If we assume the Russians attacked our election?

[Skroe]

I think you put the home front at tremendous risk if you do that. Realistically what do you think would happen if we drone striked a Russian hacker or shut down the power grid?

Who said anything about a drone strike? I'm talking a man with a gun, in a room, while the hacker is sleeping.
And yes, it is a risk, but a calculated one.
Clearly doing nothing is not the right response.

I know its not that simple, but when was the last time we assassinated people like that in a foreign country?

We do it semi-regularly. The US and Israel arranged for Iranian nuclear scientists to have.... unfortunate automobile accidents... throughout the Bush and Obama years. US paramilitaries are probably responsible for killing a Quuds Force commander in Syria a few years back.

It is not at all unusual, except that we would be doing it against Russia, and not Iran.

I think our best avenue to float building a gas pipeline over to Europe, that would potentially cripple Russia's economy to unsustainable levels.

No. That will make Russia poorer, but it will not punish and deter. We must punish and deter.

The best way to do that is start offing Russian government officials and helpers involved in attacking us.

I would also add that we need to reconsider how many Chinese and Russian students we admit for student visas.

I've been saying this, especially with regard to Chinese Students, since 2004.

I went to one of the best tech schools in the US (and thus the world). I saw it happen. A well intentioned 'diversity' push became an avenue for the university, which did not want to foot the bill for black and Latino underprivileged students, called importing in Singaporean and Chinese Students on the government/wealthy parent's full ride 'diversity'.


We should not let Chinese and Russian students study in this country, period. And Google must be blocked from opening an AI Lab in China. I read that and nearly threw my tablet.

We Americans are *so incredibly stupid* about this shit because we think that the principles and wishes we have for the human race are what Russia and China share. They are not, and are using our open society to advance their interests at our national expense.

It's time to break their arms and legs and remind them that on this planet, there is one superpower, it's neither of them, and we don't share.

- - - Updated - - -

Pick a country in the Middle East. It's not been too long since we tried it.

Also, be cautious of Skroe. His nationalism, which he unironically bashes Trump for, is a facade to try and get a war going in Russia.

I don't want war with Russia. Are you kidding me? If there is ONE national security message I've tried to share since this entire Russia thing started it's how goddamn fucking awful for the US this is.

China is coming for us. Every indication to date has them making the long term moves to push us out, first from the Western Pacific, eventually from Eurasia, and then at last, end the post-World War II geopolitical order. They are America's greatest national security threat. 'The American Dream' and the depraved mockery of it called the Chinese Dream cannot co-exist. Xi Jinping's "harmonious society" is authoritarianism with a happy face.

But China's most dangerous days are around 2030 and after. Well down the road.

My posts, until Trump came onto the scene, were about America preparing for this inevitability. We need to have the military power, the financial wherewithal, and the network of allies to defeat China in every spectrum we can, fifteen years hence, which means we have to create it today.

But this Russia issue, pushes our other adversary, the ex-#2 one, now #1, to the forefront. Which means that we have to run a Gauntlet of North Korea, Iran and Russia over the next decade, before arriving at China. Good luck to us.

We are going to be less prepared and fare weaker because we have to confront Russia, but letting Russia get away with it's attacks on us is simply out of the question.

[PACOX]

1. Why didn’t we stop them
2. Why was the public not told until after Hilary lost
3. Wouldn’t President Obama know it was happening?

Obama warned Congress. McConnell said fuck off.
Public was told multiple times before, during, and after
See #1

[Felya]

It's sad how some people have become so detached from how creatively humans have killed other humans throughout ages, due to drone technology. This damn iphone generation and their damn apps!

We used to walk through 10 feet of snow, for 100 Miles, just to go to school and learn about assassination. These whipper snappers and their drones! Get off my lawns air space!

I’m almost 40 and am all ready to sit on my porch, in my drone rocking chair, with my drone broom! Get off my air space!!

[Molis]

Is this like nobody will ever invent time travel because they would be here by now?

[Dextroden]

Who said anything about a drone strike? I'm talking a man with a gun, in a room, while the hacker is sleeping.
And yes, it is a risk, but a calculated one.
Clearly doing nothing is not the right response.


We do it semi-regularly. The US and Israel arranged for Iranian nuclear scientists to have.... unfortunate automobile accidents... throughout the Bush and Obama years. US paramilitaries are probably responsible for killing a Quuds Force commander in Syria a few years back.

It is not at all unusual, except that we would be doing it against Russia, and not Iran.



No. That will make Russia poorer, but it will not punish and deter. We must punish and deter.

The best way to do that is start offing Russian government officials and helpers involved in attacking us.


I've been saying this, especially with regard to Chinese Students, since 2004.

I went to one of the best tech schools in the US (and thus the world). I saw it happen. A well intentioned 'diversity' push became an avenue for the university, which did not want to foot the bill for black and Latino underprivileged students, called importing in Singaporean and Chinese Students on the government/wealthy parent's full ride 'diversity'.


We should not let Chinese and Russian students study in this country, period. And Google must be blocked from opening an AI Lab in China. I read that and nearly threw my tablet.

We Americans are *so incredibly stupid* about this shit because we think that the principles and wishes we have for the human race are what Russia and China share. They are not, and are using our open society to advance their interests at our national expense.

It's time to break their arms and legs and remind them that on this planet, there is one superpower, it's neither of them, and we don't share.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't want war with Russia. Are you kidding me? If there is ONE national security message I've tried to share since this entire Russia thing started it's how goddamn fucking awful for the US this is.

China is coming for us. Every indication to date has them making the long term moves to push us out, first from the Western Pacific, eventually from Eurasia, and then at last, end the post-World War II geopolitical order. They are America's greatest national security threat. 'The American Dream' and the depraved mockery of it called the Chinese Dream cannot co-exist. Xi Jinping's "harmonious society" is authoritarianism with a happy face.

But China's most dangerous days are around 2030 and after. Well down the road.

My posts, until Trump came onto the scene, were about America preparing for this inevitability. We need to have the military power, the financial wherewithal, and the network of allies to defeat China in every spectrum we can, fifteen years hence, which means we have to create it today.

But this Russia issue, pushes our other adversary, the ex-#2 one, now #1, to the forefront. Which means that we have to run a Gauntlet of North Korea, Iran and Russia over the next decade, before arriving at China. Good luck to us.

We are going to be less prepared and fare weaker because we have to confront Russia, but letting Russia get away with it's attacks on us is simply out of the question.

There it is again. Confront Russia. Number one enemy. What I'm supposed to think? You want more sanctions? Because that did a good job of stopping this "attack" from happening. Plus, charts about how we would neuter their nuclear capacity in a first strike doesn't give me faith you don't want to be Napoleon and think we'll storm Russia.

[unfilteredJW]

One day Dexo will read what a person wrote rather than what they want what they wrote to say.

[Taso]

Hindsight is 20/20.
I would still wait for the full results before tossing the hat anyhow.

[Mormolyce]

2. Why was the public not told until after Hilary lost

Just going to address this one:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/...ector-national

Release Date: October 7, 2016 - one month before the election.

And that's the official joint statement, there had been talk of it in the news for months before that.

Did you conveniently forget? Blanket news coverage just slipped out of your mind? How long ago 2016 was...

[Deleted]

Where is the official declaration

What official declaration? All i need is personal bias.

[Keeponrage]

It will send a message: none of you are safe.

we know it for ages already. With your terrorist acts you will only disillusion some elves (that are minority anyway) in here who still thinks that West is our friend.

[Moralgy]

It was announced before the election results... it just got called fake news by people like you, OP.

[Deja Thoris]

Satimy, the information is all out there, including the responses to it.

You are just willfully blind to the truth. It's a fucking travesty that people can pretend to be so dumb when the information is literally at your fingertips. It's partisanship and willful ignorance over reality. You and your ilk are sheeple.

[caervek]

The thing I find weird about the whole Russia attacking US election conspiracy theory is:

1: If by "attacking" people mean paying for advertising in US media that favoured their preferred candidate, then EVERY developed nation on the planet "attacked" the US election, just like the USA has "attacked" every election on the planet for like a century lol. This isn't an attack it's a normal election.

2: If by "attacking" people mean that the DNC hack might have been orchestrated or paid for by Russia, then that is an attack, but an attack on the DNC not the US election. I mean all the hackers did is leak the DNCs own skeletons out of the closet, it was the DNC who damaged themselves.

Most odd.

[Deleted]

China is coming for us. Every indication to date has them making the long term moves to push us out, first from the Western Pacific, eventually from Eurasia, and then at last, end the post-World War II geopolitical order.

Really hope they'll get you good, so that you and your ilk get thrown off of your "we're above all others" attitude and land face down in the mud.

[Machismo]

The thing I find weird about the whole Russia attacking US election conspiracy theory is:

1: If by "attacking" people mean paying for advertising in US media that favoured their preferred candidate, then EVERY developed nation on the planet "attacked" the US election, just like the USA has "attacked" every election on the planet for like a century lol. This isn't an attack it's a normal election.

2: If by "attacking" people mean that the DNC hack might have been orchestrated or paid for by Russia, then that is an attack, but an attack on the DNC not the US election. I mean all the hackers did is leak the DNCs own skeletons out of the closet, it was the DNC who damaged themselves.

Most odd.

You forgot the constant pushing of fake news, that cannot be understated. The design was simple, to undermine one party, and get the other party to win. That is undermining the election process, and that makes it a designed attack on the election itself.

[Deleted]

You forgot the constant pushing of fake news, that cannot be understated. The design was simple, to undermine one party, and get the other party to win. That is undermining the election process, and that makes it a designed attack on the election itself.

Spreading of fake news isn't an attack, no matter how you look at it. It's people's fault if they believe what they're being told.
People spread "fake news" all the time on a small scale, for example by spreading lies about their ex's, in order to make them lose all their friends, and it's not even ilegal.

[Skroe]

Really hope they'll get you good, so that you and your ilk get thrown off of your "we're above all others" attitude and land face down in the mud.

I'll say it again. The most disastrous decade(ish) in American security history was the '1950s', broadly stretching from 1949 to 1961. The US went from far away the world's most powerful country with a nuclear weapons monopoly, to easily it's second most powerful, on the retreat almost everywhere and nearly evicted from Eurasia.

Fast forward 30 years, and the Soviet Union was dead and the US stood alone.

China will certainly wrack up victories in their fight against us, just as the Soviet Union did. In the end, it won't save them any more than the USSR, because China, like the Soviet Union is built on a mountain of lies and compromises, and the United States and the free world, is not.

That is not a statement of faith. That is a statement of fact. When the US fucks up, it course corrects. Sometimes slow. Oftentimes halting. But it corrects. The '1950s' lead to course correction. The Soviet Union made great hay of the Civil rights era, but what was that, but a course correction for 90 years of societal failure son our part? The openness of our system, our democratic process gives us extraordinary resilience and regenerative powers. We change for the better, by openly confronting our failures. This is how you build real strength.

Authoritarian regimes do not. Responsibility is never had, except to add more items to the mountains of lies. Peoples are never able to rectify the immense contradictions to their political and economic systems. Authoritarian regimes must first defend their existence from their own people and would be challengers to their monopoly on power. They run defense on two fronts. We free peoples do not.

And that is why China will lose, and Russia will ALWAYS lose. America and the free world's political process allows it to iterate through potential solutions in the form of elections and a legitimate political process that sees power moves into the hands of those given a chance to wield it with wisdom and effectiveness. Absent that, our authoritarian adversaries, for the grand show they put on, only ever drive up the tab of failures and grievances that eventually comes due. They only ever ossify.

Betting against America in the long term, now and forever, always remains the loser's bet.

So hope all you like. But in the end, the free world is in every way better, especially morally, than the unfree.

[Machismo]

Spreading of fake news isn't an attack, no matter how you look at it. It's people's fault if they believe what they're being told.
People spread "fake news" all the time on a small scale, for example by spreading lies about their ex's, in order to make them lose all their friends, and it's not even ilegal.

Yes, yes it is. Wars and rebellions have been started over it on multiple occasions.

[Deleted]

Betting against America in the long term, now and forever, always remains the loser's bet.

HAHAHAHHAAHA, such arrogance led to the demise of Rome, Mongolia and many others. Don't even bother trying to bring in the Byzantine argument. They all thought they'd last forever.

I highly doubt you'll even last 300 years. Enjoy that 250th anniversary, it will be very likely the last big one.

[Deja Thoris]

Spreading of fake news isn't an attack, no matter how you look at it. It's people's fault if they believe what they're being told.
People spread "fake news" all the time on a small scale, for example by spreading lies about their ex's, in order to make them lose all their friends, and it's not even ilegal.

Thats such zero dimensional simpleton thinking. Par for the course for you.

The course of history has been altered by what happened. USA withdrawing from the Paris accord and a thousand other examples. Your response? "Wurble wurble". Go post your thoughts on the teletubbies or something, this level of discourse is beyond you.