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  1. #1

    Remember when Genn Greymane didn't watch the Horde cinematic for the Broken Shore?

    Unless you are one of the few that never played Horde side, literally the whole reason for Horde/Ally conflict in Legion was based on a misunderstanding, yet it's one of the main reasons cited at Blizzcon for why there is conflict between the factions in BFA.

    I would say the odds of Teldrassil burning being any different are slim to none at all.

    But let's not let that stop people from taking unconfirmed rumors and baseless speculation as gospel.

  2. #2
    Grudges happen. Tatars were supposed to guard the Ottoman flank during the second siege of Vienna, they couldn't reach the Ottomans in time however to warn them about the Polish, as they were too busy saving what little force they had left from a massacre. Didn't stop the Ottomans from hating their guts for it and revoking their autonomy, which led to enmity and Tatar raids into Ottoman territory.

    The Alliance leaders know about the events of the broken shore, and they are still bitter about something. Could be assumed incompetence, could be any reason that can warrant claims of betrayal. They lost their king. History is full of examples of this.

    In short, people are by nature political. Politics is complicated.

  3. #3
    Misunderstanding or not, the end result is that Varian died because Horde retreated.

  4. #4
    Also, he didn't watch the alliance cinematic, where a giant robot fell from the sky and crushed everyone who had been below.
    basically all the alliance army, their leader, himself and varian.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by powerword-shawarma View Post
    Misunderstanding or not, the end result is that Varian died because Horde retreated.
    That's not remotely accurate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Also, he didn't watch the alliance cinematic, where a giant robot fell from the sky and crushed everyone who had been below.
    basically all the alliance army, their leader, himself and varian.
    Right, that too.

    My point is people that play wow tend to treat unsubstantiated rumors as facts.

    Genn is crazy, for sure 100%. And it's just hilarious how people based on nothing at all just assume Sylvannas personally destroys Teldrassil and that it sparks the new war, they also tend to be the same people that think Genn actually has a reason beyond his son dying to have personal grudge against Sylvannas.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-12-07 at 09:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by powerword-shawarma View Post
    Misunderstanding or not, the end result is that Varian died because Horde retreated.
    Varian died because Varian didn't retreat when a retreat was sounded because both armies were in the middle of a trap.

    The Legion deceived the Alliance and Horde about the numbers of their forces (see rogue class quest, false intel), and lured them to the Broken Shore to wipe out all the leaders of the Horde and Alliance in one fel (heh heh) swoop.

    This plan only failed because the Horde went "oh dang shit's fucked, YO EVERYONE LEAVE."

    Had Sylvanas /not/ sounded the retreat, then /everyone/ on the Broken Shore would have died, particularly the entire Alliance army when that giant fel reaver landed where their heads would have been.

    The end result is that Varian died because he chose to stay behind, and Genn, Gelbin, and the rest of the Alliance forces lived because the Horde forced them to pull back out of a trap.

  7. #7
    What I find the most interesting is that this is that you (and, to be fair, most others) have an issue with the "misunderstanding" and the retreat/stay and fight options - I personally think that the entire scenario is ridiculous. We're expected to believe that the Horde and Alliance work together in a tightly coordinated assault on the Legion, but haven't worked out a way to get a message across to each other? That there's literally no way for one group to inform the other that they're being overrun, and need to fall back?

    My problem with the scenario is that either something like that was worked out in advance (and the Horde just didn't use it, which makes their retreat malicious) or Varian and Sylvanas both thought that a way to communicate wasn't really necessary, which paints both leaders in a quite incompetent light.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharikov View Post
    Varian died because Varian didn't retreat when a retreat was sounded because both armies were in the middle of a trap.

    The Legion deceived the Alliance and Horde about the numbers of their forces (see rogue class quest, false intel), and lured them to the Broken Shore to wipe out all the leaders of the Horde and Alliance in one fel (heh heh) swoop.

    This plan only failed because the Horde went "oh dang shit's fucked, YO EVERYONE LEAVE."

    Had Sylvanas /not/ sounded the retreat, then /everyone/ on the Broken Shore would have died, particularly the entire Alliance army when that giant fel reaver landed where their heads would have been.

    The end result is that Varian died because he chose to stay behind, and Genn, Gelbin, and the rest of the Alliance forces lived because the Horde forced them to pull back out of a trap.
    BRB lvling my rogue now lmfao.

    Those little details certainly do make a difference!

  9. #9
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    They still didn't tell the Alliance they were retreating

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    What I find the most interesting is that this is that you (and, to be fair, most others) have an issue with the "misunderstanding" and the retreat/stay and fight options - I personally think that the entire scenario is ridiculous. We're expected to believe that the Horde and Alliance work together in a tightly coordinated assault on the Legion, but haven't worked out a way to get a message across to each other? That there's literally no way for one group to inform the other that they're being overrun, and need to fall back?

    My problem with the scenario is that either something like that was worked out in advance (and the Horde just didn't use it, which makes their retreat malicious) or Varian and Sylvanas both thought that a way to communicate wasn't really necessary, which paints both leaders in a quite incompetent light.
    As far as I am aware, language barrier is a gameplay mechanic only, doesn't actually exist in Lore. Cutscenes are cannon and they're always talking to eachother and understand one another.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    Unless you are one of the few that never played Horde side, literally the whole reason for Horde/Ally conflict in Legion was based on a misunderstanding, yet it's one of the main reasons cited at Blizzcon for why there is conflict between the factions in BFA.

    I would say the odds of Teldrassil burning being any different are slim to none at all.

    But let's not let that stop people from taking unconfirmed rumors and baseless speculation as gospel.
    Hearing the casual mention of that at blizzcon pissed me beyond belief.. They already butched immersion and lore with making the PC the wielder of retardedly OP weapons then making the freaking leader of their class for both horde and alliance + the awkward timegated quests

    Seriously throughout the year we spend in our faction halls with fellows from the same class of both A/H and time spent with faction leaders and neutral heroes + all that hanging out on Dalaran together, it wasn't cleared up that there was no conspiracy or backstabbing going on at broken shore? horde retreated because they were led to a trap and got slaughtered by endless amounts of demons and even lost their warchief + eating freaking laser beams to the face from multiple fucking space ships. (not sure how baine survived that really..) No one had the follow up discussion of how Genn led an unprovoked attack against the Horde in Stormheim that put the whole zone and control of the aegis at risk to the legion and might have had terrible consequences?

    Also,
    It was ridiculous to be declared the leader of X class then fly down to one of the zones to start questing and immediately get chopped down by one of your "followers" from your class who happens to be a part of the other faction..

    The stupid "filler" weekly quests were so lazily done, devs were basically saying, here eat your shit and shut up.. In the past when we had "time gated" quests the flavor/quest text would at least try to validate the reasons saying "oh we just discovered X, which is why we didnt give you this quest last week" or "Check with me later, I need to study Y to have a better understanding first etc", in Legion you awkwardly stare at Punmaster 9000 until he decides to give you another go kill/collect/generic action X amount from Y place quests..

    Ok done ranting

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehman View Post
    They still didn't tell the Alliance they were retreating
    You apparently need to go back and replay this thing, because they literally see it as it happens and the Horde sound horns ahead of it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    What I find the most interesting is that this is that you (and, to be fair, most others) have an issue with the "misunderstanding" and the retreat/stay and fight options - I personally think that the entire scenario is ridiculous. We're expected to believe that the Horde and Alliance work together in a tightly coordinated assault on the Legion, but haven't worked out a way to get a message across to each other? That there's literally no way for one group to inform the other that they're being overrun, and need to fall back?

    My problem with the scenario is that either something like that was worked out in advance (and the Horde just didn't use it, which makes their retreat malicious) or Varian and Sylvanas both thought that a way to communicate wasn't really necessary, which paints both leaders in a quite incompetent light.
    You do realize they sounded the horn to retreat, letting everyone and their mother know they were leaving right? like immediately.. Thats how armies communicate in battles (+flags sometimes), it is not like hollywood movies where every important character on the battle field is arms length from each other and the whole field can hear your shouting orders

  14. #14
    Legendary! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zharikov View Post
    Varian died because Varian didn't retreat when a retreat was sounded because both armies were in the middle of a trap.

    The Legion deceived the Alliance and Horde about the numbers of their forces (see rogue class quest, false intel), and lured them to the Broken Shore to wipe out all the leaders of the Horde and Alliance in one fel (heh heh) swoop.

    This plan only failed because the Horde went "oh dang shit's fucked, YO EVERYONE LEAVE."

    Had Sylvanas /not/ sounded the retreat, then /everyone/ on the Broken Shore would have died, particularly the entire Alliance army when that giant fel reaver landed where their heads would have been.

    The end result is that Varian died because he chose to stay behind, and Genn, Gelbin, and the rest of the Alliance forces lived because the Horde forced them to pull back out of a trap.
    And with this post....

    /thread

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    Hearing the casual mention of that at blizzcon pissed me beyond belief.. They already butched immersion and lore with making the PC the wielder of retardedly OP weapons then making the freaking leader of their class for both horde and alliance + the awkward timegated quests

    Seriously throughout the year we spend in our faction halls with fellows from the same class of both A/H and time spent with faction leaders and neutral heroes + all that hanging out on Dalaran together, it wasn't cleared up that there was no conspiracy or backstabbing going on at broken shore? horde retreated because they were led to a trap and got slaughtered by endless amounts of demons and even lost their warchief + eating freaking laser beams to the face from multiple fucking space ships. (not sure how baine survived that really..) No one had the follow up discussion of how Genn led an unprovoked attack against the Horde in Stormheim that put the whole zone and control of the aegis at risk to the legion and might have had terrible consequences?

    Also,
    It was ridiculous to be declared the leader of X class then fly down to one of the zones to start questing and immediately get chopped down by one of your "followers" from your class who happens to be a part of the other faction..

    The stupid "filler" weekly quests were so lazily done, devs were basically saying, here eat your shit and shut up.. In the past when we had "time gated" quests the flavor/quest text would at least try to validate the reasons saying "oh we just discovered X, which is why we didnt give you this quest last week" or "Check with me later, I need to study Y to have a better understanding first etc", in Legion you awkwardly stare at Punmaster 9000 until he decides to give you another go kill/collect/generic action X amount from Y place quests..

    Ok done ranting
    Why do people like you even still play the game?
    I'm not a defender of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    Hearing the casual mention of that at blizzcon pissed me beyond belief..
    Too be fair, Blizzard did not state that the Alliance had an actual reason to have beef with the horde over the Broken Shore. I am sure they know it was a misunderstanding, they wrote the thing.

    I am saying Teldrassil burning, whatever it is that causes it and whenever it happens, is probably also a misunderstanding.

    There's some Alliance players flat out expecting Sylvannas to be a truly evil big bad in this xpac and there's simply nothing actually pointing in that direction. But I think some WOW devs want you to think that it's possible.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharikov View Post
    Varian died because Varian didn't retreat when a retreat was sounded because both armies were in the middle of a trap.

    The Legion deceived the Alliance and Horde about the numbers of their forces (see rogue class quest, false intel), and lured them to the Broken Shore to wipe out all the leaders of the Horde and Alliance in one fel (heh heh) swoop.

    This plan only failed because the Horde went "oh dang shit's fucked, YO EVERYONE LEAVE."

    Had Sylvanas /not/ sounded the retreat, then /everyone/ on the Broken Shore would have died, particularly the entire Alliance army when that giant fel reaver landed where their heads would have been.

    The end result is that Varian died because he chose to stay behind, and Genn, Gelbin, and the rest of the Alliance forces lived because the Horde forced them to pull back out of a trap.
    I would rather say Varian die because he did not chicken out.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    You do realize they sounded the horn to retreat, letting everyone and their mother know they were leaving right? like immediately.. Thats how armies communicate in battles (+flags sometimes), it is not like hollywood movies where every important character on the battle field is arms length from each other and the whole field can hear your shouting orders
    Of course, but by then it was "too late" - with the amount of magic at their disposal they should've easily been able to convey what was going on the moment it was happening. And that's not even mentioning the fact that the entire reason for this animosity, and the war that's about to start, is a cliff ledge that blocked line of sight! Even with an Alliance gunship nearby, not a single Alliance soldier saw the Horde situation? I dunno, I just find the entire scenario preposterous.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    You apparently need to go back and replay this thing, because they literally see it as it happens and the Horde sound horns ahead of it.
    The point was never whether they notified anyone they were fleeing. The point is that they fled.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    BRB lvling my rogue now lmfao.

    Those little details certainly do make a difference!
    Some would say that alliance’s intelligence completely failed and was the main mechanism behind the trap. It’s a pure miracle that Varrian survived as long as he did as the legion had him in crosshairs for some time. It’s obvious the legion could eliminate him sooner, but then their position would’ve been exposed and the opportunity to do the same for the Horde would be wasted.
    But this part of the story is only visible in the rogue order hall chain.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    And with this post....

    /thread

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why do people like you even still play the game?
    Why do people question completely illogical and lazy writing and developing exists? Cause we know they can do better and we deserve better maybe? You can continue making zero contribution to discussions and wasting oxygen now.. or you know, point out the errors of my posts or your counterpoints so we can have a discussion.

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