What is the logic behind saying Piracy is stealing?

[Airlick]

At worst it's copying, not stealing.

It really doesn't matter how you want to twist the meaning of the words, at the core of things - it's stealing.

Everyone torrents here. Pretty sure the President has a cracked windows at home.


You know what's theft? Paying 60$ for a game when the minimum salary's under 400$ a month.

Again, noone's forcing you to blow 20% of your income on a single game. Buy cheaper ones if you can't afford the more expensive ones. You're not entitled to steal a Ferrari when you can only afford a Toyota.

[Deleted]

Back in the day when everyone copied VHS movies on their VHS players we called it copying because that is what it was. We didn't steal the movies we rented. Most people i knew taped TV show and copied movies they had rented. Probably the same people who later called copyright infringement and copying theft.

[melodramocracy]

Piracy bypasses the income the content creator would otherwise acquire from your purchase. That's how it is theft.

Yes, I know, you pirate and then buy all your stuff, etc. The excuse list is a mile and a half long, and all of it is a yawnfest.

I consider it a shitty practice, though I do justify it in a few use cases. One being watching televised sporting events. Here, I'm more than willing to pay for a season pass, but with no blackouts. Since that apparently cannot be delivered, I'll pay nothing and use alternative means to watch.

Hypocritical? Absolutely. I'm a very willing customer for a product that providers refuse to supply on my terms, so we don't have a deal.

[Bigbazz]

From the WoW perspective, they private server people are very much stealing something that they are not allowed to have (The server info). Playing on the servers isn't illegal, but owning/running the servers is.

That isn't how private servers work though, they haven't stolen anything. They have developed their own code that attempts to emulate what the original servers did, so on their end they aren't hosting any copyrighted material they are simply hosting self developed server tech that communicates with the client. The copyrighted material is the game client on the user end which is sending information to the server.

Of course the server allows the game to run, providing a service for copyrighted material but the service providers are using all their own code. It's closer to the emulation world, the game software will run on the emulation software but the emulation software is developed from the ground up.

[I Push Buttons]

At worst it's copying, not stealing.

Its stealing.

The "I wouldn't have bought it so its not a lost sale" is bullshit. The mere act of acquiring it illustrates it has value to you. If it had no value/was not worth your time, you would not acquire it.

It not being worth the asking price to you isn't a free pass to pirate it.

You people rationalize it by "its just a copy, we aren't physically stealing anything"... Its the same thing. If you steal a TV from a store, you are denying the return on their investment in that TV. The same holds true for a digital item, by freely copying it, you are denying them the return on their investment in that item.

[pateuvasiliu]

So let me ask you this.

If someone hacks your computer.. and gets access to all your passwords and everything. Would you not consider your information 'stolen'? Is that not a concern to you?


Nothing, technically. Which is why there are technically laws about letting other people watch it in some places, as they didn't pay for it. Furthermore, watching it on your friend's TV still gets them money. Torrenting does not.

It gets them the payment of ONE cable TV.

Which the one who uploads the torrent also paid for.

So it's just a difference of magnitude, I can't call over 10000 people to watch it ( well I could, but w/e ) but I can do that with a torrent. They get the same money, ONE subscription.

As for passwords, not a good example. My passwords can be used to cause me loss. Me not paying to watch Game of Thrones causes no loss.

[Deleted]

It really doesn't matter how you want to twist the meaning of the words, at the core of things - it's stealing.

So would you characterize taping a tv show or copying a rented VHS tape as stealing?

[Molis]

The year 2002 just called they want Napster back.

Anything I say you will move the goalposts to make yourself feel better about stealing.

[pateuvasiliu]

Its stealing.

The "I wouldn't have bought it so its not a lost sale" is bullshit. The mere act of acquiring it illustrates it has value to you. If it had no value/was not worth your time, you would not acquire it.

It not being worth the asking price to you isn't a free pass to pirate it.

You people rationalize it by "its just a copy, we aren't physically stealing anything"... Its the same thing. If you steal a TV from a store, you are denying the return on their investment in that TV. The same holds true for a digital item, by freely copying it, you are denying them the return on their investment in that item.

That's bullshit. The value is 0, as I wouldn't pay anything for it.

Piracy bypasses the income the content creator would otherwise acquire from your purchase. That's how it is theft.

He wouldn't get anything at all.

[Endus]

You can't call it "theft" or "stealing" because both of those involve taking something. Piracy is about making something, without permission. It's the equivalent of using Ford's design info to build a Mustang from scrap, in your garage. You didn't steal a Mustang from anyone. You provided the parts and labor to produce that Mustang.

The reason it gets called "stealing" or "theft" is basically alarmism by content producers, to protect their own bottom lines by trying to make it out to be more scandalous than it is. Because the "parts and labor" to produce a copy of electronic media is so cheap and easy as to basically be free to anyone with a PC.

And no, the labor going into producing that content doesn't factor in; that's equivalent to the design process of the Mustang, which created the design info you didn't have a right to use. But using it to make an item is a separate thing.

Note that this stance stops looking like a justification if said guy starts selling his Mustangs for profit. I'm not defending the illegal distribution angle of "piracy". Just that making a copy of a CD for personal use really isn't comparable to stealing a physical CD from a music store.

Same logic that will get you thrown out of a cinema if you don't have a ticket, even if there is empty seats that hasn't been bought.

That's still not "theft", though. You don't have any right to be on that property, which is why the owner can remove you, but that's about it. Nobody goes to jail for that.

[Drungan]

and if everyone pirate ......no money no new shows.

even older things ( shows / music etc. ) generate some money for whoever makes it.

Like it or not, when you buy anything you support the people making it *but i might not buy it if price is xx* well then you wait for a sale and buy it for less, yes that means you might get spoiled or the content ... that is the price you pay extra for waiting.

For games ... most games goes on sale at some point, * BUT I WANT IT NOW ! * well then you pay full price, even if you do not like the company that makes it .... still pays for it being made.

is it direct stealing ... no but you mention stealing a car is not the same .... no, but you do not *loan* a car without permission ofc you was going to put it back where you found it .... still not yours.

[melodramocracy]

Your not taking any thing they still have it.

Tell an electrician next time he comes to your house that you're only paying for parts, not labor.

Better yet, go to a concert that you know hasn't sold out, and insist that you get in for free. That music is still being played whether you paid for a ticket or not.

[pateuvasiliu]

The year 2002 just called they want Napster back.

Anything I say you will move the goalposts to make yourself feel better about stealing.

It's not stealing, though.
@Airlick

It really doesn't matter how you want to twist the meaning of the words, at the core of things - it's stealing.

No it's not. And laws work differently around the world. You Americans might see it as stealing, but it could very well be perfectly legal here.

[therealstegblob]

In most legal/IP law circles, preventing a potential sale is considered IP theft.

While you aren't physically taking something from them, you are taking their revenue (or potential revenue). Just because YOU can't get it in your area, doesn't mean someone else isn't, and if they can get it, and pirate it, they're still stealing money, effectively. Your case doesn't make it not true.

From the WoW perspective, they private server people are very much stealing something that they are not allowed to have (The server info). Playing on the servers isn't illegal, but owning/running the servers is.

And again, it isn't a case of your anecdotal experience. There are plenty of people who COULD play wow, but dont want to pay for it, so they play on private servers. That's very much taking revenue as well. It's just a matter of protecting the IP.

Further than this, a private server is also a violation of copyright because you're stealing copyrighted assets (art, graphics, sound, etc) that are meant to be paid for, so you're essentially 'stealing' the assets Blizzard wanted you to pay for.

[Deleted]

Everyone torrents here. Pretty sure the President has a cracked windows at home.

You know what's theft? Paying 60$ for a game when the minimum salary's under 400$ a month.

That still doesn't mean that it isn't using a product without paying the proper dues, which I will note again can be punished harsher than stealing it, so it is not the preferable road to go down in this regard.

I also can't buy a yacht on my salary, doesn't mean that it is theft.

[pateuvasiliu]

You can't call it "theft" or "stealing" because both of those involve taking something. Piracy is about making something, without permission. It's the equivalent of using Ford's design info to build a Mustang from scrap, in your garage. You didn't steal a Mustang from anyone. You provided the parts and labor to produce that Mustang.

The reason it gets called "stealing" or "theft" is basically alarmism by content producers, to protect their own bottom lines by trying to make it out to be more scandalous than it is. Because the "parts and labor" to produce a copy of electronic media is so cheap and easy as to basically be free to anyone with a PC.

And no, the labor going into producing that content doesn't factor in; that's equivalent to the design process of the Mustang, which created the design info you didn't have a right to use. But using it to make an item is a separate thing.

Note that this stance stops looking like a justification if said guy starts selling his Mustangs for profit. I'm not defending the illegal distribution angle of "piracy". Just that making a copy of a CD for personal use really isn't comparable to stealing a physical CD from a music store.



That's still not "theft", though. You don't have any right to be on that property, which is why the owner can remove you, but that's about it. Nobody goes to jail for that.

I definitely agree with this and it's how it works in commerce, too. You don't usually get in trouble for copying someone else's idea until you start selling it for profit... which doesn't happen, as far as I know.

WoW Private servers ( decent ones at least ) are self funded and torrent sites get money from ads.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I read it, it's the same old shit every time. People want to try and justify shitty actions.

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And yet, they still took something.

Stealing is taking something from some one without there primission. You can’t take something from some one if they still have it so it’s not steeling.

Not saying it’s moral but it’s not the same as stealing.

[Deleted]

That's still not "theft", though. You don't have any right to be on that property, which is why the owner can remove you, but that's about it. Nobody goes to jail for that.

I was more referencing the point of gaining something with out paying for it. Let's not pretend that OP is exactly trying to advocate for the rebranding the immoral act of piracy.

[pateuvasiliu]

That still doesn't mean that it isn't using a product without paying the proper dues, which I will note again can be punished harsher than stealing it, so it is not the preferable road to go down in this regard.

I also can't buy a yacht on my salary, doesn't mean that it is theft.

If you found a way to copy it without damaging the one you're copying it wouldn't be theft.

That still doesn't mean that it isn't using a product without paying the proper dues

If it's not illegal over here I only have your laws to go by and I don't really care about your laws.

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I was more referencing the point of gaining something with out paying for it. Let's not pretend that OP is exactly trying to advocate for the rebranding the immoral act of piracy.

I wasn't aware there was an universal consensus on morality. Most people I know pirate. You americans aren't able to do that as much because your ISPs spy on what you download and send you warnings.

Sounds like some of you are just mad you can't do it more and seek to tell yourselves that you have some sort of moral highground, which you don't.

[Machismo]

Stealing is taking something from some one without there primission. You can’t take something from some one if they still have it so it’s not steeling.

Not saying it’s moral but it’s not the same as stealing.

I didn't say it was stealing, I said they were taking something. In the end, the result is the same, regardless of the terminology you want to use. And yes, it makes you a shitty human being to do it.