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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Solution to Disc lack of AOE ?

    Hi there !

    after reading some feedback and ideas on the fact that discipline lack any sort of aoe (out of some specific talents), most people seem to favor the return of Holy Nova, but I kind of would like to see something different implemented. Here is my idea : use the mechanic of Void Eruption for Smite. What does it mean ?

    - Smite would deal 50% damage to all target affected by Shadow Word : Pain (Purged the Wicked) within 40 yards of the primary target
    - Smite would apply its absorb component to all damaged targets
    - only primary target damage would account as healing (similar to Divine Star and Halo)

    What would you think of such a mechanic ?

  2. #2
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
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    Sounds great, I'd like to have some aoe as disc...

  3. #3
    I'm not sure what you want to accomplish by this ? Although the idea is sound, it adds another ramp-up style AoE, with bigger are of effect (same principle as shadow really).

    As a healer, i do not think that you actually need sustained AoE, as you will not be able to invest time in it (not when and where is relevant). Between Plea, shields, penance, Radiances and so on you will be GDC capped to actually use it.

    What i would like to see is actually mass Penance.

    Example:

    Passive effect
    Great Inquisition: Penance deals X% dmg to all enemies in 10yd of the main target. The additional damage done through Greater Inquisition will not count for atonement healing and will not spread SW: P. Ignores CCed targets

    Pros:
    -Dmg is dealt instantly and it makes a big difference
    -penance is used A LOT
    -no build up required
    -the entire spec revolves around the spell, so when tiers and legenderies increase it's power it also increases the AoE effect
    -usable while moving
    -NO FUCKING RAMP-UP REQUIRED ( sorry i'm just fed up with this ramp-up priest thing)
    -also relevant when you use it for healing a target
    -visually awesome ( there is this female lightforged draenei, just outside the second teleporter you activate in Argus, that uses this)
    Last edited by Ashgaan; 2017-12-12 at 11:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Oh hey, it's this thread again.

    Disc spammable or even short cooldown AoE will never be balanced unless it's just some spell like Holy Nova that exists ONLY to deal AoE damage (no atonement transfer) and nothing else. Any other design is going to be dangerous to balance, and they probably don't want to make the spec more complex than it already is/can be by adding one-off exceptions just so people have an easier time doing world quests/old content.

    They already go out of their way to balance AoE-oriented DPS trinkets so as to not be overpowered when used by a Disc priest, even for long cooldown, on-use effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashgaan View Post
    Pros:
    -Dmg is dealt instantly and it makes a big difference
    -penance is used A LOT
    -no build up required
    -the entire spec revolves around the spell, so when tiers and legenderies increase it's power it also increases the AoE effect
    -usable while moving
    -NO FUCKING RAMP-UP REQUIRED ( sorry i'm just fed up with this ramp-up priest thing)
    -also relevant when you use it for healing a target
    -visually awesome ( there is this female lightforged draenei, just outside the second teleporter you activate in Argus, that uses this)
    If you don't like ramp up, play Holy? Why mess with arguably the only truly unique healing style left in the game?

  5. #5
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    spells that don't proc atonement in a spec where all spell damage procs atonement makes no sense.

    and a spell that scales with number of targets will also never be balanced.

    this is why disc aoe isn't a thing

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazzeric View Post
    Oh hey, it's this thread again.

    If you don't like ramp up, play Holy? Why mess with arguably the only truly unique healing style left in the game?

    Please read OPs and my post again, i do not say that the HEALING part should be changed, it's actually perfect the way it is. This is about an idea for Disc AoE DMG. As for Atonement transfer, i did mention that the AoE part of the spell will not get transferred to healing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    spells that don't proc atonement in a spec where all spell damage procs atonement makes no sense.

    and a spell that scales with number of targets will also never be balanced.

    this is why disc aoe isn't a thing

    Disc does not have AoE because Blizz is lazy, if they could tailor certain trinkets to have reduced effect on certain specs, they can make a Spell ID to be ignored by Atonement healing.
    Spell that scales with number of targets not balanced ?? I really hope you thought about the particular case of Disc and dmg transfer to healing (which i already excluded from the spell), otherwise a lot of spells would like to say hello : Holy Nova, Bladestorm/Ravager, earthquake, half the spells from DH, Starfall (heck even Sunfire), arcane explosion, arcane barrage, Ignite mechanic and many more.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    No point in an AoE spell that either :

    1)Would be OP with atonement
    2)Would be useless if it doesn't proc atonement. Even if it proc on only one target, mana cost would make it unused. And if mana cost is too low it will become OP again as the obvious damage choice or will have a long enough CD making the whole thing pointless.

    Disc is a healer, Healers doesn't need to make crazy ammount of DPS. Especially not in AoE and disc is allready well ranked on healer DPS.
    What blizzard should do is nerf the cat rdruid burst.
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  8. #8
    I'd rather have the smite talent changed into one that makes plea deal a small amount of splash damage to all enemies around the target.
    Said splash damage would obviously not cause atonement healing (for balancing reasons), instead it would give some extra healing for only on the target.
    And no, the argument that it somehow "makes no sense" does not apply, otherwise I would expect atonement healing caused by the dot from shadow mend, too. We already do have several spells that are exceptions off how atonement works. One more won't break the spec.
    It wouldn't need to deal competitive damage in current raid content and dungeons either, just something to use in solo content, because having to switch to another spec for something as basic as AoE damage when doing nearly trivial content alone is what really breaks immersion.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2017-12-13 at 11:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashgaan View Post
    (which i already excluded from the spell)
    But they want to be consistent with their legion atonement design (as they have proven time and time again), so they will never implement a damage spell for disc that does not atonement transfer under the current model. Having one-off exceptions to your rule is bad game design. Just imagine the tooltip: "oh btw this doesn't work with your spec's mechanics."

    This is the main argument against a usable AoE damage spell.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazzeric View Post
    But they want to be consistent with their legion atonement design (as they have proven time and time again), so they will never implement a damage spell for disc that does not atonement transfer under the current model. Having one-off exceptions to your rule is bad game design. Just imagine the tooltip: "oh btw this doesn't work with your spec's mechanics."

    This is the main argument against a usable AoE damage spell.
    Except they already have one-off exceptions. Halo and Divine Star deal damage to all enemies hit but only transfer atonement off the first target hit. So the exception is already in the game. It's in talent spells, not baseline spells, but I'd be willing to work with that restriction. In fact I'd be happy with no baseline AoE spell - if only Halo or Divine Star were more usable.

  11. #11
    Let's do a comparison:

    This topic vs a Dead Horse

    GO!

  12. #12
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    I'd rather have the smite talent changed into one that makes plea deal a small amount of splash damage to all enemies around the target.
    Said splash damage would obviously not cause atonement healing (for balancing reasons), instead it would give some extra healing for only on the target.
    And no, the argument that it somehow "makes no sense" does not apply, otherwise I would expect atonement healing caused by the dot from shadow mend, too. We already do have several spells that are exceptions off how atonement works. One more won't break the spec.
    It wouldn't need to deal competitive damage in current raid content and dungeons either, just something to use in solo content, because having to switch to another spec for something as basic as AoE damage when doing nearly trivial content alone is what really breaks immersion.
    disc actually has no spells that don't proc atonement when they deal damage.

    shadow mend completely makes sense since shadow mend is a spell that doesn't deal spell damage, but instead is a burning rush type effect.

    all other sources of spell damage (besides mark of the hidden satyr) in wow procs atonement, why would it make sense for this new AoE DPS spell to cause zero atonement hps? why would this make sense when AoE DPS trinkets proc atonement?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Memento1 View Post
    Except they already have one-off exceptions. Halo and Divine Star deal damage to all enemies hit but only transfer atonement off the first target hit. So the exception is already in the game. It's in talent spells, not baseline spells, but I'd be willing to work with that restriction. In fact I'd be happy with no baseline AoE spell - if only Halo or Divine Star were more usable.
    these spells are also terrible so......????

    the fact that these spells can hit multiple targets makes them impossible to balance. either they're terrible because they don't deal enough damage to be worthwhile to spend mana/gcd's on vs any other spell in the disc toolkit, or they break disc output on bosses with multiple targets.

    don't you see now why it's impossible to balance aoe dps on disc priest? that's why blizzard hasn't tried.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/GrotesqueFrozenOilAsianGlow related twitch clip to demonstrate how op aoe dps can be on disc.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2017-12-16 at 03:14 AM.

  13. #13
    You already have trinkets who does aoe dps. Spaceship does amazing aoe dps for 9 sec every 90 sec. If you need aomething a bit more sustained you got 2 useless talents for it. And OPs suggestion would only work on sustained aoe, why even bother, it would most likely just replace halo or DS anyway, and why choose hps loss over marginal sustained aoe dps

  14. #14
    What would the point of this be? I fail to see why this is useful. We can aoe heal just fine off of a single mob. If you're upset that we have no aoe DAMAGE ability... well.. uh.. why do we need one?

  15. #15
    If you are ok that the AOE DPS does not count for atonement, then why do you think this spec needs AOE DPS in the first place?

    Does that mean you do not think DISC PRIEST is a healer that heals by doing damage, but DISC PRIEST should be a "cleric / mage hybrid". If you really think disc priest is a cleric / mage hybrid and the dev agrees with you, buff the dps however your like, but nerf healing immediately.
    Last edited by gobio; 2017-12-18 at 06:48 AM.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    In my eyes there is just one situation in which I miss a spammable not-targetted aoe spell: old raids.
    Why? 'Cause I'm a lazy guy who likes to do stuff in is main specialization.

    Disc is one of best specs right now, so there is no need for any chance ... especially if it won't ever be used in relevant content.

  17. #17
    ITT people who can't endure the cast time of swapping to Holy specialization to Holy Nova down trash in old raids (????)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazzeric View Post
    ITT people who can't endure the cast time of swapping to Holy specialization to Holy Nova down trash in old raids (????)
    Why does Holy even have HN though? It doesn't help them heal or interact with their healing rotation at all. Do they use it in M+? How can they wrap their brains around switching between damaging and healing?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Healers doesn't need to make crazy ammount of DPS.
    Holy Paladin says hi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazzeric View Post
    ITT people who can't endure the cast time of swapping to Holy specialization to Holy Nova down trash in old raids (????)
    Yeah, fuck class balance, if your spec is shit, don't ask to have it fixed, just play another spec! Problem solved!

    Also nice job moving the goalposts with a very specific scenario.
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    LFR saved raiding
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    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Also nice job moving the goalposts with a very specific scenario.
    And yet it is the only scenario that prompts this thread getting created time and time again, because having an AoE damage spell has just about zero relevance to raiding, and if you are doing world quests as a healer you are already choosing to gimp yourself so why does it matter? Holy Paladins also have AoE damage on a cooldown in Consecration (which, for all intents and purposes may as well be Divine Star, which has a 15 sec cd), but do you see them complaining about having "no AoE"?

    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, fuck class balance, if your spec is shit, don't ask to have it fixed, just play another spec! Problem solved!
    Except, we don't live in a world where disc is even remotely shit, and it's certainly quite okay without an AoE damage spell. Several other classes swap specs to do old content... maybe they should also get an overhaul :thinking:

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