Endgamers and Questers - both are right. Give both what they really want

[Torrasque]

Game has 12 classes, so past 4-5 is easily imaginable. Especially with Legion-class-unique content.

Now I can even see 12 classes per-faction as a further step-up.

But the logic of 50-character and asking for more is an entire different story/motivation.

What's the point of having shared rep, especially for older expansions, when considering player power from a alt perspective? These days, rep is easy to obtain, it's to the point where they've added paragon rep, simply to keep it still relevant since it becomes antedated so quickly as an endgame mechanic.

[Spazlord]

I have no regard or sympathy with folks who want to go straight to end game. If you want that, go play some other game. I'm sick of scrubs levelling a billion crap toons to max just so they can fill my groups with their toxic entitlement for free purpz and go go rush rush BS. They are a blight on the game and the sooner we take measures to erase them from reality the better. Bring on Classic xD

In any case the new changes are not the purge I'm looking for, they merely alter the game from a 1 shot zerg for marginal XP to a more engaging experience with better XP. Levelling is still going to be brain dead easy but at least I will be awake while it happens.

Take your free boost idea, do a 360, and walk away.

[Maarius]

Take your free boost idea, do a 360, and walk away.

you mean a 180? ^^

[gaymer77]

So why are you still leveling toons? I'm not even close to an alt-oholic and I have 2 110s and 4 100s. At some point when you level up your 16th toon, *that's on you*. No one needs that many max level toons. I can see a few, but past 4 or 5 I assume it's something a person is doing because they like alts and part of alts is leveling. Dislike leveling? Pay for a boost or use the one per expansion.

What I'd like to see, though, are partial boosts. Say $10 per 15 levels. that way if someone hits a stretch where they just hate the upcoming zones they can pay a nominal fee and skip past them.

You do realize there are 12 classes in the game and each play a little different than the other. Some classes are weaker than others in terms of the role you want to play vs the spec/role of another class. Some people like being able to pick a class to play at certain times over another class. Then you factor in the whole 2 factions with the same classes and you could easily have a total of 24 toons if you just did 1 class per faction on 2 different servers (since there are character caps on a server). Others, like myself, have been playing this game long enough that over the years they have accumulated numerous alts in their spare time that they just have a lot of alts to play. I have 24 lvl 100-110 characters across 2 servers and about 10 others under 60 and have deleted probably another 10 toons over the years that were at the time max level for various reasons. Your argument about liking the leveling process is wrong. Just because you have another character doesn't mean you enjoy leveling it up.

[Deleted]

You do realize there are 12 classes in the game and each play a little different than the other. Some classes are weaker than others in terms of the role you want to play vs the spec/role of another class. Some people like being able to pick a class to play at certain times over another class. Then you factor in the whole 2 factions with the same classes and you could easily have a total of 24 toons if you just did 1 class per faction on 2 different servers (since there are character caps on a server). Others, like myself, have been playing this game long enough that over the years they have accumulated numerous alts in their spare time that they just have a lot of alts to play. I have 24 lvl 100-110 characters across 2 servers and about 10 others under 60 and have deleted probably another 10 toons over the years that were at the time max level for various reasons. Your argument about liking the leveling process is wrong. Just because you have another character doesn't mean you enjoy leveling it up.

I play since the end of 2005. I already have deleted a dozen of characters, and when BfA hits, I will delete some more to get at least some of the new races. Then I will have reached the limit of 50 characters per account.

This is very easy if you play this game not only as action and raid simulator, but also for RP purposes. Then, not only faction and class matter, but also gender and race. A Troll priest is a different thing than a Forsaken priest, even if you play both mainly in shadow spec. Every character gets a different story.

And yes, I value questing a lot. I always complete loremaster achievements on my main, and repeat my favorite storylines on alts (like the 1st part of the Suramar campaign, I did this with 6 characters, and will probably do some more). But I am not fixated on the "dangerous" quest experience. You should not die when you go questing and do one-person quest and pull only one normal mob after another, except when you do some really dumb shit. If you want challenge, do 3 or 5 man quests on your own, pull more mobs, or strip down on gear (ironman challenge sais hello). Some people maybe only learn when they are under stress, but others do not.

Anyway, Vanilla questing was only hard when you were a noob. My first character has been dying a lot until I have figured out how to play the class. Some alts later, leveling a warlock, I could take on an elite and a bunch of normal adds all by myself with good use of CC, tank pet, and self-heal, at about level 30 (and I don't think that my gear was that good back then).

Questing and world content are for all, not only the pseudo-elite who is bored when mobs are below a world boss difficulty. And it's completely sufficient to implement scaling of content.

[Teri]

What's the point of having shared rep, especially for older expansions, when considering player power from a alt perspective? These days, rep is easy to obtain, it's to the point where they've added paragon rep, simply to keep it still relevant since it becomes antedated so quickly as an endgame mechanic.

Adding allied races, which are motivated to level from 20-110, basicly resets rep if you want to play it. Who likes going back to old expansions?

Legion rep is easy, other expansions are still a pain in the *** when timewalking rep tokens aren't available for all reps.

Toys/Transmog being restricted by rep is stupid. Why can I ride an exalted mount on all my characters, but not transmog/toys?

And then there are profession recipes rep-gated.

You don't tell me it's fun to re-grind the same rep many times.

Right now it's just a way to sell extra race-changes since people don't like to lose progress.

[Qnubi]

The solution doesn't need to be black & white. In fact, giving we have amazing scaling technology Blizzard should be able to put in a NPC that you can talk to to enable whatever level experience you want. Normal (retail), hard (PTR) and very hard (twice as hard as current PTR). With this simple change people would be able to play however they wish to experience the game.

Very hard you would occasionally encounter mobs that are 2-3 lvl above you as well as even more HP and Damage output.

I am actually in both camps, I love hard leveling content, but sometimes I want to rush to endgame when a particular class/spec sparks my interest. Sometimes I want to reroll on a new server slowly, sometimes I find a guild on a different server and need a new character asap. So, just give us the options we deserve to have.

[Peacemoon]

Unfortunately this won’t work because people aren’t stupid and will always take short cuts if they are available. This is why flying is so contentious and why ‘just use ground mounts’ isn’t a reasonable response. If you give people free boosts you might as well delete old content.

[Maarius]

Blizzard should be able to put in a NPC that you can talk to to enable whatever level experience you want. Normal (retail), hard (PTR) and very hard (twice as hard as current PTR). With this simple change people would be able to play however they wish to experience the game.

Very hard you would occasionally encounter mobs that are 2-3 lvl above you as well as even more HP and Damage output.

I really love that idea, but you have the following in mind:

1.) if it's phased, it splits the playerbase. The world would feel much emptier. They've once said that they won't do that.
2.) if not, then I'm not sure if you can do this in a multiplayer game... with having two players of two/three different settings meeting each other at a group of mobs.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately this won’t work because people aren’t stupid and will always take short cuts if they are available. This is why flying is so contentious and why ‘just use ground mounts’ isn’t a reasonable response. If you give people free boosts you might as well delete old content.

...but I mostly only use ground mounts, and it's really fun and immersing. I at least have the option and it's in my hands to alter my experience. I don't care if others play the game on easy mode setting when I get my challenge. It's not a race.

[Makatafinger]

So why are you still leveling toons? I'm not even close to an alt-oholic and I have 2 110s and 4 100s. At some point when you level up your 16th toon, *that's on you*. No one needs that many max level toons. I can see a few, but past 4 or 5 I assume it's something a person is doing because they like alts and part of alts is leveling. Dislike leveling? Pay for a boost or use the one per expansion.

Because I want to experience class specific content. Why should I pay money for a boost? Monthly fee is already too expensive for me since 1 Euro = 4.55 Lira (Turkish currency) I want to play Legion content as fast as possible. I have 4 lvl 110 toons and rest of my toons are around lvl 90 since i hate the WoD content I give up at that point and continue on my other toons.

[Nihilan]

Some people are so fucking selfish. "Boo hoo, i think leveling is too easy so Blizzard needs to change it for everyone. Now im going to throw a tantrum until senpai notices me."

I dont give a shit if you enjoy leveling. I have leveled every class to 110 this expansion, including three fresh 1-110s. Not because i enjoy leveling, i dont, its fucking tedious, but because i want those chars at max level. Leveling is something in the way of getting to content that i care about. Stop trying to change how others play the game because YOU want things to be different for YOU. Especially for something so utterly transitory as leveling.

[Not aimed at OP, just ranting in general. I agree that there should exist more options, though i dont agree with free char boosts.]

[owbu]

Unfortunately this won’t work because people aren’t stupid and will always take short cuts if they are available. This is why flying is so contentious and why ‘just use ground mounts’ isn’t a reasonable response. If you give people free boosts you might as well delete old content.

Just tie some minor rewards, like they did with the new races, to doing it the hard way and then everyone who hates leveling can skip it, while people who like leveling dont feel like they are having fun wrong.
If blizzard desperatly needs the money from level boosts, they can make the free one get you to current xpac - 30 levels instead of just -10. They just need to adress, that everytime they add an xpac, they make the leveling experience worse for both people who hate leveling and who like leveling.

[Torrasque]

Adding allied races, which are motivated to level from 20-110, basicly resets rep if you want to play it. Who likes going back to old expansions?

Legion rep is easy, other expansions are still a pain in the *** when timewalking rep tokens aren't available for all reps.

Toys/Transmog being restricted by rep is stupid. Why can I ride an exalted mount on all my characters, but not transmog/toys?

And then there are profession recipes rep-gated.

You don't tell me it's fun to re-grind the same rep many times.

Right now it's just a way to sell extra race-changes since people don't like to lose progress.

Again though, why do you need it? It is virtually useless at endgame and offer little more than completionistic feels, ticking it off as complete, even though little to nothing actually happens.

[Heladys]

Without commenting upon the topic of the thread itself, this image and similar memes are problematic. They imply that meaning is simply a matter of perspective which is a feel-good kumbaya sort of thing, but they are wrong. When that digit (whether it is a 6 or a 9) was created, the creator was expressing a particular intent one way or the other. That intent persists. People ascribing new meaning onto the thing based upon their after-the-fact context are wrong.

[hyphnos]

Unfortunately this won’t work because people aren’t stupid and will always take short cuts if they are available. This is why flying is so contentious and why ‘just use ground mounts’ isn’t a reasonable response. If you give people free boosts you might as well delete old content.

Yeah this is true if you believe that literally no one who says they like the process of levelling, despite the number of people on here clamoring for making it take longer.

This argument presumes to know the mind of other players and that no one will ever choose something they like over expedience. This is patently false and mainly used by people to justify making everything manditorily tedious so that people will engage in some mythically morally superior way of sitting on their ass playing a video game.

It is in fact a perfectly reasonable response to say "use ground mounts if you like them" and to suggest otherwise simply means that you correctly believe that playing on the ground isn't any more enjoyable than playing with flight. If it were, then people wouldn't do it and it wouldn't have to be forced down their throats like the player metric boosting medicine that it actually is.

People who are incapable of doing what they enjoy shouldn't be coddled by making everyone else do it their way. If they can't make the choice they claim to enjoy on their own it is not up to Blizzard to make them do it and you can bet your ass that removing flight has a lot more to do with increasing playtime than it does with any concern on Blizzard's part to make the game more enjoyable for people who think that there is some magical difference with world content that makes it "better" on the ground but not enough better that anyone would choose it over flying.

[gaymer77]

I play since the end of 2005. I already have deleted a dozen of characters, and when BfA hits, I will delete some more to get at least some of the new races. Then I will have reached the limit of 50 characters per account.

This is very easy if you play this game not only as action and raid simulator, but also for RP purposes. Then, not only faction and class matter, but also gender and race. A Troll priest is a different thing than a Forsaken priest, even if you play both mainly in shadow spec. Every character gets a different story.

And yes, I value questing a lot. I always complete loremaster achievements on my main, and repeat my favorite storylines on alts (like the 1st part of the Suramar campaign, I did this with 6 characters, and will probably do some more). But I am not fixated on the "dangerous" quest experience. You should not die when you go questing and do one-person quest and pull only one normal mob after another, except when you do some really dumb shit. If you want challenge, do 3 or 5 man quests on your own, pull more mobs, or strip down on gear (ironman challenge sais hello). Some people maybe only learn when they are under stress, but others do not.

Anyway, Vanilla questing was only hard when you were a noob. My first character has been dying a lot until I have figured out how to play the class. Some alts later, leveling a warlock, I could take on an elite and a bunch of normal adds all by myself with good use of CC, tank pet, and self-heal, at about level 30 (and I don't think that my gear was that good back then).

Questing and world content are for all, not only the pseudo-elite who is bored when mobs are below a world boss difficulty. And it's completely sufficient to implement scaling of content.

I'm not devalueing the choice to level different alts or play different classes/races and you actually just proved the point I was making. For @clevin to say that nobody needs 16 max level toons is just an ignorant statement. People have a lot of max level characters for various reasons and they're not always (or honestly its not even the majority) because they enjoy questing or even leveling up. They have them for numerous reasons which typically are playing different classes/faction over many years and just accumulated various alts.

[Pull My Finger]

No. At some point, it must be clear what the game is. There is no sense in contradicting your own design.

I also don't see why anyone who doesn't want to level another toon because they've done it so much should get a free boost. If you've done it so much, don't you already have all the toons you need? What is this even about? Nobody is being forced to level another character.

If you don't enjoy the game, don't play the game!

[Derilore]

See, I don't necessarily see why the lvl cap needs to increase past say 99 or 100.

Reason being Ilvl scaling is the new level system. That and AP which is basically continuing into BFA.

Shrinking the player level cap along with the pvp template systems creates more active players to play with for most content.

With world pvp being a focus in BFA i'd expect more balance. Its much easier to balance with a lower max cap.

item level will still be king for raiders.

New content as always gives great ilvl, old max level content would feel like 2 raid tiers ago vs useless drops barring xmogs & mounts.

Players base will remain more stable.

"Yay a new expansion, now i get to go up 10 more levels!" that never really has been a selling point.

People want new zones, new raids, new BG's.

The hardcore raiders like to jump into content, get max ilvl.

The pvpers get the new BG's, new arena comps & combos.

The casuals can pretty much do whatever they are into.

[Cathbadh]

I've always been fine with grinding and questing on my main. But when it comes to alts I generally want to just get to the end of road and hurry up and gear them so I can raid a second or third time a week or so that I have more crafters in my army.

My solution would be a stacking XP buff that could be toggled off for those who don't want it. Level up a toon and get x% xp on all alts. Get a second toon to max and get an additional x%, and so on so that the deeper you go the faster it is. Maybe throw in a bonus y% in zones where you've earned Loremaster on a character.

[Maarius]

I love how Guildwars 2 takles this problem:

There are XP tomes which are rewards for doing specific content. Each let's you skip a level (or more), while those are accountbound. These could be rewards for raids, dungeons and battlegrounds so that people who enjoy doing this content instead of questing would get more of those and could bring up their next characters much faster.

This and/or getting all quests of a storyline in a map could reward you with such a tome.

Example:
Completing the main story quests of Stonetalon Mountains rewards you with an accountbound +5 level tome. This tome enables any one of your characters to gain 5 levels.