: Lv.8
    zone: Dun Morogh
    gear: 7 white Items (back, chest, pants, shoes, gloves, girdle, 1-hand axe), nothing else
    enemy: Frostmane Warrior lv.9 und lv.8
    time until enemy death:
    lv.9: 12 sec
    lv.8: 8 sec
    Skills used: Judgement & Crusader Strike
    time untilplayer death:
    lv.9: 30 sec (autohits: je 16-18 damage)
    lv.8: 47 sec


  7. #7
    Dreadlord Noah37's Avatar
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    From a time efficiency standpoint, if you are looking to faceroll to max level there isn't that much reason to be questing anyways unless they are changing dungeon xp? I guess beyond 60 you need to do some questing then, but I'd (this has no data behind it, I haven't gone on the PTR) that the xp per quest scales with your level also, so I'd figure it's mostly a wash that would just feel longer due to kills taking more time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    There's nothing for casuals to do, beyond pretend they are raiders in LFR.

  8. #8
    Merely a Setback Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    I suggested boosts tied to achievement points as well. Laziness... when you've done the content 10+ times already? ehm...
    Again, as a veteran, I've done up till 110, and all raids on current - except Antorus, cba finding a team, about 3 times (An additional 13 times but without normal/HC raiding - followed with about 100 characters from 1 to 109 (and no, I am not bullshitting)). And I really don't think there should be a need to grant free boosts, if you wish to be having another alt, then I would suggest to get to work. Leveling as we speak, is a joke. As how the PTR feels, leveling isn't that of a challenge there either.

    Boosts shouldn't be a reward for so simple a thing, promotional is a different thing.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  9. #9
    Questing is a tough issue to solve in MMO's. If you make quests vague (which isn't a bad thing per se), you will get resentful players who feel compelled to seek out hand-holding in terms of add ons, databases, etc. If you make mobs in quests too difficult, you'll end up with zerg trains, thus sort of defeating the purpose in the first place. Even under typical circumstances, quests get a bit neutered when you have tons of folks in an area designed for a nearly solo experience in terms of mob density, danger, etc.

    With regards to how quick WoW leveling is (and always has been), it makes very little sense to say that a player is going to see and experience the majority of what an expansion offers within the first month or so of its existence, and then spend the next 12-24 months in the same relative handful of instances. Granted, WoW curbs this a bit with new areas being unlocked over time, but you still wind up with high repetition when you make a players initial progress so rapid.

    When it comes to alts, I dislike the idea of them on a certain level. MMO's work best when you, as an individual, are represented through an individual avatar, and allow that to reflect whatever persona you may wish to behave like... and that includes contributing what you're good at, and having to rely on other players for what you're not good at Having alts waters this down significantly, but that particular barn door was thrown open years and years ago. Maybe non-trinity games are better suited to that sort of thing.

    At this stage in the games life, I don't even think they should have a continual leveling process. BfA could easily be served by having the quest chains unlock optional content, and players not actually level up at all, or be forced into questing if they don't want. And if I want a metric shitload of questing, I'm going to simply play a single player title, where everything can be tailored to what I want rather than what I have to deal with on someone else's terms.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Usandu View Post
    You can my look up my posts and examples i given in other threads. One shot is still very real, even for raids and dungeons. Or perhaps i am just on this side that wants to feel the danger of aggroing more than 2 mobs
    Again, not on the current PTR. The new level scaling mechanics have drastically increased the difficulty and longevity of mobs, even with hierlooms and enchants/gems utilized. Also, aggroing more than 3 or 4 mobs is once again overpowering to average players, meaning that AOE grinding/farming is no longer optimal on PTR.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    You obviously haven't played the PTR. Questing is very relevant again, and one-shotting mobs doesn't exist anymore.
    That's a bad thing in my book. The faster it is the better for me. I've played this game long enough to get sick of leveling new toons to catch up to end game.

  12. #12
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    I just want account-wide rep, so I can level/reroll races whenever I feel like it.

    And I am not saying Legion's rep system is bad, it's one of the best, with the BoA catchup tokens and Nathrezim Tomes. It's older expansions that are super inconsistent on rep gains with little catch up outside of timewalking(doesn't cover all rep) or Pandaria's 2x rep.

  13. #13
    Immortal clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makatafinger View Post
    That's a bad thing in my book. The faster it is the better for me. I've played this game long enough to get sick of leveling new toons to catch up to end game.
    So why are you still leveling toons? I'm not even close to an alt-oholic and I have 2 110s and 4 100s. At some point when you level up your 16th toon, *that's on you*. No one needs that many max level toons. I can see a few, but past 4 or 5 I assume it's something a person is doing because they like alts and part of alts is leveling. Dislike leveling? Pay for a boost or use the one per expansion.

    What I'd like to see, though, are partial boosts. Say $10 per 15 levels. that way if someone hits a stretch where they just hate the upcoming zones they can pay a nominal fee and skip past them.
    Last edited by clevin; 2017-12-06 at 10:47 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I can see a few, but past 4 or 5 I assume it's something a person is doing because they like alts and part of alts is leveling.
    Game has 12 classes, so past 4-5 is easily imaginable. Especially with Legion-class-unique content.

    Now I can even see 12 classes per-faction as a further step-up.

    But the logic of 50-character and asking for more is an entire different story/motivation.
    Last edited by Teri; 2017-12-06 at 10:51 PM.

  15. #15
    Titan Aeula's Avatar
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    And those of us in between (And new players) have to suffer with a painful level experience or skipping it all. Which isn't what we want.
    Blood Elves are basically High Elves. Slightly different eye color and backstory, but if you want to be a light skinned elf, that is basically a Blood Elf. Giving that to the Alliance would blur the line between factions.-Ion Hazzikostas: Game Director for World of Warcraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionknight View Post
    some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.

  16. #16
    Immortal clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Game has 12 classes, so past 4-5 is easily imaginable. Especially with Legion-class-unique content.

    Now I can even see 12 classes per-faction as a further step-up.

    But the logic of 50-character and asking for more is an entire different story/motivation.
    Just because the game HAS 12 classes does not mean you need all of them at max level. IF you choose to do that, that's on you as the player. I get wanting some variety... I rolled a rogue at first, then wanted some ranged DPS and heals, so a priest. Then a hunter that I did casually at the end of LK and liked so I raided with it until I decided a druid would be a fun project. Aside from a boosted 'lock and mage (expansion boosts, not paid) that's it. I could do any role I want to with those... sure I could add more but if I did... that's my choice.
    Last edited by clevin; 2017-12-06 at 11:09 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Just because the game HAS 12 classes does not mean you need all of them at max level. IF you choose to do that, that's on you as the player.
    Of course ultimately it comes down to the player.

  18. #18
    Immortal clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teri View Post
    Of course ultimately it comes down to the player.
    And it's on them to level. It's not on the game to coddle them just because they want to level their 15th character.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Makatafinger View Post
    That's a bad thing in my book. The faster it is the better for me. I've played this game long enough to get sick of leveling new toons to catch up to end game.
    Leveling is still roughly the same speed. Mobs are harder, but they always offer on-level experience, now. The same goes for quests. It's slightly slower, but close to the same speed from 1-100 as current live. It's just more engaging from a gameplay perspective. Think of it as a quality over quantity concept in comparison.

  20. #20
    First of all, nothing should stand in the way of improving game play aspect of previous expansion.

    So I really agree that if you really hate leveling in old content, and 100% believe that old content is pointless regardless of game play improvement, then Blizz should just give you boost based on achieve or gold or whatever so the low level game play aspect won't get destroy by your collective opinion, like "I hate it, it is longer, I just hate it, if it takes longer than I hate it, no amount of game play improvement could change my mind".

    What I really disagree is that people on one hand openly declare that old content "is a joke anyway", and on the other hand forcing people to "earn it". This is ridiculous, why would you demand people play a sub par part of the game that even you call it a joke. Maybe that new player would just un-sub the game after their monthly subscription expired because all they see leveling up is a joke?
    Last edited by gobio; 2017-12-07 at 02:32 AM.

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