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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    I've heard that story be told by some people. Others, however, disagree.
    Well, if it weren't for the US and all their evil, Finland would probably be speaking German, Japan would control most of east Asia, and you would be pissed that "Murica never does nuffin".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowbaq View Post
    Isn't that a well-known fact that the US government was aware of this attack and didn't do shit? Is the remembrance about that government lie aswell ? Or is it just swept under the carpet like the vietnam war defeat ?

    Anyhow, god bless soldiers of any kind who give their lifes for the greater good.
    Nice conspiracy theory, is the earth flat too?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    Well, if it weren't for the US and all their evil, Finland would probably be speaking German, Japan would control most of east Asia, and you would be pissed that "Murica never does nuffin".
    Hitler would've lost against Stalin whether the United States existed or not.
    things worked out better than we had planned • now everything's ruined, yeah

  3. #63
    Scarab Lord bungeebungee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö
    Yeah... Finland was already at war in 1939. In an actual, full out war, where the entire country was being invaded. By a force greater than that of Hitler's. By a monster worse than Hitler. Yet, peace was negotiated, and civilians weren't slaughtered. I feel like it's very well an option and a possibility.
    While Mannerheim deserves respect for his military and political accomplishments, let's be honest about the politics he used to survive:

    Before deciding to accept the Soviet demands, Mannerheim wrote a missive directly to Hitler:[48]

    Our German brothers-in-arms will forever remain in our hearts. The Germans in Finland were certainly not the representatives of foreign despotism but helpers and brothers-in-arms. But even in such cases foreigners are in difficult positions requiring such tact. I can assure you that during the past years nothing whatsoever happened that could have induced us to consider the German troops intruders or oppressors. I believe that the attitude of the German Army in northern Finland towards the local population and authorities will enter our history as a unique example of a correct and cordial relationship ... I deem it my duty to lead my people out of the war. I cannot and I will not turn the arms which you have so liberally supplied us against Germans. I harbour the hope that you, even if you disapprove of my attitude, will wish and endeavour like myself and all other Finns to terminate our former relations without increasing the gravity of the situation.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"
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  4. #64
    Warchief Molis's Avatar
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    Another day and another American Nation bashing thread allowed on MMOC.

    Stay classy.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    While Mannerheim deserves respect for his military and political accomplishments, let's be honest about the politics he used to survive:
    Oh I'm proud of us using Hitler to beat Stalin. That was ingenious.
    things worked out better than we had planned • now everything's ruined, yeah

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    This is typical of these fucking neck beards on this forum, they think any conflict can be solved with flowers and love, when in fact it cant. I think its also hilarious, that they blame the US for so many deaths, when we remained neutral as long as possible, until someone finally sucked us into the European shit show, but its our fault of course.
    Exactly. They conveniently ignore the "fight to the last person" order the Emperor gave, which would have cost Allied lives in the hundred's of thousands as well as killing more civilians than the two atomic bombs we dropped.

    But reality is typically lost on the revisionist historians who think the atomic bombs weren't necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowbaq View Post
    Isn't that a well-known fact that the US government was aware of this attack and didn't do shit? Is the remembrance about that government lie aswell ? Or is it just swept under the carpet like the vietnam war defeat ?

    Anyhow, god bless soldiers of any kind who give their lifes for the greater good.
    Conspiracy theories are not allowed on this forum.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Hitler would've lost against Stalin whether the United States existed or not.
    If the US wasn't pushing from the West, I highly doubt Hilter would have lost the Eastern front. He could have put all his forces on the eastern front and easily defended the Reich.

  8. #68
    It's cute how Europeans think they would have beat the Nazis without the US. Sucks that you got your shit pushed in bros, just accept it and thank us for bailing you out then, and babysitting you all these years after. Funny, as soon as we step back from Europe after communism fell, you let yourselves be invaded by Muslims.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Exactly. They conveniently ignore the "fight to the last person" order the Emperor gave, which would have cost Allied lives in the hundred's of thousands as well as killing more civilians than the two atomic bombs we dropped.

    But reality is typically lost on the revisionist historians who think the atomic bombs weren't necessary.

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    Stop raiding on their USA hating fest, everything is always a false flag by the US, and everything the US doe sis evil, even if the other side starts it, duhhhhh.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    If the US wasn't pushing from the West, I highly doubt Hilter would have lost the Eastern front. He could have put all his forces on the eastern front and easily defended the Reich.
    Didn't seem like the kind of guy who would've been satisfied in defending some area instead of trying to conquer the entire planet.
    things worked out better than we had planned • now everything's ruined, yeah

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Hitler would've lost against Stalin whether the United States existed or not.
    No, absent the copious military aid supplied to the soviets, Hitler would have either captured or destroyed almost the entirety of soviet industrial capacity.
    If the US had said, not getting involved, (in any way) Hitler would have won on the eastern and the western fronts.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molis View Post
    Another day and another American Nation bashing thread allowed on MMOC.

    Stay classy.
    You can't just bury your head in the sand and go LALALA NATION BASHING every time someone raises valid concerns about how us foreign policy.

    FACTS are not nation bashing

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    If the US wasn't pushing from the West, I highly doubt Hilter would have lost the Eastern front. He could have put all his forces on the eastern front and easily defended the Reich.
    Dude, US combat troops essentially did fuck all in the European Theater - 90% of all German divisions were brought down by the Soviets.
    the critical US involvement was its industrial output, the GI's barely mattered.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurata View Post
    You can't just bury your head in the sand and go LALALA NATION BASHING every time someone raises valid concerns about how us foreign policy.

    FACTS are not nation bashing
    Exactly, and I guess some of us are concerned with the mentality where you can get really upset over a few thousand casualties in an attack (Pearl Harbor or 9/11), then blindly worship uniform while forgetting completely the hundreds of thousands of casualties that result from the response that isn't at all measured.

    Especially today, when Kim may just do something stupid, and then the retarded monkey that is the PotUS currently does yet another response that isn't at all measured, and nukes entire North Korea and kills millions of civilians. We might want to look back and remember the past, being that it's a day of remembrance and all, and try not to do just that.
    things worked out better than we had planned • now everything's ruined, yeah

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurata View Post
    You can't just bury your head in the sand and go LALALA NATION BASHING every time someone raises valid concerns about how us foreign policy.

    FACTS are not nation bashing
    Yeah man, and the all mighty Soviet Russia dindunuffin wrong right? Angels when it came to foreign policy.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    If the US wasn't pushing from the West, I highly doubt Hilter would have lost the Eastern front. He could have put all his forces on the eastern front and easily defended the Reich.
    Hell, even with us pushing from the west Germany could have taken Russia out of the war if not for Hitler's obsession with taking Stalingrad instead of the Russian oil fields. In a lot of ways the Allies didn't win the war so much as Hitler's ego lost it.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Exactly, and I guess some of us are concerned with the mentality where you can get really upset over a few thousand casualties in an attack (Pearl Harbor or 9/11), then blindly worship uniform while forgetting completely the hundreds of thousands of casualties that result from the response that isn't at all measured.

    Especially today, when Kim may just do something stupid, and then the retarded monkey that is the PotUS currently does yet another response that isn't at all measured, and nukes entire North Korea and kills millions of civilians. We might want to look back and remember the past, being that it's a day of remembrance and all, and try not to do just that.
    Did anyone say "we forgot how many died"? You came in here and said "why should you pay respects to your people who died, when all these other people died". What the fuck kind of response is that? We also lost another quarter of a million military personnel after Japan sucked us into the war. Civilians are unfortunately collateral damage, because their government wanted to attack us, but that's our fault? Not theirs? If you dont want youre people to die, dont start the fucking war in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    Hell, even with us pushing from the west Germany could have taken Russia out of the war if not for Hitler's obsession with taking Stalingrad instead of the Russian oil fields. In a lot of ways the Allies didn't win the war so much as Hitler's ego lost it.
    Very true, were all pretty lucky he didnt know how to listen to his Generals.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    Did anyone say "we forgot how many died"?
    Nobody said that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    You came in here and said "why should you pay respects to your people who died, when all these other people died".
    Nobody said that either. Perhaps don't make shit up.
    things worked out better than we had planned • now everything's ruined, yeah

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toogoodman View Post
    Yeah man, and the all mighty Soviet Russia dindunuffin wrong right? Angels when it came to foreign policy.
    Soviets had to deal with several invasion tentatives since day 1 after the revolution from almost every neighboring European power and the USA (yes). Everywhere Communist movements started they were invaded of destabilized by Americans

  20. #80
    Scarab Lord bungeebungee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö
    that result from the response that isn't at all measured.
    Did you not get the memo? You are attempting to superimpose a modern idea of measured response on the historical context -- Japan declared war. By those rules, it was "last man standing" and not imposing crushing terms of surrender in the WWI style was forward looking.

    You are also attempting to say "well, Finland ...". Finland didn't act with greater strength and aggressiveness because in the scale of WWII, although they mounted a politically skillful and brave defense of their territory, they just didn't have the military force to go much further than they did. You are like a Yorkie threatening to rip someone's throat out.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"
    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat
    a century and a half isn't nearly enough time for say English to become intelligible
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap
    he's Chinese and won the Noble Peach Prize

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