Solution to Disc lack of AOE ?

[Memento1]

the fact that these spells can hit multiple targets makes them impossible to balance. either they're terrible because they don't deal enough damage to be worthwhile to spend mana/gcd's on vs any other spell in the disc toolkit, or they break disc output on bosses with multiple targets.

don't you see now why it's impossible to balance aoe dps on disc priest? that's why blizzard hasn't tried.

You can disagree with me without talking down to me. I do in fact understand why any AoE dps can't transfer atonement. I understand that putting one in that didn't would confuse casuals. I even understand why Blizzard didn't put one in. I can still wish we had mediocre AoE, just to make questing easier. Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.

[Prawnapple]

New class perhaps?

[theburned]

disc actually has no spells that don't proc atonement when they deal damage.

shadow mend completely makes sense since shadow mend is a spell that doesn't deal spell damage, but instead is a burning rush type effect.

all other sources of spell damage (besides mark of the hidden satyr) in wow procs atonement, why would it make sense for this new AoE DPS spell to cause zero atonement hps? why would this make sense when AoE DPS trinkets proc atonement?

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these spells are also terrible so......????

the fact that these spells can hit multiple targets makes them impossible to balance. either they're terrible because they don't deal enough damage to be worthwhile to spend mana/gcd's on vs any other spell in the disc toolkit, or they break disc output on bosses with multiple targets.

don't you see now why it's impossible to balance aoe dps on disc priest? that's why blizzard hasn't tried.

https://clips.twitch.tv/GrotesqueFrozenOilAsianGlow related twitch clip to demonstrate how op aoe dps can be on disc.

Divine star and halo already doesnt proc attonement from more than one target, Why wouldnt replacing divine star with a medium mana cost holy nova which does the same be an issue.

Nice clip xD... yeah aoe dps is OP because someone forgot to add any disc aoe reduction or balance the trinket so it doesnt deal 18m damage on a single target. Turns out when something deals 10x balanced damage its OP?
But yes that trinket is still massive in dungeons because you get those numbers on 10 targets.

Holy nova 1.8% base mana deals damage = smite in a 12yd range, no shield lvl 90 talent replaces DS.
Oh wow this talent certainly more useful than DS and a way to opt for more damage in exchange for healing/cleave/mana.
Other than that surely you buff up the mana cost to 3-5% then balance around being efficient at 10 targets and have all damage apply to attonement, if they can do it with trinkets surely you can balance talents which can have a mana cost aswell


For whoever mentioned old raids, there is no way you cant just swap to holy for this kind of content....

[Razion]

You could have your Pennance cause Holy Novas at the target you heal or damage.
Maybe spreads Pain or Purge if the Pennance Nova hits hostile targets.

Or
Single-target stance and multi-target stance (one button swap) for healing to replace Atonement would be another way to do it.

If Discipline were melee, old Holy Nova would be a good ability for them.

[HottyLGW]

This is a pretty divisive topic I see. My opinion is that a disc priest should not be concerned with aoe in any area of the game outside of world quests. In which case it just plain old sucks being a priest. I play it out like this, world boss is shadow, random rare or single target you outgear just delete it fast in disc, and finally holy holy nova when you need to cull the birds.

[Noradin]

This is a pretty divisive topic I see. My opinion is that a disc priest should not be concerned with aoe in any area of the game outside of world quests. In which case it just plain old sucks being a priest. I play it out like this, world boss is shadow, random rare or single target you outgear just delete it fast in disc, and finally holy holy nova when you need to cull the birds.

Yes, but we really shouldn't need to change specs for worldquests.
It breaks immersion and class fantasy and last time I checked WoW was still called an MMORPG.

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For whoever mentioned old raids, there is no way you cant just swap to holy for this kind of content....

But why should we need to?

[MendUS]

Yes, but we really shouldn't need to change specs for worldquests.
It breaks immersion and class fantasy and last time I checked WoW was still called an MMORPG.

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But why should we need to?

Why should we need to? Blizzard dislikes adding extra abilities in if they aren't needed a majority of the time (i.e. see their previous actions of pruning abilities). Let's say they add an AoE ability that doesn't provide any Atonement healing:

Would we use it raiding? Not really, it doesn't help healing and we have several other abilities that do, making it rather worthless.

Would we use it in dungeons? Maybe for easier dungeons, but for most of what people are running (M+) it's as pointless as it would be for raiding.

Would we use it for World Quests? Sure, it would be nice I guess, but it's more of a want than a need.

Would we use it for clearing old raids? Maybe, before 7.3.5 it would have been more impactful since most non Legion raids were soloed easier than they are now (MoP and above).

Now, assuming that each of these situations is weighted the same would be silly. The game, and every spec, is balanced around raiding, dungeons, and PvP. We can omit PvP since it has it's own talent tree that can greatly tweak how a given spec works. So this leaves us with Dungeons and Raiding... which we wouldn't use this ability in. We'd literally use this ability for maybe 30 minutes to 1 hour a day, if you even do that many world quests...

The point is, Blizzard is highly unlikely given their past history to add in some ability that will get used 10-20% of the time when you could simply press "N > Click Holy" and get said ability for that content.

TLDR: Quit bitching so much and deal with the reality man. Disc isn't getting an AoE dps ability because we don't need one. If it's too hard for you to complete a 2 step process then I really don't know what else to tell you other than tough luck. At one point I was fighting to get an AoE ability but then came to my senses... maybe you can do the same.

[Nurasu]

Why should we need to? Blizzard dislikes adding extra abilities in if they aren't needed a majority of the time (i.e. see their previous actions of pruning abilities). Let's say they add an AoE ability that doesn't provide any Atonement healing:

Would we use it raiding? Not really, it doesn't help healing and we have several other abilities that do, making it rather worthless.

Would we use it in dungeons? Maybe for easier dungeons, but for most of what people are running (M+) it's as pointless as it would be for raiding.

Would we use it for World Quests? Sure, it would be nice I guess, but it's more of a want than a need.

Would we use it for clearing old raids? Maybe, before 7.3.5 it would have been more impactful since most non Legion raids were soloed easier than they are now (MoP and above).

Now, assuming that each of these situations is weighted the same would be silly. The game, and every spec, is balanced around raiding, dungeons, and PvP. We can omit PvP since it has it's own talent tree that can greatly tweak how a given spec works. So this leaves us with Dungeons and Raiding... which we wouldn't use this ability in. We'd literally use this ability for maybe 30 minutes to 1 hour a day, if you even do that many world quests...

The point is, Blizzard is highly unlikely given their past history to add in some ability that will get used 10-20% of the time when you could simply press "N > Click Holy" and get said ability for that content.

TLDR: Quit bitching so much and deal with the reality man. Disc isn't getting an AoE dps ability because we don't need one. If it's too hard for you to complete a 2 step process then I really don't know what else to tell you other than tough luck. At one point I was fighting to get an AoE ability but then came to my senses... maybe you can do the same.

I wish this thread would die again, but I just have to point out how your unnecessarily-long post falls apart when you ask why they added Holy Nova to Holy. Will they use it in dungeons? Maybe sometimes. Will they use it in raids? No. Will it make their lives easier for quest content? Yes. But they could just hit N and switch to Shadow (which still had mind sear)...?

[Deleted]

But they could just hit N and switch to Shadow (which still had mind sear)...?

That requires the enemy to last a bit to even have an effect. SWP needs to be on the target for Sear to activate when Flaying. Once the mobs get low enough and your initial target is dead, you cannot reliably apply SWP on a new target AND get Sear going. The mobs usually die from SWP, making you singletarget kill the remaining enemies. So much easier to just spam Nova.

[Nurasu]

That requires the enemy to last a bit to even have an effect. SWP needs to be on the target for Sear to activate when Flaying. Once the mobs get low enough and your initial target is dead, you cannot reliably apply SWP on a new target AND get Sear going. The mobs usually die from SWP, making you singletarget kill the remaining enemies. So much easier to just spam Nova.

That was not the case when they added HN to Holy as a damage spell.

[MendUS]

I wish this thread would die again, but I just have to point out how your unnecessarily-long post falls apart when you ask why they added Holy Nova to Holy. Will they use it in dungeons? Maybe sometimes. Will they use it in raids? No. Will it make their lives easier for quest content? Yes. But they could just hit N and switch to Shadow (which still had mind sear)...?

Falls apart, right, because I didn't need to mention that Discipline's entire toolkit rotates around dealing damage. I kind of figured that was a given but I guess not. Sorry my post was long, I know your attention span is short. My apologies.

Discipline can:
Multi-dot (quasi-AOE, spamable)
Smite (spamable)
Penance (short CD)
Light's Wrath (long CD)

Holy can:
Holy Nova (spamable)
Smite (spamable)
Holy Fire (has a CD and cannot be used on multiple targets)
HW: Chastise (long-ish CD)

Holy Nova exists so Holy Priests can do solo content without respecing... Discipline can do that as well without Holy Nova because of our toolkit revolving around damage we do. Holy Nova for Disc is a want and not a need... saying otherwise is ignorant. Adding Holy Nova to the list for Disc creates an "imbalance" of damage spells between the two specs and why I am assuming Discipline didn't have Holy Nova in the first place. Discipline can do WQ's just fine and I've never had the urge to respec Holy to use Holy Nova to do anything other than clear old raids. If it's a convenience thing you're after and want to have a spamable AoE so you can tag mobs while doing WQ's, just spec Holy.

You act like it's some major inconvenience to the point it's painful to respec Holy. It's rather comical.

-- Regardless, I'm not replying to this thread anymore. MMOC is a cesspool and not really worth my time.. not quite sure why I stopped by to post in the first place. Best of luck with getting Disc an AoE ability.

[Noradin]

The only comical thing in this thread is you calling other peoples posts "whining".

[theburned]

But why should we need to?

Because soloing old raids is neither a necessity nor a requirement for class balance. And surely you can still complete most of the old raids as disc, you can even do things like Blast furnace, which I dont think many other classes can.

[Supliftz]

i love disc aoe dps and disc aoe dps culture

[Noradin]

Because soloing old raids is neither a necessity nor a requirement for class balance. And surely you can still complete most of the old raids as disc, you can even do things like Blast furnace, which I dont think many other classes can.

Remember that WoW is a MMORPG, not some version of chess.
Balance is not everything there is to it.
For example: Having more than one class available is not a necessity nor a requirement either. Getting rid of all the extras would simplify class balance enormously.

[Supliftz]

i'm not roleplaying as a disc priest if i can't 1 shot mobs inside of old raids :rage:

[Noradin]

i'm not roleplaying as a disc priest if i can't 1 shot mobs inside of old raids :rage:

And that is where the MMO part comes in: There are players other than you.

[theburned]

And that is where the MMO part comes in: There are players other than you.

Exactly there are other players than you, go and do old raids with them, instead of complaining that you dont have the exact same skill sets as them.
I had a guildie ask for a priest in guild to do BRF, because he needed someone to MC mobs on blast furnace.

[Supliftz]

using mmorpg as a reason why classes aren't to do things is a shit reason.

why exactly does disc use dps spells instead of absorbs for healing to begin with ? what about my mmorpg

[Noradin]

Exactly there are other players than you, go and do old raids with them, instead of complaining that you dont have the exact same skill sets as them.
I had a guildie ask for a priest in guild to do BRF, because he needed someone to MC mobs on blast furnace.

I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that the reasons given in this thread why disc shouldn't have an AoE damage spell are lacking.
They come down to the personal preference of some people, nothing more.
At the same time other people would prefer to have some AoE damage spell for disc and did point out that there really is no reason not to have one, all that needs to be done is adjusting the numbers of one talent we already have but which is too clunky with its current CD.