reforms to the republican party

[zenkai]

Democrats have been moving right just as Republicans have. Democrats are still trying to be third way moderates. Which means they have to go further right as the Republicans go further right to stay moderate.

I wish they were left, but they are not. And sure as fuck aren't far left.

They have been moving left, Bill Clinton was a conservative Democrat, but look at Obama, Pelosi, etc , far left

[Xeones]

They have been moving left, Bill Clinton was a conservative Democrat, but look at Obama, Pelosi, etc , far left

In which world?

[Taso]

They have been moving left, Bill Clinton was a conservative Democrat, but look at Obama, Pelosi, etc , far left

I respect your perspective but Democrats really aren’t that left anymore then republicans are to the far right. While factions exist that make it appear as such like independent Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth warren outside of that they are very much center left. Obama and I’ll be honest he is right wing and more so in last term then his first. If you read about the expansion of nsa and the military intervention I would honestly call him a second l.b.jay and much more of the New Democrat branch then a traditional carter like.

[zenkai]

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/o...-far-left.html

AMONG liberals, it’s almost universally assumed that of the two major parties, it’s the Republicans who have become more extreme over the years. That’s a self-flattering but false narrative.

This is not to say the Republican Party hasn’t become a more conservative party. It has. But in the last two decades the Democratic Party has moved substantially further to the left than the Republican Party has shifted to the right. On most major issues the Republican Party hasn’t moved very much from where it was during the Gingrich era in the mid-1990s.

I know you kids were too young to understand how much democrats have shifted in the last 20 years as much of you we're too young to compare.

[Machismo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/o...-far-left.html

AMONG liberals, it’s almost universally assumed that of the two major parties, it’s the Republicans who have become more extreme over the years. That’s a self-flattering but false narrative.

This is not to say the Republican Party hasn’t become a more conservative party. It has. But in the last two decades the Democratic Party has moved substantially further to the left than the Republican Party has shifted to the right. On most major issues the Republican Party hasn’t moved very much from where it was during the Gingrich era in the mid-1990s.

I know you kids were too young to understand how much democrats have shifted in the last 20 years as much of you we're too young to compare.

Once again, that's an opinion piece... so it's still pitting opinions versus opinions.

[satimy]

If Trump pushes for legal weed, I think he would see a big coalition potentially

[zenkai]

Once again, that's an opinion piece... so it's still pitting opinions versus opinions.

Opinion by a political expert over shitposting mmo-champion users, hmm who should I side with...

[Machismo]

Opinion by a political expert over shitposting mmo-champion users, hmm who should I side with...

And yet, the Dems put up Hillary in 2016, someone who is just like her husband. Meanwhile, you have Reagan, who wouldn't been be welcome in the modern GOP.

Stay woke.

[zenkai]

And yet, the Dems put up Hillary in 2016, someone who is just like her husband. Meanwhile, you have Reagan, who wouldn't been be welcome in the modern GOP.

Stay woke.

Hillary is Bill? Hillary from 94 wouldn't have been voted in, you have no idea what you are talking about. Look at old clips of Hillary & Bill, anti Gay Marriage, anti illegal immigrants do you think they would be elected in today's party? Hell Sanders gave hillary a run for his money because he's a liberal socialist, a vote for Hillary in the end was a vote against Trump, it wasn't because they thought Hillary was great. lol kids

[Taso]

Hillary is Bill? Hillary from 94 wouldn't have been voted in, you have no idea what you are talking about. Look at old clips of Hillary & Bill, anti Gay Marriage, anti illegal immigrants do you think they would be elected in today's party? Hell Sanders gave hillary a run for his money because he's a liberal socialist, a vote for Hillary in the end was a vote against Trump, it wasn't because they thought Hillary was great. lol kids

But bare in mind what Congress was in the 1990s . They could easily blame republicans for that position which to a degree bares truth.
I would argue that for republicans to win they should do what regean did in the 80s. Say are you better off now then you were 8 years ago are you better off now then 4 years ago.

[Machismo]

Hillary is Bill? Hillary from 94 wouldn't have been voted in, you have no idea what you are talking about. Look at old clips of Hillary & Bill, anti Gay Marriage, anti illegal immigrants do you think they would be elected in today's party? Hell Sanders gave hillary a run for his money because he's a liberal socialist, a vote for Hillary in the end was a vote against Trump, it wasn't because they thought Hillary was great. lol kids

I didn't say Hillary was bill, I said they have a lot of similarities. The Demos pushed left on social issues like gay marriage. They opted for less government, and more individual liberty. Ironically, that was supposed to be what the GOP supported... I guess not. The GOP went more nationalists, more corporatistic, and shunned the middle and working classes.

Hillary was a terrible candidate, because she's closer to being a neo-conservative than an actual liberal. Obama wasn't even much of a liberal.

Meanwhile, the GOP has decided things like limited government, fiscal responsibility, individual liberty, and the free markets are unacceptable. All they have left... is fear of their base, abortion, guns, and nationalism.

[alexw]

This basically, there is all this talk about Republicans being a dead party and so on and so forth, but they still control both chambers and have presidency in the pocket. Not bad for a party that supposedly needs reforms.

Republicans base is pretty massive, there are more than enough religious and otherwise intolerant groups flocking there and tough policies on immigration are actually popular with your average guy.

They may want to court some minorities and they don't need much, everyone likes to flaunt how 90%of various ethnic groups voted Dems, but they forget there is actually 10% those who voted Republican and all Republicans need is to make that 15%.

The only reason they have this control is because of the innate bias of the system to smaller states, and because of gerrymandering. They are falling further and further behind in terms of the share of the population willing to ever vote for them. As the great boomer die-off gathers pace this trend is going to speed up. Look at the Alabama senate race where Jones overwhelmingly won among voters under 45. Eventually the implicit bias in the system towards republicans will not be enough to save them. They will be relegated to permanent minority status and will have so alienated the future voters whom they will need that there will be no hope of ever coming back. This is why they have to reform. They are not a dead party yet but they are a zombie party. The shuffling corpse of one, that just hasn't fallen to bits yet.

[Taso]

The only reason they have this control is because of the innate bias of the system to smaller states, and because of gerrymandering. They are falling further and further behind in terms of the share of the population willing to ever vote for them. As the great boomer die-off gathers pace this trend is going to speed up. Look at the Alabama senate race where Jones overwhelmingly won among voters under 45. Eventually the implicit bias in the system towards republicans will not be enough to save them. They will be relegated to permanent minority status and will have so alienated the future voters whom they will need that there will be no hope of ever coming back. This is why they have to reform. They are not a dead party yet but they are a zombie party. The shuffling corpse of one, that just hasn't fallen to bits yet.

That’s where my concern lies and you nailed it. If the republicans don’t take more of social aspect I could see a era of 1930s minus economic depression as being heavily democrat. For me I will still vote personally as a republican but my generation won’t if they don’t reform. As for gerrymandering both parties do it at abuse. Their are districts that Literally Democrat safety nets.

[alexw]

That’s where my concern lies and you nailed it. If the republicans don’t take more of social aspect I could see a era of 1930s minus economic depression as being heavily democrat. For me I will still vote personally as a republican but my generation won’t if they don’t reform. As for gerrymandering both parties do it at abuse. Their are districts that Literally Democrat safety nets.

Agreed they both do gerrymandering but currently the overwhelming beneficiaries of it are the republicans. It's why they have such a large seat advantage in many state houses, and in the house of representatives. Its a bulwark but it can be overridden by enough votes.

[Gestopft]

They have been moving left, Bill Clinton was a conservative Democrat, but look at Obama, Pelosi, etc , far left

They've gone a little to the left since the Clinton era, but mostly on social issues. On policy, they are still farther to the right than they were pre-Clinton. Need I remind you that the Nixon healthcare plan was to the left of Obamacare?

[Wyrt]

They have been moving left, Bill Clinton was a conservative Democrat, but look at Obama, Pelosi, etc , far left

No, they aren't.

[mvaliz]

The Democrats aren't really that far to the left.

Yeah, I'm really getting seriously tired of the argument of a) they're super far left or b) they're on the right compared to the rest of the world.

No, they really are not. Just as I'm honestly getting sick of hearing that they're somehow "just as bad" as the Republicans right now. No they are not - not today. Maybe in future decades when Dumbass Dump is tarred and feathered, and all the jackasses abandon the Republicans to try to twist the Democratic name into their image... but not today.

- - - Updated - - -

No, they aren't.

Anything similar to the dreaded "S" word being attached to it apparently translates to "COMMUNIST UPRIZING!" to those... people.

[Shkar]

No, they aren't.

Not to lend credence to the kind of conspiracies you're responding to, but based on this chart they technically are. However, so was the Republican party until 2004 at least. From 1994 to 2004, both parties shifted left by approximately the same amount. From 2004 to 2014 the Democrats moved left by about the same amount, showing a continuation of the trend. The republicans, however, shifted right twice as quickly.

So Democrats, and the population as a whole, at least were shifting left, but the group that really deviates from the pack is the Republicans.

[Gestopft]

Not to lend credence to the kind of conspiracies you're responding to, but based on this chart they technically are. However, so was the Republican party until 2004 at least. From 1994 to 2004, both parties shifted left by approximately the same amount. From 2004 to 2014 the Democrats moved left by about the same amount, showing a continuation of the trend. The republicans, however, shifted right twice as quickly.

So Democrats, and the population as a whole, at least were shifting left, but the group that really deviates from the pack is the Republicans.

I think a lot of this has to do with social issues, though, and not as much economic policy. Socially, new issues arise and old ones are largely settled, or at least simmer down in the public discourse as a consensus is won. Liberals tend to be more open to embracing the new ideas or movements, whereas Conservatives tend to be averse to the change. So while it's sort of true to say that the Democrats are the farthest left they've ever been on social issues, it's more that the hot button culture war topic are always changing.

When we talk about how right-wing the Democrats are, it's more on economic and public policy, and the comparison is really to the New Deal era. The entire country moved to the right, economically, starting in the 70's (and picking up steam in the 80's). Neoliberalism took over the Democratic party too, and while the Progressive wing pulls the party left of where it was in the Clinton era, the party as a whole still isn't back to where they were before New Deal coalition fell apart.

[Draco-Onis]

Not to lend credence to the kind of conspiracies you're responding to, but based on this chart they technically are. However, so was the Republican party until 2004 at least. From 1994 to 2004, both parties shifted left by approximately the same amount. From 2004 to 2014 the Democrats moved left by about the same amount, showing a continuation of the trend. The republicans, however, shifted right twice as quickly.

So Democrats, and the population as a whole, at least were shifting left, but the group that really deviates from the pack is the Republicans.

What the average american thinks and what their party are have never aligned especially democrats who seem to revel in spitting in the face of their base.