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  1. #1

    SnD Outlaw t21 Stats

    Ok, So what’s the stat priority for Outlaw when using SnD and T21? Just curious because one minute the guides say “avoid” Haste and the next they say it’s better than Agility.

    So what is it for both:

    •Raiding
    &
    •Mythic + (the main thing I use the spec for)



    (Please don’t post any of that “Play Sub” or “Use RtB” bullshit, Please. It doesn’t mean much to me and it’s just annoying cluttter on the forum. I play all specs, but this post is about outlaw)
    Last edited by Sinbad101; 2017-12-07 at 09:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    Ok, So what’s the stat priority for Outlaw when using SnD and T21? Just curious because one minute the guides say “avoid” Haste and the next they say it’s better than Agility.

    So what is it for both:

    •Raiding
    &
    •Mythic + (the main thing I use the spec for)



    (Please don’t post any of that “Play Sub” or “Use RtB” bullshit, Please. It doesn’t mean much to me and it’s just annoying cluttter on the forum. I play all specs, but this post is about outlaw)
    You need to sim yourself to know for sure, there are no set stat values as the values of some stats will change depending on how much of another you have.

    General stat rating will be Vers > Crit > Mastery > Haste, but if you are below 20% haste its value is going to be much higher then mastery and as you get more gear the spread between these stats becomes negligible to an extent. Simming for my gear, my current stat weights are ( Pawn: v1: "Ryüjii-Outlaw": Class=Rogue, Spec=Outlaw, Agility=27.38, CritRating=28.01, HasteRating=27.65, MasteryRating=23.82, Versatility=31.83, Dps=24.43 ) Which means for me, currently Vers Crit and haste are all more valuable them Agi

  3. #3
    That’s... complicated. My IQ is like 75.

    So is Icy veins to be trusted? They seem to love haste. And that sucks for me because i’ve Actively avoided haste the whole EXPAC.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    That’s... complicated. My IQ is like 75.

    So is Icy veins to be trusted? They seem to love haste. And that sucks for me because i’ve Actively avoided haste the whole EXPAC.
    It's not complicated at all:
    • Download the in-game AddOn https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/simulationcraft
    • In-game, type "/simc" - and copy (ctrl+c) the code it gives you
    • Go to https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/stats
    • Paste (ctrl+v) the code you just copied into the "B) OR PASTE FROM SIMC ADDON" box. Ensure the options are set properly, by default it should be correct for an average sim. (Iterations: 25,000 / Fight Style: Patchwerk / Number of Bosses: 1 boss / Fight Length: 5 minutes)
    • Scroll down and click "Generate Stat Weights".
    • Optional: Import the weights it tells you to Pawn in-game


    Easy, free, takes seconds-couple of minutes. Do that every time you get a new item - or if you're not too fussed, do it every few upgrades.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2017-12-07 at 10:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    That’s... complicated. My IQ is like 75.

    So is Icy veins to be trusted? They seem to love haste. And that sucks for me because i’ve Actively avoided haste the whole EXPAC.
    Haste is good for Roll the Bones builds, not so great for Slice and Dice. Personally I think Slice and Dice is what you should use for Progression for consistent damage rather then rolling for the lottery and having some attempts come up short, but it's ultimately personal preference. Ultimately your haste should float around 20% but higher with RTB. Raidbots is a good resource as Soisoisoi said because it's just Simcraft run in a cloud setting so your Processor doesn't have to do it

    And to clarify in the Pawn string, the numbers after the Stat type correlate to how many points of DPS that stat is worth to me currently in this gear setup

  6. #6
    OK ok ok, I’ll simplify my question. I’m Casual, don’t wanna do all that.

    Is Haste any good when playing a SnD Outlaw rogue?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    OK ok ok, I’ll simplify my question. I’m Casual, don’t wanna do all that.
    If you're that casual, just go by itemlevel.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    If you're that casual, just go by itemlevel.
    Not that casual.

    More like, “Heroic raider in a heroic raiding guild, who cares about optimization but not to the point of simulations and math”

    Comprehend that? I know you stay on these forums a lot but even you must have seen players like me before when you eventually play the game. We exist

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    Not that casual.

    More like, “Heroic raider in a heroic raiding guild, who cares about optimization but not to the point of simulations and math”

    Comprehend that? I know you stay on these forums a lot but even you must have seen players like me before when you eventually play the game. We exist
    So a bit of an ass that wants to be carried? If you can't be arsed to do like five minutes worth of out of game research then you should probably stop progression at LFR.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    Not that casual.

    More like, “Heroic raider in a heroic raiding guild, who cares about optimization but not to the point of simulations and math”

    Comprehend that? I know you stay on these forums a lot but even you must have seen players like me before when you eventually play the game. We exist
    I think you're missing the point that nobody can answer this question without simming your character. There is no "this stat is best", but there is "this stat is best based on your current gear." You're asking a question that nobody can answer. As posted above, sim yourself. If you want an easy way, google raidbots and use that, just have to pop in your characters name (although simcraft will be much more reliable).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    Not that casual.

    More like, “Heroic raider in a heroic raiding guild, who cares about optimization but not to the point of simulations and math”

    Comprehend that? I know you stay on these forums a lot but even you must have seen players like me before when you eventually play the game. We exist
    If you don't sim, secondary stats have no priority, simple as that. Just follow noxxic.com and be content.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    If you don't sim, secondary stats have no priority, simple as that. Just follow noxxic.com and be content.
    You really are an ignorant, huh?

    So if I don’t go beyond the game and use simulation then I shouldn’t care about stat priority even though it still exist?

    That’s bullshit. People can care about their stats and performance without using an outside source to help them determine the specifics and mathematical best.

    Does everyone exist as either a complete casual or a mythic raider for you? That’s a sad field of view you have there. There is an inbetween. Try to think outside your own head and have some empathy.

    Now like I said before in a different post, you’re not required to post, so if you’re gonna continue to be a dick then Go Away, please.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    You really are an ignorant, huh?
    Well, to be honest I think that he has right. There are no half-ways, but if you wanted one then he gave you a right answer - follow ilvl if you don't care about sims/maths. Mostly because they're the reason why stats vary in different spec/tier gear.

    I also didn't like that addon, because before we had things like BIS-lists, priorities etc. But in Legion? Without sims + pawn you're not going to do good DPS.
    I'm pretty sure that well geared(with sims/math) SnD T21 rogue would be a lot better than the one with other spec and without sims/math.

    It's actually not that hard, give it a try and it will change your whole perspective. I'm also doing mostly heroic only and I'm using sims+pawn, mostly because I don't want to be carried(but I'm playing as assa, so it's an oxymoron, haha) and I want to do good DPS(for that spec and overall in the group). @Soisoisoi actually explained it pretty well. Check out Icy-Veins and Rogue Discord group pins. If you say that you're MORE casual than that then do as @ymirsson said - follow the ilvl. Because there's seriously no other way.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2017-12-07 at 11:33 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    You really are an ignorant, huh?

    So if I don’t go beyond the game and use simulation then I shouldn’t care about stat priority even though it still exist?

    That’s bullshit. People can care about their stats and performance without using an outside source to help them determine the specifics and mathematical best.

    Does everyone exist as either a complete casual or a mythic raider for you? That’s a sad field of view you have there. There is an inbetween. Try to think outside your own head and have some empathy.

    Now like I said before in a different post, you’re not required to post, so if you’re gonna continue to be a dick then Go Away, please.
    Ironically, you are the one with a sad and narrow field of view, on top of being an ignorant dick. But i wish you luck in your life, you are seriously going to need it.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad101 View Post
    You really are an ignorant, huh?

    So if I don’t go beyond the game and use simulation then I shouldn’t care about stat priority even though it still exist?

    That’s bullshit. People can care about their stats and performance without using an outside source to help them determine the specifics and mathematical best.

    Does everyone exist as either a complete casual or a mythic raider for you? That’s a sad field of view you have there. There is an inbetween. Try to think outside your own head and have some empathy.

    Now like I said before in a different post, you’re not required to post, so if you’re gonna continue to be a dick then Go Away, please.
    "even though it still exist"

    That's the main issue here; static gear-independent stat weights/priorities do NOT exist. If you stick to one specific stat priority the entire time, eventually you're going to choose gear that you may think is better for your DPS, but in fact will lower it. It's okay if you don't want to sim every gear upgrade for new stat weights, Outlaw balances haste/vers/mastery decently so ilvl is a decent rule of thumb.

  16. #16
    This thread reads like that hunter meme with the tard asking what the best dps hunter pet is
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
    It's a Horde symbol but the middle part can also be called the "Eye" of the zone (AZSHARA), it's a play on words
    No, it is happening. The zone changed, it belongs to the Goblins now and is their home. Hearthstone is having a mechanical themed expansion soon, November's cardback is Goblin influenced and revealed concept art shows Goblin machinery. It's a HS expansion, sorry.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Ironically, you are the one with a sad and narrow field of view, on top of being an ignorant dick. But i wish you luck in your life, you are seriously going to need it.
    He keeps making threads asking these oddball questions, and bristling at the answers he gets. Like we're leading him wrong somehow, or subtly digging at him for being too insecure trust his own judgement...or not willing or able to use basic tools for the wow raider.

  18. #18
    Nah, he's fine. He's one of the many players wanting exact measurements without actually measuring exactly.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Nah, he's fine. He's one of the many players wanting exact measurements without actually measuring exactly.
    I don’t want exact measurements. I want 2 things.

    1. The basic average stat priority for SnD outlaw (because the guides don’t help)
    2. For You, and specifically YOU, to stop visiting and commenting on my threads like your life depends on you just NEDING to post your opinion.

    Not very hard or odd. Not a dumb thing to want as a casual player who cares about his stats and performance but not to absurd levels, because I think simulations and math aren’t fun, and I play for fun. Which is the purpose of a game. People forget that.

    So I don’t think it’s all to terrible that I get bothered with some of honestly dumb and inconsiderate answers I get from folks like you that NEVER actually address my original question.

    “What’s the stat priority?” Ez. It should be for a bunch of guys who sim this shit right? Hence why I asked the forum.

  20. #20
    There is no clear cut answer to your question, especially not if you disregard any answer that involves simulations etc.

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