Remember when Genn Greymane didn't watch the Horde cinematic for the Broken Shore?

[LaserChild9]

Misunderstanding or not, the end result is that Varian died because Horde retreated.

The Horde retreated because Vol'jin went down and they were getting their arse handed to them, even if they stayed, they would have been overwhelmed and the end result would have been the same. The Horde and the Alliance underestimated the Legions forces and they paid for it, you cant blame Varian's death on the Horde's retreat.

[Shakou]

You are pretty rude, given that I agreed that it would not really be considered murder due to it being war times in the midst of battle. That is what the paragraph after the one you quoted is about. My point was that it hitting another target shouldn't make it any better or worse, no matter if it is called murder.

Ya but part of the point of this thread is that exact, verbatim word for word, actual statements matter.

You are demonstrating how rumors get started. Game shows a battle take place between the Gilneans and Forsaken during a time of war, and in this battle Sylvannas tries to kill Genn and his son steps in the way to protect him and dies.

Player who is either unfamiliar with English or unfamiliar with the actual details of this story claims Sylvannas murdered Genn's son, and nobody bothers to fact check it. Pretty soon the rumor is treated as facts and people on this forum call you rude and say you're trolling for laying down the facts.

Yes as a matter of fact it does matter whether you say it is murder or not. Your point is not a very good one. Your point does not undermine anything stated here no matter how much you want it to. It doesn't even make a dent.

[Heladys]

You apparently need to go back and replay this thing, because they literally see it as it happens and the Horde sound horns ahead of it.

In a world of Khadgar heads in bubbles sending messages, Sylvanas could've found a way to express they were leaving other than Varian looking up to see them backing off the cliff face.

She's a snake. She looked out for herself first, as usual.

[gcsmith]

In a world of Khadgar heads in bubbles sending messages, Sylvanas could've found a way to express they were leaving other than Varian looking up to see them backing off the cliff face.

She's a snake. She looked out for herself first, as usual.

I mean, not as if she couldn't have sent a valk'yr to send a message

[Shakou]

In a world of Khadgar heads in bubbles sending messages, Sylvanas could've found a way to express they were leaving other than Varian looking up to see them backing off the cliff face.

She's a snake. She looked out for herself first, as usual.

She didn't even order the retreat, you git.

[Nahela]

This is actually my least favorite tool in storytelling. It's essentially manufactured drama over something that is immediately resolved with any slight bit of communication. It's been used forever, in all forms of media. While there are certainly parallels in real life to where things like this occurs, it's just a terrible storytelling mechanic when overused.

[Deleted]

The fact that the Horde retreated is not the issue. The Alliance retreated when they knew the situation was hopeless. The issue was the way they retreated. The moment their backs were against the wall the Horde went "F**k this lets leg it". They didn't even give second thought for the Alliance forces they were supporting below.

Did Sylvanas try a coordinated retreat with the Alliance? No!
Did she send any of the Val'Kyr to get any of the Alliance leaders? No!
Did she at least try and come back and launch counter attack to at least assist an Alliance retreat? No!

They went in together and should have come out together. Because of the Horde that didn't happen and Varian died. That's why the Alliance and their leadership are so furious.

[Shakou]

This is actually my least favorite tool in storytelling. It's essentially manufactured drama over something that is immediately resolved with any slight bit of communication. It's been used forever, in all forms of media. While there are certainly parallels in real life to where things like this occurs, it's just a terrible storytelling mechanic when overused.

I agree with this, it's a good storytelling device. It's just a shame that a lot of people don't recognize it for what it is and keep regurgitating nonsense about Sylvannas being "bad" for not dying with the rest of them.

I mean the fact is that she didn't personally order the retreat. She just made the call on orders from Vol'jin.

It's almost as if half the people posting in here only read the thread title, didn't really pay attention in game but are somehow totally emotionally invested in this topic, and are totally unaware that the Rogue order Hall Campaign is all about how the entire Broken Shore scenario was based on bad Alliance intel and they could have all been killed at any moment and would have been had the Horde not retreated.

[Kiri]

Ya but part of the point of this thread is that exact, verbatim word for word, actual statements matter.

You are demonstrating how rumors get started. Game shows a battle take place between the Gilneans and Forsaken during a time of war, and in this battle Sylvannas tries to kill Genn and his son steps in the way to protect him and dies.

Player who is either unfamiliar with English or unfamiliar with the actual details of this story claims Sylvannas murdered Genn's son, and nobody bothers to fact check it. Pretty soon the rumor is treated as facts and people on this forum call you rude and say you're trolling for laying down the facts.

Yes as a matter of fact it does matter whether you say it is murder or not. Your point is not a very good one. Your point does not undermine anything stated here no matter how much you want it to. It doesn't even make a dent.

What are you even talking about? Me pretty much agreeing on the murder thing means I do the opposite somehow? I don't think you are reading what I am saying at all.
Though I do like how you also ignored the part where you were corrected with regards to the timing of the Forsaken attack.

[Shakou]

The fact that the Horde retreated is not the issue.

No the issue is that you don't know what you're talking about but keep communicating your thoughts anyways instead of shutting up and reading.

Plenty of good information here that you definitely weren't aware of before making that post.

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What are you even talking about? Me pretty much agreeing on the murder thing means I do the opposite somehow? I don't think you are reading what I am saying at all.
Though I do like how you also ignored the part where you were corrected with regards to the timing of the Forsaken attack.

I DO NOT CARE IF YOU THINK I AM RUDE YOU'RE ON MY IGNORE LIST. Make responses worth responding or frankly LEAVE. Thank you.

I care about facts only and you care about bullshit. All you are doing is derailing conversation here. Conversation isn't about your feelings homie.

[THEORACLE64]

First off calling someone a troll is actually a violation of the TOS on these forums so I've reported you and you can probably enjoy your ban any minute now. 2nd this is my thread, I am not "trolling my own thread" here. Third what you said was said in Blizzard interviews was not fucking said.

They did not verbatim state that Sylvannas or the Horde burns down Teldrassil. What was stated did not in fact mention who burned Teldrassil at all, just that the Alliance attacks Undercity in retaliation and that this takes place after the concept art images seen of Sylvannas watching Teldrassil burn.

I realize you live in this alterative reality where exact statements do not matter, but as a matter of what is verbatim word for word stated is what matters, not what some random person on the internet thinks is implied.

You're welcome to your opinion and all but opinions aren't facts.

I know it is, but yet here we are. You've posted trolly and flamebate-y threads on here, thus my conclusion.

The Horde burnt down Teldrassil, its been stated. It's not been said who within the Horde did it, but the Horde did.

[Kiri]

No the issue is that you don't know what you're talking about but keep communicating your thoughts anyways instead of shutting up and reading.

Plenty of good information here that you definitely weren't aware of before making that post.

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I DO NOT CARE IF YOU THINK I AM RUDE YOU'RE ON MY IGNORE LIST. Make responses worth responding or frankly LEAVE. Thank you.

I care about facts only and you care about bullshit. All you are doing is derailing conversation here. Conversation isn't about your feelings homie.

The only one being on about feelings is you though. You literally just stressed how important it is to correct wrongful beliefs. And yet, you have stated falsehoods yourself as 'facts' and don't even acknowledge it when you are corrected. You telling me to leave changes nothing about that.

[Shakou]

Stop responding to this thread if you're not going to read it and keep regurgitating points that either have nothing to do with the discussion or were already discussed.

You are exactly the kind of people this thread needed to be made for. No longer responding to your posts if you can't acknowledge everyone else in here who accepts what we are bringing to light here is correct. Thanks.

[Shakou]

Are you sure? She blew the horn - who did signal the retreat if it wasn't Lich Bitch

Apparently you did not read the last post. Welcome to ignore land. learn to read threads. Not going over this again.

[Kiri]

Stop responding to this thread if you're not going to read it and keep regurgitating points that either have nothing to do with the discussion or were already discussed.

You are exactly the kind of people this thread needed to be made for. No longer responding to your posts if you can't acknowledge everyone else in here who accepts what we are bringing to light here is correct. Thanks.

Oh, I read it. And I am talking about a point that you yourself have introduced, but is factually wrong. The Forsaken landed before the Cataclysm fully hit Gilneas.
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14321/invasion Is the quest introducing the Forsaken Invasion. It is set beffore http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14396/as-the-land-shatters, which is the quest introducing the effects of the Cataclysm. This conflicts with your statement that the Forsaken only took Gilneas City from the feral Worgen, they assaulted the refugees in Duskhaven. And that was before the land was shattered in the Cataclysm. Though, if you mean the Shattering book when you say shattering then there is some truth to it due to that book taking place before any of those events. But since it has no bearing on the Worgen storyline directly, it would be odd to bring that up.

[gcsmith]

Apparently you did not read the last post. Welcome to ignore land. learn to read threads. Not going over this again.

wow, what a pompous blow hard.

Firstly, what a hypocrite, you complain about "Only caring about facts," and "hating emotion." but ignore anyone who disagrees with you. Which is an emotional response, and the tactic of a child who cannot engage in rational discussion.

Secondly, the only fact you've brought to the table is the definition of murder, which doesn't A) Absolve Sylvannas of any wrong doing and B)Murder can apply in war. There is a reason we have the Hauge and war crimes, because not all killing in war is correct. In fact, if you look at recent rulings, going into a foreign peaceful nation and killing a leader would be considered a war crime because like it or not, declaration of war and war politics isn't just as simple as going "Invade them," in fact it often involves and maybe requires a public declaration made to the enemy you're at war with. No declaration was made before Sylvannas just turned up and started kill Gilneans.

Thirdly, many people use murder and killing as synonyms. It may not be correct, but nothing someone who only cares about facts and hates emotional responses should be getting their nose bent out of shape about.

Fouthly, nothing is obvious to Alliance characters. Especially not after the Corpse Gate incident.

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Oh, I read it. And I am talking about a point that you yourself have introduced, but is factually wrong. The Forsaken landed before the Cataclysm fully hit Gilneas.
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14321/invasion Is the quest introducing the Forsaken Invasion. It is set beffore http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14396/as-the-land-shatters, which is the quest introducing the effects of the Cataclysm. This conflicts with your statement that the Forsaken only took Gilneas City from the feral Worgen, they assaulted the refugees in Duskhaven. And that was before the land was shattered in the Cataclysm. Though, if you mean the Shattering book when you say shattering then there is some truth to it due to that book taking place before any of those events. But since it has no bearing on the Worgen storyline directly, it would be odd to bring that up.

Also, as someone who says they care about facts, they're surprisingly not bringing any relevant ones to the party. The fact it was before or after the Catclysm is irreverent.

If during WW2, the Germans had randomly attacked Switzerland, a nation who had made a very public statement about being neutral, no one would have gone "Was it before or after a natural disaster?" They would have scorned Germany for attacking a neutral entity, and the UN would have considered it another major war crime.

[Darktbs]

Yeah, He died cause Blizzard forgot that Jaina is there....

Take a look at the Hyjal summit raid and see how much time it took her to teleport everyone away.

Without being disturbed.

[Deleted]

No the issue is that you don't know what you're talking about but keep communicating your thoughts anyways instead of shutting up and reading.

Plenty of good information here that you definitely weren't aware of before making that post.

Wow chill out mate it is just a game. I am well entitled to my opinion and I stand by it. The Horde didn't give a monkeys for the Alliance and just thought of saving their own skin. I don't have time to read through 8 or 9 pages worth of responses and have no intention of doing so. If somebody has already provided answers to my views than good for them.

Try stop insulting people and you may find growing up a bit easier then.

[Kallisto]

The Alliance had no way of knowing how bad things were. From his view everything was fine, the combined armies were winning the fight and then the Horde calmly withdrew from battle. Seriously the archers shouting out something reflecting the gravity of the situation would have clued the Alliance in. Seriously just a bad job on Blizzards part to force a conflict.

You do realise the Alliance knows the horn the horde blows is a signal for retreat. Alliance players in Ashenvale find one and use it as a means to get victory in a battle. So the alliance on hearing the horn should have realised how fucked up things are up there since there's no other reason for that horn.

[gcsmith]

You do realise the Alliance knows the horn the horde blows is a signal for retreat. Alliance players in Ashenvale find one and use it as a means to get victory in a battle. So the alliance on hearing the horn should have realised how fucked up things are up there since there's no other reason for that horn.

They knew it was a retreat, but didn't know why. The scenario proved they could hear each other, and yet all we see is the horn and the archers casually walking away. Given how the horde has used these kind of fights to kill alliance before, why wouldn't they assume again.