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  1. #1

    Could this be THE way to carry the night elves forward?

    I stumbled across this post in the EU forums, and it made some excellent point that outlined or could be blueprint really good strategy for that could see something decent and improving for the night elves, a new start/direction from the plummeting that's been going on, and fashion a new nuanced path for the factions. I thought it was a very interesting read.

    The only problem I have with what you have said is when you say Blizzard need to sacrifice the N'elves for the purpose of a greater story. They don't have to keep doing it. They've done it many times, it's time to bring them some recovery.

    They don't have to be a great empire again, I doubt anyone is expecting that, but you know what would be so cool and amazing to see, that they started doing great things again. Their 12-15k year old arcane mastery through the highborne/moonguard, their 10k year old nature mastery through the druids, their 15k year old priesthood mastery coming together for the first time since the start of the empire.. now that would be exciting.

    Seeing night elves restore and rebuild amazing cities like Suramar and restore lush forests like Val'sharah or pre-destruction Ashenvale, and have a shining elegant priesthood with Temples like the Cathedral of Eternal night rebuilding a civilization. The last time all three of these forces were wielded and present in their society, they built an empire - therefore these coming together again for the first time since they really came out so so long again, should be vastly significant and exciting and a super super super welcome change from all the defeating, and more misery, more loss, more exciting things taken away. And a much wiser one too given all the experience they have and new purpose.

    Building an empire takes 100s of years even for them when they were simply in another league to every other race, so even if that was their goal, it won't be realized in the current wow timeline, and no one particularly cares or wants night elves to be . Now, they aren't so much despite their arcane/nature/divine and fel mastery being unparalleled due to their knowledge and long ears, they are low in numbers and small on resources, and many other races aren't far behind too, wielding powers like the Light and void, the elements to an extent that was far beyond the comparative opposition they faced first time round.

    Secondly they are not a conquest minded group either, they build and restore for beauty and health sake, not to rule and dominate.

    WE don't expect an empire, what we expect is to see the night elves finally beginning to operate with the efficiency, strength and enhancements their knowledge and power give them, start seeing cities again, varied communities. I'd love to see them rebuild Azsuna where the highborne settle, cleanse the nightmare, build more cities like Suramar, Vashj'ir and Eldre'thalas - even if we only got one - that one was supposed to be Suramar, but it looks like it may not be playing part in the night elf recovery because now they've put the nightborne on the horde - which is why I have previously suggested they annex SUramar from the nightborne as its getting in the way of their recovery. Another solution could be Suramar becomes a shared city a symbol of the night elven groups, arcane, nature, coming together despite them being in separate factions. This underlies that faction loyalty on races that must appear like children to them is secondary to 10k year old beings like they, and they start forging a new purpose, with their roles in the horde and the alliance being not so confrontational against each other or other races, but more advisory, instead choosing to focus as collective group on world threats even if some of them are in the alliance and some are in the horde.

    To this effect the centre of their activity should be their orders, the priesthood, the druids, the mage orders, the Wardens, the Illidari, rather than the collective night elves/nightborne etc being horde or alliance.

    THis way having some of their people in both factions (night elves alliance, nightborne horde) will serve to at least give players of both factions an investment in the night elf story and it doesn't need to be one that is conflict based, it can be the exception and end up be the example setter for peace as the one area in the horde and alliance where the groups in opposite faction aren't actually fighting in their homeland but working together.

    If that spread to Silvermoon too and the high/void/blood elves also ended up replicating the example set by the night/nightborne elves in Suramar, for the Thalassian group, mimicking the night group, then it would start really distinguishing elves as a different point of flavor for the horde/alliance.

    And while blood elves would tolerate high elves and void elves in Silvermoon again in the future, notice how for this to happen they don't need to be friends with night elves. But the nightborne can be, even though they're also with the blood elves who don't like the night elves - and in time they can work on that relationship.

    Sigh..if only huh. Why can't blizzard have the courage to re-write the role of these elves and do something different in the faction dynamic.. the races are complex enough to have these nuances not only exist, but easily understood and followed through. Players know with the night elves, they are doing their thing, they're much older, faction conflict is secondary, restoring the beauty and destruction now the legion is finally dead, and defending the world from future threats is there top priority. They remain in the factions because of their friendship to the humans (night elves ) and the blood elves (nightborne) but that's secondary to what their people are now seeking to do, as its much more important and significant to them.

    They've been under the thrall and bane of the demons or what they did to them and finally that chapter is closed, they're not going to hold on to the petty 15 or 40 year struggle or hatred of the orcs and humans compared to this huge chip that's off their shoulder. And this is a commanility only the night elven peoples (i.e. night elf, highborne, nightborne) share - so they can develop their own thing. And put their role in the faction fighting in the back seat just as they put the Pandaren horde v Pandaren Alliance fighting in the back seat - sure they have friends in the alliance and horde, but they don't hate each other even though they'll help their friends fight sometimes.

  2. #2
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Right now as that poster said, the biggest obstacle in the way of Night elves taking their rightful place in the Alliance is the humans. Give the humans a crushing defeat, have the light fail them or just have them fall behind, no strong or agile enough, or wise enough to deal with a threat , and then have the night elves come in and grab them by the shoulders and pull them up.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Cien's Avatar
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    i really like this idea and it would be amazing to see ingame, however the story seems to be taking rather questionable turns of late and yes, it is a fantasy game and all that, but its starting to be a bit silly some parts of the story so far.

    we can only hope, but it does sound simply fabulous

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I stumbled across this post in the EU forums, and it made some excellent point that outlined or could be blueprint really good strategy for that could see something decent and improving for the night elves, a new start/direction from the plummeting that's been going on, and fashion a new nuanced path for the factions. I thought it was a very interesting read.
    darnassus is gone. give the night elves back Eldre'Thalas. rebuilt it as their new capital. the great, mighty Eldre'Thalas that Goldrin himself protected....the amazingly powerful highborne shedralar are already part of the night elves....make it so through expansions they rebuild this once great city and transform it as their new capital.... work with the highborne that have deep knowledge and secrets of power of at least 10k years....now this would make night elves so fucking awesome again....but it is never going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Ion says High Elves are basically Blood Elves, and so are Void Elves. How do Obelisk Kai and Friendlyimmolation handle it? They froth at the mouth, yelling as loud as they can "ION SAID HIGH ELVES ARE DEAD AND ARE NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! THE CONVERSATION IS OVER! ION IS WoW JESUS!"

  5. #5
    The Insane Arrashi's Avatar
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    The best way for night elves to carry forward is losing 95% of their population in flames. That will surely give them unique feel and nice motivation.

    Also, i love idea that horde players are "invested" into night elf story. Its cute in delusional way.
    Last edited by Arrashi; 2017-12-07 at 10:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Another guy expands and blames the humans, very insightful

    I think that given their current status, what you said was something to be expected.

    Night elves were at their 'peak' 10.000 years ago, and everything they'll gain in the future, compared to what they were in the past will feel very......disappointing.

    Now, as for their current status, they find themselves with a very big problem: The Alliance.

    Being part of the Alliance (as its currently being written) is negative for all its races in the long run.
    Why?
    Because Blizzard when dealing with Alliance content, most of the time focus on humans.

    And if they use Night elves (or Worgen, or Draenei,....) is to showcase some loss that kickstarts another plot about how humans save the day.

    Also, Tyrande and Malfurion could be blamed too.

    Yeah, it may sound unrelated, but hear me out.

    Everytime they focus on the druidic aspect of night elves, Malfurion comes to the front row. And once he does that, given his current status as a prominent neutral defender of Azeroth, the plot quickly devolves into how he saves his people using his 'awesome' powers.
    Therefore, Blizzard always finds new ways to give the Night elves some extra problems for Malfurion to solve, because thats 'his thing'.

    Something similar happens with Tyrande.
    Only she is even worse, because half the time her plots end up being about Malfurion too. But many times, we have her acting like a savage mongrel to juxtapose her rash methods with the 'thoughtful and strategically genius moves' of a human leader.

    I think Blizzard should rethink the way they are writting the Alliance these days.
    Because if they don't, the only way Night elves will get some good spotlight is if they become a third faction like they were in the past.

    Its a general problem of the Alliance faction these days, and something that affects all its races.
    When the dwarves had problems, the king of stormwind named their rulers, and when they were under attack the king of stormwind came to their rescue.
    The King of stormwind introduced the worgen, the prince of stormwind became the beacon of the Holy Light on Azeroth, going over the draenei....
    The list goes on.

    The Horde has some different problems, but at least each of its races has their own little piece of the cake (Lor'themar with his own agenda, Sylvanas doing her thing in Gilneas, orcs minding their own stuff in Ashenvale, etc...).

    But if you want to fix the Night elf problem, i recommend you look at the bigger picture and the general state of the Alliance lore and the Human Overlords.
    I think thats the key to solve it
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Right now as that poster said, the biggest obstacle in the way of Night elves taking their rightful place in the Alliance is the humans. Give the humans a crushing defeat, have the light fail them or just have them fall behind, no strong or agile enough, or wise enough to deal with a threat , and then have the night elves come in and grab them by the shoulders and pull them up.
    If blizzard would only have the courage to do this. I mean they gave the Orcs a crushing defeat, why not the humans, broke the horde open now we see a case of generlaly a lot of individuality of the races coming out, they do their thing, and don't have all their plots diverted to make humans and humans only feel good. Totally agree. Doing that and doing some sort of peace dynamic with the night group.. would really be good for the storoy I think and for the races. But with Jaina and super Anduin as loveable as they might be, blizzard will feel now they have teo show how powerful and worthy they are, in coming another fresh swathe of human victory. Yay I'm giddy with excitement....NOT!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I stumbled across this post in the EU forums, and it made some excellent point that outlined or could be blueprint really good strategy for that could see something decent and improving for the night elves, a new start/direction from the plummeting that's been going on, and fashion a new nuanced path for the factions. I thought it was a very interesting read.
    I'll be impressed when their 10k year old priest order and 10k year old sentinel order evolve from their cultural stagnation (thanks Tyrande/Malfurion) and make Paladins.

    And their highborn order? Very few original highborn even answer the call of Darnassus. Many of them saw Malfurion lifting their exile sentence as 'too little too late' when safe havens like Dalaran and Silvermoon exist. I can see the Moonguard just as easily following the Nightborn over what is essentially a fascist culture of self proclaimed 'good magic'.

    Just to be clear, that is Night Elven culture post War of the Ancients whether you think it was necessary or not. Stagnant and fascist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Another guy expands and blames the humans, very insightful



    - - - Updated - - -



    If blizzard would only have the courage to do this. I mean they gave the Orcs a crushing defeat, why not the humans, broke the horde open now we see a case of generlaly a lot of individuality of the races coming out, they do their thing, and don't have all their plots diverted to make humans and humans only feel good. Totally agree. Doing that and doing some sort of peace dynamic with the night group.. would really be good for the storoy I think and for the races. But with Jaina and super Anduin as loveable as they might be, blizzard will feel now they have teo show how powerful and worthy they are, in coming another fresh swathe of human victory. Yay I'm giddy with excitement....NOT!
    I cannot possibly understand how people can think the humans are the problem, when the clear horrible leadership in the form of dictator lovers is the problem their people have been having for 10,000 years.

    Shit one of their leaders goes to sleep for thousands of years at a time like it's not an issue. The other seems to think that it's okay to burn every bridge she crosses because she's been burned before, except when they write her 'strong female decision making' she comes off making stupid, horrible decisions for her and her people.
    There is absolutely no basis for individual rights to firearms or self defense under any contextual interpretation of the second amendment of the United States Constitution. It defines clearly a militia of which is regulated of the people and arms, for the expressed purpose of protection of the free state. Unwillingness to take in even the most basic and whole context of these laws is exactly the road to anarchy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    The best way for night elves to carry forward is losing 95% of their population in flames. That will surely give them unique feel and nice motivation.

    Also, i love idea that horde players are "invested" into night elf story. Its cute in delusional way.
    Yea you cant play both factions amaright im glad 99.9% of the alliance players arent like the ones on this forum or the alliance would be in trouble
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    In other countries like Canada the population has chosen to believe in hope, peace and tolerance. This we can see from the election of the Honourable Justin Trudeau who stood against the politics of hate and divisiveness.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaikal21 View Post
    darnassus is gone. give the night elves back Eldre'Thalas. rebuilt it as their new capital. the great, mighty Eldre'Thalas that Goldrin himself protected....the amazingly powerful highborne shedralar are already part of the night elves....make it so through expansions they rebuild this once great city and transform it as their new capital.... work with the highborne that have deep knowledge and secrets of power of at least 10k years....now this would make night elves so fucking awesome again....but it is never going to happen.
    The problem is the horde now run Kalimdor, any new night elf home /city in this context will have to be off that continent. This leads to using Suramar, and it actually lends and supports the peace initiative and coming together of the night elves and nightborne which should be a far more powerful thing than the conflict of the horde and the alliance for them in the wake of the defeat of the Legion. Which to night people is a huge thing for them. Descendants like the blood/high elves would not remember as it was their ancestors, but for those who lived in that age and are still alive - i.e. nightborne/night elf the defeat of the legion and the cure of the arcane addiction is a huge huge thing. THere is no conflict or auspicious necessary between priest and mage or druid and mage any longer - no reason for arcane bans too, they can be used to enhance nature, build wonders again. And do so together. Whiles they may have allies in opposing factions and side with them, they also have something a lot more powerful to build, do and to stand for.

    It could really work. The nightborne are not in anyways enemies with the Broken Isle night elves anyway, and that can be the bridge that restores the initial frosty relations. Joining the blood elves would not have helped initially, however if it becomes clear that horde allegiance is really only a secondary thing to the nightborne who are far more interested in defending the world and rebuilding, I think we can see corporation. Maybe it starts off as a fight between night elf and nightborne before some powerful character like Farodin or Farondis or both intercede and knock some sense into both sides and spare them from destroying SUramar in a fight to control it, and from that day on they declare no matter who their friends are there will be no elven blood spilled on Suramar. Elune seals this, or each group gives something very precious of the other to it and here on they start working a common purpose that has nothing to do with the horde and the alliance. A story that blizzard would come back too, a fun one that has both factions likely working together instead of fighting even though sometimes when coming to help their night elf or nightborne friends, staunch fanatics of the horde and alliance would take the opportunity to better the other or eliminate a foe while their night elven allies aren't looking.

    It gives warcraft something else that is coo I like the comparison of the Pandaren horde and alliance, who though in 2 separate factions aren't that invested in killing themselves though they will help their allies kill their enemies. This can be the relationship between nightborne and night elf.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Right now as that poster said, the biggest obstacle in the way of Night elves taking their rightful place in the Alliance is the humans. Give the humans a crushing defeat, have the light fail them or just have them fall behind, no strong or agile enough, or wise enough to deal with a threat , and then have the night elves come in and grab them by the shoulders and pull them up.
    I agree. It's basically what happened with the Horde. Orcs took on a lesser role after the Siege of Orgrimmar and the Forsaken filled in the power vacuum.

  11. #11
    Warcraft is ''humans and friends vs orcs and friends'', so nelves are destined to get rekt for all eternity as human slaves I'd like to see them plant a new tree in the EK, plenty of space between the dwarven kingdom and Stromgarde

  12. #12
    The Insane Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post

    If blizzard would only have the courage to do this. I mean they gave the Orcs a crushing defeat, why not the humans, broke the horde open now we see a case of generlaly a lot of individuality of the races coming out, they do their thing, and don't have all their plots diverted to make humans and humans only feel good. Totally agree. Doing that and doing some sort of peace dynamic with the night group.. would really be good for the storoy I think and for the races. But with Jaina and super Anduin as loveable as they might be, blizzard will feel now they have teo show how powerful and worthy they are, in coming another fresh swathe of human victory. Yay I'm giddy with excitement....NOT!
    Oh yeah. Like tauren doing nothing. Trolls doing nothing. Forsaken who arent sylvanas doing nothing. Goblins doing nothing. So much individuality.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Right now as that poster said, the biggest obstacle in the way of Night elves taking their rightful place in the Alliance is the humans. Give the humans a crushing defeat, have the light fail them or just have them fall behind, no strong or agile enough, or wise enough to deal with a threat , and then have the night elves come in and grab them by the shoulders and pull them up.
    The humans already had a fairly recent crushing defeat with the destruction of stormwind until it was rebuilt. Lordearan got decimated by Arthas and the continued forsaken plagues. Gilneas got defeated and the Worgens have no official home. The Gnomes had no home for the longest of time and still really don't. Now the Night Elves just got a huge crushing blow with the burning of Teldrassil.

  14. #14
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    The humans already had a fairly recent crushing defeat with the destruction of stormwind until it was rebuilt. Lordearan got decimated by Arthas and the continued forsaken plagues. Gilneas got defeated and the Worgens have no official home. The Gnomes had no home for the longest of time and still really don't. Now the Night Elves just got a huge crushing blow with the burning of Teldrassil.
    Humans bounce back instantly from every defeat, they lost 50 thousand soilders in northrend and they didn’t show it at all. They need an actual loss where they are no longer he center of the alliance
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.

  15. #15
    It's better to give up already, humans will always be the front race of the Warcraft Universe. Why? Because the players are humans.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Humans bounce back instantly from every defeat, they lost 50 thousand soilders in northrend and they didn’t show it at all. They need an actual loss where they are no longer he center of the alliance
    They bounced back form Lordaeran? Westfall is in disarray, Redridge was about to be taken over if not for Keeshan, Arathi is literally a hole in the earth, there's orc movement on northshire abbey, heck most of the human lands are train wrecks ie all of lordaeran, burning steppes, blasted lands, searing gorge, etc.

    All the other races other than the dwarves get owned in ingame lore.

  17. #17
    The Insane Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    It's better to give up already, humans will always be the front race of the Warcraft Universe. Why? Because the players are humans.
    You know i never understood that BS argument that humans are the best MCs because they are the most "relatable". The second they can shoot fire out of their hands all ability to relate goes to same level as elves, orcs and all other crap.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    They bounced back form Lordaeran? Westfall is in disarray, Redridge was about to be taken over if not for Keeshan, Arathi is literally a hole in the earth, there's orc movement on northshire abbey, heck most of the human lands are train wrecks ie all of lordaeran, burning steppes, blasted lands, searing gorge, etc.

    All the other races other than the dwarves get owned in ingame lore.
    All this happened in Cataclysm, which was ages ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderaan View Post
    All it takes is an incel at the wrong place wrong time and we won't even know what hit us.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Oh yeah. Like tauren doing nothing. Trolls doing nothing. Forsaken who arent sylvanas doing nothing. Goblins doing nothing. So much individuality.
    Some races are underrepresented but I think every Horde race has their own unique feel and identity, compare that to the Alliance which is basically humans + a bunch of races doing their best human impression. I think diversity on the Horde is a byproduct of the nonstop turmoil and literal civil war the Horde has been through since MoP.

    I think it's time to flip the script, let the Alliance be the ones to deal with internal conflict and let the Horde be unified this time. It'll bring some life back to the individual Alliance races.

  20. #20
    All Night elf Lore will be given to the Nightborn from this point on.

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