State of 10 man HC Antorus

[omni]

Post specifics on the official forums then link the post to @WarcraftDevs. 10 man scaling has been shitty since it was implemented but occasionally they will make changes to help. You gotta understand they can't go too far though, else people will simply do 10 man raiding for ease.

[Shakou]

The world would be a better place if everyone demanded 940+ for Antorus Heroic Pugs (and even Normal groups) it's only "harder" in 10man because there's less room for complete shitlords that can't do mechanics who's characters aren't remotely optimized. Also OP neglected to mention he was trying to get his shitty scrub geared self and friends geared and they just couldn't handle what they needed to without a lot of extra hands available, plus 935 is more likely what he asked for, not what most people actually had.

Maybe get good at the game or stop trying to do content you're not ready for unless you're going to pay for a carry.

[clevin]

But what you're saying is very silly. The raid is supposed to flex from 10 to 30. You should be able to run with 10 without it being significantly harder or easier. But your solutions is just not to run with 10? LOL, that's not flex, and that is the complaint, which you still do not seem to be able to grasp. "It's fine if the 10-30 flex doesn't work at all with 10, just recruit more people!" What? If you already know it is a problem with 10, you don't need to be a contrarian and you can just agree with his complaint. He already knows it works better with a few more people, he already pointed that out so he does not need that advice.

I don't even know if they guy is right or wrong, I've never run it with 10 (of even close to that small a number.)

Yes yes... I get it. You're young and want to rail against injustice. That's nice, kid. But back in the real world if OP wants to SOLVE THE FUCKING PROBLEM, they can recruit 2 or 3 more people. Because you can make the point that it SHOULD be easier at 10 all you want but that doesn't change what it currently IS. So the question is... do you want to bitch and whine? Or solve the issue and kill shit?

PS: The other reason not to run right at 10? Because if ONE person doesn't show, you're fucked and can't raid. If you have 12, 13, 14... a couple of people can be off and you can still raid.

[Battlebeard]

I just need to vent my frustration guys. Iam sorry.

10 man HC Antorus honestly feels like mythic raiding. You literally have almost zero chance of clearing it. Either u absolutely need 3 healers, and therefor have low dps aka 10min+ bossfights, or you just die.

Imo the scaling is just plain bullshit. If you play with 2 healers, which many bosses encounters require cuz of the enrage, its literally mythic difficulty. If you fail only a little bit, you just wipe. Honestly 10 man is tuned horribly and you just steamroll HC with setups like 2/3/9. Its not even close how freeloot 2/3/9 with randoms feels like compared to 2/2/6.

Plz Blizzard, dont utterly kill 10man raids. I know antorus is undertuned shit, but raiding it 10 man, with avg. ilvl of like 935+, feels like bullshit hardcore where you deserve mythic loot.

And before you ask, my raid is a composition of top 20 world raiders who know what todo. It really feels ridic how hard this shit scaling is for 10 mans. You are pretty much forced to invite rdms jus to trivialize that raid.

It's a brutally hard raid in any size. :S

[Deleted]

You have it easy on HC Coven though. My guild struggled on our first night on it with about 27 people. Got in to a pug with 9 dps after the raid and the simplicity of the smaller raid size was shocking.

[Deleted]

Less players Less failers I would say.

[dacoolist]

It's a brutally hard raid in any size. :S

I don't think I'm speaking for the entire community.. but Antorus is by far the easiest raid this expansion... at least for Heroic. It's hard to remember how hard EN was, but I REALLLLLY think if my lame ass cleared Heroic Antorus, and everrry top in guild for 10/11 literally day 1 on MYTHIC.. I'd say this shit was cake compared to Any other raid this xpac.

[Gasparde]

Normal drops 930 - how is average of 935 too low for Heroic..? Lol

Because legendaries, your artifact, 930 baseline from m+ and titanforging should already get you to 940 after 1 normal clear.

[Ellerain]

When 10M raiding was a thing, my 25M referred to 10M guilds as the WNBA. It's refreshing to see Blizzard is willing to still stick it to its less-skilled players in 2017.

When 25 man raiding was a thing, we always referred to 25M guilds as 'welfare epixx'. If we were stuck on a 10m boss the thing was to join forces with another guild and do it on easy (25M) mode for awhile to get used to mechanic/farm more gear. Ever wondered why all Mythic pugs were 25M? Hint: not because it was harder.

[Dogooder]

I have done heroic with my guild group of 12 people that have been playing together all expansion and we are currently 7/11 after this week. 2 Healers

I have also done this with a pug group of 28 people and got 10/11 with this group. No discord and very little coordination. 6 Healers.

Doing it with our guild group felt like a massive acheivement. Even Eonar was "difficult" . We couldn't get Kin'goroth and our best attempt we had him down to 15 percent.

With the pug group it felt way way easier. Tanking for both I barely had to use my cooldowns with the pug group while I was constantly using all my cooldowns.

We took way more damage in the pug group and had multiple deaths on every fight but it just didn't seem to matter at all.

[jearle]

Post specifics on the official forums then link the post to @WarcraftDevs. 10 man scaling has been shitty since it was implemented but occasionally they will make changes to help. You gotta understand they can't go too far though, else people will simply do 10 man raiding for ease.

Nobody would ever do 10 man raiding on purpose in a flex environment. Due to the weekly lockout it is always better to have more players for a larger number of items to drop and better chance at the best items in the loot pool.

Balancing this shit is near impossible to make it fair for all the different flavors of raid groups. Some of the raid is harder with a small raid size, and some of it is not. The problem is the fights that are not small raid size friendly are just really unfun if you have a small raid size.

[Swalload]

I just need to vent my frustration guys. Iam sorry.

10 man HC Antorus honestly feels like mythic raiding. You literally have almost zero chance of clearing it. Either u absolutely need 3 healers, and therefor have low dps aka 10min+ bossfights, or you just die.

Imo the scaling is just plain bullshit. If you play with 2 healers, which many bosses encounters require cuz of the enrage, its literally mythic difficulty. If you fail only a little bit, you just wipe. Honestly 10 man is tuned horribly and you just steamroll HC with setups like 2/3/9. Its not even close how freeloot 2/3/9 with randoms feels like compared to 2/2/6.

Plz Blizzard, dont utterly kill 10man raids. I know antorus is undertuned shit, but raiding it 10 man, with avg. ilvl of like 935+, feels like bullshit hardcore where you deserve mythic loot.

And before you ask, my raid is a composition of top 20 world raiders who know what todo. It really feels ridic how hard this shit scaling is for 10 mans. You are pretty much forced to invite rdms jus to trivialize that raid.

Good thing you posted right where Blizzard reads.

Also, top 20 world raiders don't post here crying, they're out there in a difficulty that doesn't work with 10 at all. Top 20 from another era doesn't matter, it only means they are not top 20 now, which makes this entire statement as useful as fucking a donkey.

[Caprix]

Back to the topic yesterday I was on Argus HC with 10 then 15 people (2 then 3 healers). A much greater PITA at 10. Apparently same number of goo debuff in p1, same number of big bombs+small bombs in P2/P4(big bomb allways on one of your healer so when things exploded you have only 1 or 0 healer in range of the tank/rest of raid), same number of required interrupts in p3. LOL.
At one time in P3 i got targeted by TWO fucking beams at the same time.

[Celestraza]

Must be clueless if you think 10man HC is comparable to mythic difficulty.

Only thing I can grant you is that certain abilities of bosses are better tuned for 20 instead of 10 players. But that really is compensated entirely by the fact that 10 people are so much easier to coordinate in addition to Antorus being entirely trivial on HC in both terms of difficulty and mechanics save maybe 1 or 2 bosses.

Would love to see your logs to back up this nonsense so I can see myself.

EDIT:
Checked a few 10 man HC groups.
One guild in particular stood out. They cleared all easily except for the last three bosses (938) where they wiped quite a bit (but all personal mistakes). Many had bad legendaries, bad dps, bad gear itemization.

The 2nd time they went in (940) they oneshot everything (2nd reset).
But in both cases they cleared the whole thing.

I think you guys just went in unprepared or have some really bad gear. I mean 935 average itemlevel? People are better geared from mythic+ which drops 940+ loot including having two 1000 ilvl legendaries putting you at about 942+ easily not to mention the welfare epics going around. Near 940 your group should be able to oneshot everything.

[music49]

Considering I haven't set foot in heroic yet and I am already 943, 935 is pretty low, I suggest running a few mythic +'s for the weekly chest, plus pugging into normal runs to try and get some warforged/titanforged gear. Yes, maybe their scaling could use some work at 10 man, but i don't think it is high on their priority list with so many guilds clearing heroic on the first week of release